My sorta plan currently is to make almost everything parents and subpages to take advantage of the site map and built in subpage lists. Pages related to a given topic would be Topic/X. Example: Judging/JudgingGuidelines
I haven't really gotten started on moving stuff around yet, mainly because updating links is kinda a pain but it's definitely something to keep in mind.
This has been on my mind for a while. I have a PR for a redirect module which works but is badly implemented. Redirects will allow moving existing pages without breaking any links on other websites that we can't change.
More subpages may or may not be the best way forward. Wikipedia used to use them in the main article space but no longer do. There's a good explanation here. For a (fictitious) TASVideos example, the BK2 article could be classed as "Emulators/BizHawk/BK2", or "Emulators/MovieFormats/BK2". Neither of these are very easy to remember and you'd want "BK2" to redirect to the proper page.
Alternatively, you could call the article "BK2", and have it in categories "BizHawk" and "Movie Formats".
I don't suppose we have the manpower to implement a category system at the moment, but it's something to consider before diving head-first into subpages.
Great job on that page! I'm probably not the only one who's been meaning to update those for months and never got around to it.
I haven't looked through all your examples yet, but I agree that Wiki: DesyncHelp and Wiki: DesyncHelpTAS should be merged in a sensible way.
Randomno wrote:
I don't suppose we have the manpower to implement a category system at the moment, but it's something to consider before diving head-first into subpages.
We can start with moving eligible things to subpages first, since the system's already implemented, and skip over anything that could be better represented by a future category system. Looking at the site map, Wiki: AdvancedLuckManipulation could be a subpage of Wiki: TASingGuide (where AdvancedTools already is). Maybe TASingGuide could become an actual online course combining many stray pages, organized from beginner to expert skill level, and adding additional text (and a "Hello World" TAS?) to tie it all together.
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11492
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
CoolKirby wrote:
Looking at the site map, Wiki: AdvancedLuckManipulation could be a subpage of Wiki: TASingGuide (where AdvancedTools already is). Maybe TASingGuide could become an actual online course combining many stray pages, organized from beginner to expert skill level, and adding additional text (and a "Hello World" TAS?) to tie it all together.
Sounds good!
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Does anyone else find there to be poor contrast on dark mode between the background and foreground colors of teletype text? Check out Wiki: GameResources/NES/WizardsAndWarriors3 or Wiki: TextFormattingRules#Emphasis as examples. Pink on dark grey doesn't stand out well, IMO. It's OK under light mode, but the site defaults to dark.
Does anyone else find there to be poor contrast on dark mode between the background and foreground colors of teletype text? Check out Wiki: GameResources/NES/WizardsAndWarriors3 or Wiki: TextFormattingRules#Emphasis as examples. Pink on dark grey doesn't stand out well, IMO. It's OK under light mode, but the site defaults to dark.
It fails contrast check. The pink is a Bootstrap default.
Thanks Randomno for compiling these lists. Worth noting however that these changes can only be performed by judges or other staff. Editors cannot modify submissions (except for catalog changes).
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 2822
Location: Northern California
I'm going to start turning my attention to modernizing some of the outdated pages, particularly the ones that tend to get a lot of hits and could lead to a lot of misconceptions. Since modernization efforts are almost always going to lead to complete page rewrites, I've set up a "Legacy Pages" hub to archive the original versions of anything that gets fully rewritten so they can be used as reference points in case any important information gets lost in the rewriting process.
I started with rewriting Wiki: WelcomeToTASVideos, which should hopefully better reflect how we currently operate. Let me know ASAP if anything can be improved/added/changed: Given that this is one of the first pages new users are likely to see, it's extremely important to me that it's as good as it possibly can be.
TASvideos Admin and acting Senior Judge 💙 Currently unable to dedicate a lot of time to the site, taking care of family.
Now infrequently posting on BlueskywarmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
I started with rewriting Wiki: WelcomeToTASVideos, which should hopefully better reflect how we currently operate. Let me know ASAP if anything can be improved/added/changed: Given that this is one of the first pages new users are likely to see, it's extremely important to me that it's as good as it possibly can be.
As far as I can see, there's no mention of the Discord server. So perhaps under the Wiki: WelcomeToTASVideos#WhatIsTasvideos section, add a link and a brief description of what exists there?
Also, I noticed the introduction video is 11 years old now, and the image quality is quite low. Are there any other videos that might better show off TASing in the last decade?
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 2822
Location: Northern California
Bigbass wrote:
Samsara wrote:
I started with rewriting Wiki: WelcomeToTASVideos, which should hopefully better reflect how we currently operate. Let me know ASAP if anything can be improved/added/changed: Given that this is one of the first pages new users are likely to see, it's extremely important to me that it's as good as it possibly can be.
As far as I can see, there's no mention of the Discord server. So perhaps under the Wiki: WelcomeToTASVideos#WhatIsTasvideos section, add a link and a brief description of what exists there?
Fair point, added!
Bigbass wrote:
Also, I noticed the introduction video is 11 years old now, and the image quality is quite low. Are there any other videos that might better show off TASing in the last decade?
We've had a couple offers from people wanting to remake that video, but no results as of yet. As soon as something new and good pops up, it'll replace the current one.
TASvideos Admin and acting Senior Judge 💙 Currently unable to dedicate a lot of time to the site, taking care of family.
Now infrequently posting on BlueskywarmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
Going to elaborate on the paragraph I brought up before. This is not to say I think it must be changed.
TASes are produced in emulators or other deterministic frameworks that let their creators have complete control over the play environment. For example, TASers can slow the game down as much as they want, save and load at any time to remove mistakes, and at times even directly access and change the game's code by only using controller input.
The first two items are tools to make TASes (frame advance and savestates), the third is more of a consequence of those tools (ACE). A more fitting option might be viewing the game's memory (RAM watch).
While not ambiguous, the consequences of this being misunderstood are fairly large, if it gets incorrectly reiterated elsewhere online, implying that ROM hacking is allowed.
Even if not in that section, ACE is definitely worth a mention on the intro page. On a more technical note, I don't think ACE is really modifying the game's code (i.e. the ROM)? Rather making the game execute code from RAM.
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11492
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
Randomno wrote:
TASes are produced in emulators or other deterministic frameworks that let their creators have complete control over the play environment. For example, TASers can slow the game down as much as they want, save and load at any time to remove mistakes, and at times even directly access and change the game's code by only using controller input.
The first two items are tools to make TASes (frame advance and savestates), the third is more of a consequence of those tools (ACE). A more fitting option might be viewing the game's memory (RAM watch).
While not ambiguous, the consequences of this being misunderstood are fairly large, if it gets incorrectly reiterated elsewhere online, implying that ROM hacking is allowed.
Even if not in that section, ACE is definitely worth a mention on the intro page. On a more technical note, I don't think ACE is really modifying the game's code (i.e. the ROM)? Rather making the game execute code from RAM.
Agreed, the first 2 items are definitely examples of tools usage, and fiddling with game code via controller input is not a TAS tool, it's a result of tool usage. It's also correct that you can't change game code through controller input because it's read-only memory (ROM).
Tools we use that fiddle with game memory are disassembly/decompilation, and sometimes memory poking to see how the game would behave if a certain thing happens (and then we decide if we even want to grind for such an event). It's important to make it clear that games are unmodified when a movie is replayed.
It would be better to list ACE in a different section, among examples of movie features (which we have tags for).
a database of game resources for those who wish to learn
What if we link Wiki: Games/List here instead, for an all-encompassing database (which contains links to game resources and more)?
Suggestion for the Why do we do this? section:
I think a huge part of why this hobby is thriving is because it involves a huge variety of spheres, so nobody feels limited:
taste for creativity (entertaining movies, innovative movie goals and TAS tools)
working with people on various levels (co-operative TASing, inspiring and teaching newcomers, designing policies upon consensus)
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Emulator Coder, Site Developer, Site Owner, Expert player
(3575)
Joined: 11/3/2004
Posts: 4754
Location: Tennessee
Bigbass wrote:
Thanks Randomno for compiling these lists. Worth noting however that these changes can only be performed by judges or other staff. Editors cannot modify submissions (except for catalog changes).
Some of these issues, like wrong judges, even staff can't do. They are data issues from migrating the old (and bad) data. I'll fix them direclty in the database
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11492
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
The current version of the page looks good, but I discovered these 2 pages that also answer newcomer questions, so we may want to reorganize things a little bit so it's not 3 separate FAQ pages:
Wiki: FAQ/SiteWiki: FAQ/TASing
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 2822
Location: Northern California
I've got a huge refactor draft in progress that I'll open up to more public discussion once I get more of it worked out, but I made a separate page for some restructuring I'd like to do sooner rather than later.
This is all the stuff I'd like to start doing tonight. If anyone has any objections to these changes being made, you have about two hours from the time of this post to make your case before I start working.
EDIT: Aw hell, it's started. I'll finish the rest of the stuff on the Proposals page tomorrow and post my draft as well once I clean it up a bit.
TASvideos Admin and acting Senior Judge 💙 Currently unable to dedicate a lot of time to the site, taking care of family.
Now infrequently posting on BlueskywarmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11492
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
Merge in MoviesToObsoleteFrom2004 and MoviesToObsoleteFrom2005 and expand it to other years
Maybe anything more than a decade old? Just 2000s publications?
Merge in Bounties
These don't get made or fulfilled often enough to keep a top level page dedicated to them.
Merge in SDARunsWithoutAPublishedTAS
Yup. Just makes sense.
I'd make those subpages for ListOfIdeas. Old unobsoleted pubs could be all on one subpage, split by year and put into tabs.
Page Merging/Combining
Agreed.
OtherEmulators moved to EmulatorResources/Other
This might incentivize people to fill in potential emulators that we don't currently support.
I'm not quite convinced we need to have docs on emulators that have little to no chance (or reason) to be added proper TAS tools and site parser.
Wiki Restructuring - Top Level Page Deletion
I don't have an opinion.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 2822
Location: Northern California
feos wrote:
OtherEmulators moved to EmulatorResources/Other
This might incentivize people to fill in potential emulators that we don't currently support.
I'm not quite convinced we need to have docs on emulators that have little to no chance (or reason) to be added proper TAS tools and site parser.
This would be specifically for emulators we may support in the future: PCSX2, Ryujinx, Yuzu, stuff that's still actively being worked on and either already have or could implement TAS tools. We don't need to keep the Nintendulator info at all, but I do think we should have a defined place for emulators we don't but could support.
TASvideos Admin and acting Senior Judge 💙 Currently unable to dedicate a lot of time to the site, taking care of family.
Now infrequently posting on BlueskywarmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
Published TASes: #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10, #11, #12Please consider voting for me as Rookie TASer Of 2023 - Voting is in December 2023My rule is quality TASes over quantity TASes... unless I'm bored.
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11492
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
Samsara wrote:
This would be specifically for emulators we may support in the future: PCSX2, Ryujinx, Yuzu, stuff that's still actively being worked on and either already have or could implement TAS tools. We don't need to keep the Nintendulator info at all, but I do think we should have a defined place for emulators we don't but could support.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Joined: 8/30/2020
Posts: 110
Location: Sydney, Australia
I should let everyone know that I've started on a rewrite of Wiki: BizHawk. I only intend to keep a couple of the subpages, but I'm not clear how those work with the move to Wiki: LegacyPages, so I'd appreciate it if someone could handle the backup for me. (Also can the page title be fixed or still no? edit: It seems a page .../BizHawk will be titled "Biz Hawk" so I'll take that as a no. "Lib TAS" is also wrong.)
I contribute to BizHawk as Linux/cross-platform lead, testing and automation lead, and UI designer. This year, I'm experimenting with streaming BizHawk development on Twitch. nope
Links to find me elsewhere and to some of my side projects are on my personal site. I will respond on Discord faster than to PMs on this site.
Hey look buddy, I'm an engineer. That means I solve problems. Not problems like "What is software," because that would fall within the purview of your conundrums of philosophy. I solve practical problems. For instance, how am I gonna stop some high-wattage thread-ripping monster of a CPU dead in its tracks? The answer: use code. And if that don't work? Use more code.
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11492
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
YoshiRulz wrote:
I only intend to keep a couple of the subpages
Which ones?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Boy howdy, I'm so much more glad we have a top-level page dedicated to three emulators we haven't thought about since the late 2000s, then.
I honestly forgot we had that Potential Emulators page. Thanks both for reminding me of it and giving everyone a valid, live reason for why this restructure project is necessary!
I've gone ahead and done the less intensive part of updating Wiki: ListOfIdeas, i.e adding everything but the contents of the wishlist threads. I'll deal with the subpages in the near future (which will probably just be a lot of deletion). The Bounties and SDARunsWithoutAPublishedTAS pages will be deleted soon.
At the moment, I'm cleaning up my full draft of the restructuring project. I'll post it when it's presentable, but in the meantime, Wiki: HomePages/Samsara/Proposals is still there holding what the next plans are.
TASvideos Admin and acting Senior Judge 💙 Currently unable to dedicate a lot of time to the site, taking care of family.
Now infrequently posting on BlueskywarmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
I contribute to BizHawk as Linux/cross-platform lead, testing and automation lead, and UI designer. This year, I'm experimenting with streaming BizHawk development on Twitch. nope
Links to find me elsewhere and to some of my side projects are on my personal site. I will respond on Discord faster than to PMs on this site.
Hey look buddy, I'm an engineer. That means I solve problems. Not problems like "What is software," because that would fall within the purview of your conundrums of philosophy. I solve practical problems. For instance, how am I gonna stop some high-wattage thread-ripping monster of a CPU dead in its tracks? The answer: use code. And if that don't work? Use more code.
