Posted: 10/12/2021 12:29 AM
Post subject: Merging SGB platform into GB
Quote
CoolKirby
Editor, Experienced player (570)
Joined: 11/8/2010
Posts: 4038
Exotic platforms TASer of 2014 NES TAS of 2013
Currently we publish GB movies made in GBC or GBA mode under the GB platform. This makes sense as they are still GB/DMG games, despite being run on a newer console with some hardware differences. I think we should publish SGB runs under the GB platform as well. These are also original GB games, only with added HLE functions to appear as they would on a Super Game Boy. Besides this, having SGB separate causes confusion with duplicate Game entries, namely for the following games:
  • Castlevania Legends (GB, SGB)
  • Crayon Shin-Chan 4 (GB, SGB)
  • Daffy Duck: The Marvin Missions (GB, SGB)
  • Donkey Kong (GB, SGB)
  • Donkey Kong Land 2 (GB, SGB)
  • Kirby's Dream Land 2 (GB, SGB)
  • Mega Man V (GB, SGB)
  • Pocket Monsters Green (GB, SGB)
  • Pokémon Blue (GB, SGB)
  • Pokémon Red (GB, SGB)
Each of these is a single game on a single cartridge, but with two distinct game entries. This confuses visitors to the site, bloats the Game Select list, and wastes Game entries that could be repurposed as other Games. It would be more simple and sensible to merge each SGB entry into its GB counterpart. The rest of the SGB games could also be moved over with a simple platform ID change: Donkey Kong Land III, Power Rangers: The Movie, Mole Mania, Tetris Blast, Ultraman Ball, and Wario Land II. This wouldn't change the acceptability or visibility of these runs. Encodes for the seven currently published SGB runs would not need to change, as they do not include "SGB" in the text printed on the video by the publisher. Once the platform ID is updated to i.e. "GB Mole Mania", any TVC YouTube video titles will update as well. Now is a good time to make such a change, as the site redesign is underway, and there's a submission on the Workbench aiming to clarify rules on SGB runs. Thoughts?
Posted: 3/19/2022 10:11 AM
(Edited: 3/19/2022 10:12 AM)
Quote
Fortranm
He/Him
Editor, Experienced player (879)
Joined: 10/19/2013
Posts: 1122
https://github.com/TASVideos/tasvideos/pull/1125 There was recently an attempt to implement code changes on the site that would parse all future SGB submissions to have the label GB instead. It was merged at one point but reverted because a formal consensus on the matter hasn't been reached. Regarding this change itself, there are two questions that need to be answered IMO: 1. Are all currently published SGB movies better label as GB instead of SGB? The exact line before GB and SGB labels can be up to debate later but all of those VBA ones literally couldn't have access to SNES functionality. 2. Is it still necessary to actively discourage people from doing GB movies in SGB mode even if it’s on the latest cores on Bizhawk? The initial reason from a decade ago, if I understood correctly, was that VBA was trash on this regard and BizHawk didn't have up-to-standard SGB emulation either. The latter is no longer true. If your answer to 1 is Yes and to 2 is No, then that commit most likely makes things better based on your stance. Also keep in mind that even if we decide to automatically parse everything SGB related as SGB, there will still need to be site code changes because BizHawk bSNES submissions, the ones that actually can utilize SNES hardware in some way, would currently be parsed as SNES.
Posted: 3/20/2022 5:54 AM
Quote
CoolKirby
Editor, Experienced player (570)
Joined: 11/8/2010
Posts: 4038
Exotic platforms TASer of 2014 NES TAS of 2013
Thank you for laying the groundwork with your pull request. There's definitely been a lot more information available about SGB since you and I pushed the issue on Discord, thanks to knowledgeable people like CasualPokePlayer and TiKevin83 coming forward. Discussion is exactly what I wanted when I made this topic, so I'm happy it's happening. With that new info in mind, I would say Yes to 1 and No to 2. The current VBA runs were my initial concern, as like you said they are only SGB by its broadest definition. Due to the improvements in SGB emulation, I think the accessory has a lot to offer that hasn't been explored yet, so it should still be accepted here. In my opinion, runs should only be marked SGB if they use features involving SNES hardware like multiplayer mode in Bomberman GB. But as you've said, where to draw the line is for the community to decide.
Posted: 4/25/2022 5:15 AM
Quote
TiKevin83
He/Him
Ambassador, Moderator, Site Developer, Player (155)
Joined: 3/17/2018
Posts: 358
Location: Holland, MI
Rookie of 2018 Gameboy TASer of 2018 Gameboy TAS of 2018
I started a poll for the first question. After that poll runs we can gauge how we want to move forward with the second question.
Posted: 4/25/2022 5:27 PM
Quote
feos
Site Admin, Skilled player (1255)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11492
Location: Lake Char­gogg­a­gogg­man­chaugg­a­gogg­chau­bun­a­gung­a­maugg
NES TAS of 2011
With other meta-GB modes we don't specify the mode as a platform, even if it's emulated to run inside GBA or GameCube, we only specify the game type. Making this mode an exception may need some good reasoning. I think we can say a game is targeting SGB explicitly if it doesn't run (or isn't playable) on regular GB. If it runs fine without the SNES, changing the platform to SGB when the movie uses the SNES may be desired by some people, but I'm not sure.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Posted: 5/17/2022 8:15 PM
(Edited: 5/17/2022 8:15 PM)
Quote
Fortranm
He/Him
Editor, Experienced player (879)
Joined: 10/19/2013
Posts: 1122
The poll has been open for some time. Would it be reasonable for a decision to be made at this point? From what I heard, there are changes being made to the way a publication is linked to a system, but as long as the title display format is kept the same for the time being, a decision on this would still be relevant IMO.
Posted: 7/5/2023 7:45 PM
Quote
Randomno
Editor, Active player (459)
Joined: 2/11/2018
Posts: 240
Flash TASer of 2023 N64/DS TASer of 2021
Fortranm wrote:
Regarding this change itself, there are two questions that need to be answered IMO: 1. Are all currently published SGB movies better label as GB instead of SGB? The exact line before GB and SGB labels can be up to debate later but all of those VBA ones literally couldn't have access to SNES functionality.
TiKevin83 wrote:
I started a poll for the first question. After that poll runs we can gauge how we want to move forward with the second question.
The Poll wrote:
How should game entries with SGB Support be labeled?
Aren't these different questions? Game entries are not tied to a system anymore and the separate SGB entries have been deleted. The publications are still listed as SGB.