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Posted: 1/5/2008 2:40 PM
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pirate_sephiroth
Active player (315)
Joined: 2/28/2006
Posts: 2275
Location: Milky Way -> Earth -> Brazil
New systems TAS of 2009
Yeah... that might be the case... The queen wasn't there when I reached its room.
"Genuine self-esteem, however, consists not of causeless feelings, but of certain knowledge about yourself. It rests on the conviction that you — by your choices, effort and actions — have made yourself into the kind of person able to deal with reality. It is the conviction — based on the evidence of your own volitional functioning — that you are fundamentally able to succeed in life and, therefore, are deserving of that success." - Onkar Ghate
Bisqwit wrote:
Drama, too long, didn't read, lol.
Posted: 1/9/2008 10:38 PM
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Ferret_Warlord
Skilled player (1416)
Joined: 10/27/2004
Posts: 1978
Location: Making an escape
Alright, demo has been updated. It's three minutes longer, but in the course of 8 unoptimized minutes, I grab 8 items and nail 8 'troids. Obviously some better missile management is in order to prevent that awkward approach to the spring ball, but that will be addressed in the final version. Enjoy!
A hundred years from now, they will gaze upon my work and marvel at my skills but never know my name. And that will be good enough for me.
Posted: 1/10/2008 11:15 AM
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LagDotCom
Joined: 3/7/2006
Posts: 720
Location: UK
I did a LOT of testing on how the ending works. I am fairly sure I managed to get the Queen to appear when bypassing the +8 trigger, but I am uncertain if the 'correct' ship was there at the end. Still, secret worlding through the game and killing metroids embedded in walls will make an entertaining demo as it is.
Voted NO for NO reason
Posted: 1/10/2008 3:25 PM
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evilchen
Joined: 6/9/2006
Posts: 614
Location: Mettmann
demo host is down :(!
https://www.youtube.com/user/armitageyt
Posted: 1/10/2008 4:21 PM
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Ferret_Warlord
Skilled player (1416)
Joined: 10/27/2004
Posts: 1978
Location: Making an escape
LagDotCom wrote:
I am fairly sure I managed to get the Queen to appear when bypassing the +8 trigger
How'd you manage that, do you remember?
A hundred years from now, they will gaze upon my work and marvel at my skills but never know my name. And that will be good enough for me.
Posted: 1/10/2008 7:44 PM
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LagDotCom
Joined: 3/7/2006
Posts: 720
Location: UK
All my testing savestates and vbming are sadly, on a non-working computer.
Voted NO for NO reason
Posted: 2/26/2008 1:53 AM
(Edited: 2/26/2008 10:13 PM)
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Ferret_Warlord
Skilled player (1416)
Joined: 10/27/2004
Posts: 1978
Location: Making an escape
Glitch demo Youtube'd for anyone who cares.
A hundred years from now, they will gaze upon my work and marvel at my skills but never know my name. And that will be good enough for me.
Posted: 2/26/2008 2:13 AM
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mmbossman
Experienced player (828)
Joined: 11/18/2006
Posts: 2426
Location: Back where I belong
GBx TAS of 2008
Ferret Warlord wrote:
Glitch demo Yutube'd for anyone who cares.
I'd heard mention of the select glitch (or gltich as you call it), but had never seen it in action before. That certainly produces some screwy results, thanks Ferret.
Living Well Is The Best Revenge My Personal Page
Posted: 2/27/2008 11:10 PM
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Ferret_Warlord
Skilled player (1416)
Joined: 10/27/2004
Posts: 1978
Location: Making an escape
I just did some looking into of the queen's chamber, hereafter referred to as the throne room. There are three different throne rooms occupying the game's memory: pre-battle, in-battle, and post-battle. The pre-battle room is where you go if you try entering the standard way without having killed all the metroids. Looks normal, except there's some of those diamond shaped blocks the baby 'troid eats where the queen should be. In-battle is where you go if you beat all the metroids and enter the normal way, and contains the queen. Entering the abnormal way (AKA warping) without killing all the metroids renders the queens immobile, so no fighting there. Post-battle is where Samus automatically goes upon the queen's defeat. Players don't notice a transition. The in-battle room has some interesting physics. Try the leave through any side and it all always try to dump Samus in the same spot: where she'd appear if you left normally. This can get quite weird if you leave through the other sides, resulting in some bizarre scrolling and even entering a secret world. I'll do some further testing tonight to see if I can get the queen active in the in-battle room through abnormal means. After all, you weren't meant to fight the regulars until the very end! Edit: Well, darn it. Just ran some tests on it and it seems that unless I decompile the code and learn assembly real quick like to see for myself what the exact terms and conditions are to get her to come out, I'm going to have to destroy all metroids after all. :/ Oh well. The route I have planned goes up to 20 metroids, so it shouldn't be so bad after all.
A hundred years from now, they will gaze upon my work and marvel at my skills but never know my name. And that will be good enough for me.
Posted: 3/7/2008 7:49 PM
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pirate_sephiroth
Active player (315)
Joined: 2/28/2006
Posts: 2275
Location: Milky Way -> Earth -> Brazil
New systems TAS of 2009
When you get there via warps, the queen isn't there. You should find a way to activate the ship in the end instead...
"Genuine self-esteem, however, consists not of causeless feelings, but of certain knowledge about yourself. It rests on the conviction that you — by your choices, effort and actions — have made yourself into the kind of person able to deal with reality. It is the conviction — based on the evidence of your own volitional functioning — that you are fundamentally able to succeed in life and, therefore, are deserving of that success." - Onkar Ghate
Bisqwit wrote:
Drama, too long, didn't read, lol.
Posted: 3/7/2008 10:23 PM
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Ferret_Warlord
Skilled player (1416)
Joined: 10/27/2004
Posts: 1978
Location: Making an escape
I just ran some tests as per your idea. No dice. The only thing I haven't tested is manipulating the counter to be 0 when doing all this stuff, but someone over at M2k2 reported that it doesn't have any effect. So still, metroid genocide. Oh well. In other news, running these tests on the ship has revealed that the room with egg is actually divided between two rooms in the ROM. One for approaching the final ruins, the other for leaving them. Useless, yes, but interesting nonetheless. Question about the two runs posted: Do either of them use a glitch that allows them to walk on spikes or walk through enemies without losing too much momentum? I haven't watched them yet, so I wouldn't know.
A hundred years from now, they will gaze upon my work and marvel at my skills but never know my name. And that will be good enough for me.
Posted: 3/8/2008 12:58 AM
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evilchen
Joined: 6/9/2006
Posts: 614
Location: Mettmann
i love your youtube video ferret it really looks awesome and crazy!! good luck for you will need it :D(i guess)
https://www.youtube.com/user/armitageyt
Posted: 3/20/2008 5:41 PM
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Cardboard
Skilled player (1605)
Joined: 6/11/2006
Posts: 818
Location: Arboga, Sweden
NES TAS of 2008 Rookie of 2007 GBx TASer of 2007
Ferret Warlord wrote:
Question about the two runs posted: Do either of them use a glitch that allows them to walk on spikes or walk through enemies without losing too much momentum? I haven't watched them yet, so I wouldn't know.
The only thing I know that I use is roll into an enemy/spikes and un-morph to keep on running, other than that, no.
Warp wrote:
omg lol this is so fake!!!1 the nes cant produce music like this!
Posted: 3/25/2008 8:16 PM
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Ferret_Warlord
Skilled player (1416)
Joined: 10/27/2004
Posts: 1978
Location: Making an escape
Yup, that's the one I was talking about. I personally call it "spike walking" because, well, you can walk on spikes using it. I ended up coming across it and thought, "Hm, this seems obscure enough for someone to have missed. Better ask before I show it off and make a fool of myself." Hadn't watched the movie yet because I wanted to complete the game on the original hardware before doing so. That being said, I have since gotten a hold of a hard copy, played it, and watched your any%. Very nice! Many of the metroid strategies were quite surprising. 'Twill be very helpful for the glitched run. On a side note: I was messing around with some of the properties of screwy scrolling and came across this little oddity. Something is very weird about the water there.
A hundred years from now, they will gaze upon my work and marvel at my skills but never know my name. And that will be good enough for me.
Posted: 3/26/2008 11:40 AM
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Cardboard
Skilled player (1605)
Joined: 6/11/2006
Posts: 818
Location: Arboga, Sweden
NES TAS of 2008 Rookie of 2007 GBx TASer of 2007
One good thing to know is that when the game is supposed to lag, it primary makes the enemies stop moving while Samus' moves at full speed, so try to use that if you want an enemy to stop for a few. I am also doing some other experimenting, but I might have to get back with those techs if I get them to work. One of them might include shooting through blocks. Also how did you do that water thingie?
Warp wrote:
omg lol this is so fake!!!1 the nes cant produce music like this!
Posted: 3/26/2008 6:07 PM
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pirate_sephiroth
Active player (315)
Joined: 2/28/2006
Posts: 2275
Location: Milky Way -> Earth -> Brazil
New systems TAS of 2009
Yeah, nice glitches, FerretWarlord. But I think there's something you don't know about the select glitch... I wish I had not deleted my pacifist run... Maybe someday I'll make a new run...
"Genuine self-esteem, however, consists not of causeless feelings, but of certain knowledge about yourself. It rests on the conviction that you — by your choices, effort and actions — have made yourself into the kind of person able to deal with reality. It is the conviction — based on the evidence of your own volitional functioning — that you are fundamentally able to succeed in life and, therefore, are deserving of that success." - Onkar Ghate
Bisqwit wrote:
Drama, too long, didn't read, lol.
Posted: 3/27/2008 1:09 AM
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Ferret_Warlord
Skilled player (1416)
Joined: 10/27/2004
Posts: 1978
Location: Making an escape
Cardboard wrote:
Also how did you do that water thingie?
Load up this save state, which was taken after some rather interesting glitching to get to the missile pack there, walk to the right till you can't walk anymore, and then jump to the right a few times. What's going on is that leaving that room in the upwards direction sets Samus to appear behind the scenery; however, because the warping causes the screen to appear on top of a boundary, Samus, when she jumps, will appear at the bottom of the room. This means that the room above that room happens to be the room itself. If any of this makes sense to you. The graphical glitch is little more than an interesting graphical anomaly. However, causing the screen to appear on top of a room boundary to get Samus to appear on the other side of the room has potential. In fact, it's essential to get out of that save state's situation gracefully. Just jump a few times from where Samus is standing once it's loaded and you're good to go!
pirate_sephiroth wrote:
But I think there's something you don't know about the select glitch...
I'm all ears.
A hundred years from now, they will gaze upon my work and marvel at my skills but never know my name. And that will be good enough for me.
Posted: 4/28/2008 7:46 AM
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Ferret_Warlord
Skilled player (1416)
Joined: 10/27/2004
Posts: 1978
Location: Making an escape
Work on the glitched TAS has begun in earnest. As evidence of this claim, I provide you this WIP, which destroys the first metroid and enters the room with the first save post. With the select glitch, this task is accomplished about 36 seconds faster than the current runs. However, I'm going to put the WIP on halt right now, as I have yet to work on various details. From here on out, I'm going to do a rough draft as I finalize the route and various pickups. I'll probably post that in two parts. I'm excited about this. I've been wanting to do this for a few years now, at last, it's getting done! :D Wish me luck! Pirate Sephiroth: Right about now would be a good time to provide a VBM of whatever you are talking about.
A hundred years from now, they will gaze upon my work and marvel at my skills but never know my name. And that will be good enough for me.
Posted: 4/30/2008 11:01 PM
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Ferret_Warlord
Skilled player (1416)
Joined: 10/27/2004
Posts: 1978
Location: Making an escape
Alrighty, got the first part of the rough draft done. This contains a few route adjustments from the earlier demo, including foregoing the jump boots. Everything you'll see in this is part of the final route I'll use, save for two places where I didn't use the select glitch because it would have been too tedious to use for a test run. This movie introduces an interesting screen wrapping glitch that causes Samus to appear on the other side of the room (I talked about it a few posts back). I'm not sure if it'll be useful in many places, but it was crucial after picking up that last missile pack! Also, I believe the method I used to get to the first missile pack is about one second faster than crawling up the wall. As I said, everything here is part of the final route. Everything from here on out will be experimental, and I'm not sure how much will actually make it in. Enjoy!
A hundred years from now, they will gaze upon my work and marvel at my skills but never know my name. And that will be good enough for me.
Posted: 5/1/2008 12:18 AM
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LagDotCom
Joined: 3/7/2006
Posts: 720
Location: UK
This run is bizarre and hilarious, I love it. It's like Pokemon's Glitch City meets Earthbound with all its crazy music. I regret that I can't find my work regarding Metroid 2 without killing the Larval Metroids. This'll be funny enough anyway :)
Voted NO for NO reason
Posted: 5/3/2008 3:04 AM
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Ferret_Warlord
Skilled player (1416)
Joined: 10/27/2004
Posts: 1978
Location: Making an escape
Funny? I think this'll be awesome! ;P This isn't really an update, but a discovery. Notice anything weird when watching this movie? I start rapidly changing the weapon, and Samus stops taking damage from the lava! This may mean I won't have to worry about my health when fighting the queen. As for the rest of the route... Feh. I have several choices laid out before me, but none of them work together very well. The places I need to go to are right next to each other, but because the tilesets don't change to what they need to be, I get stuck. :( Anyone have ANY ideas?
A hundred years from now, they will gaze upon my work and marvel at my skills but never know my name. And that will be good enough for me.
Posted: 5/3/2008 8:32 AM
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Cardboard
Skilled player (1605)
Joined: 6/11/2006
Posts: 818
Location: Arboga, Sweden
NES TAS of 2008 Rookie of 2007 GBx TASer of 2007
I think Raiscan found that one a while back, however, is it worth it? The acid will take the double amount of time now ;( Also in other news, I am redoing both my runs now \o/ ThereIsNoWall I haven't been able to pull this off with the missiles yet because they accelerate too slow so I doubt that this is useful at all.
Warp wrote:
omg lol this is so fake!!!1 the nes cant produce music like this!
Posted: 5/6/2008 4:26 AM
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Ferret_Warlord
Skilled player (1416)
Joined: 10/27/2004
Posts: 1978
Location: Making an escape
Raiscan found that already? Aw, man, here I was, thinking I was on to something. :/ Still, it could prove useful. I dunno. Anyway, the route has been finalized (now with convenient save state so you don't have to watch the first 12 minutes)! The second part was a bit of a headache to get done, but it's done! I'm positive there's a better route, but this is the best I could find. Man, I'm excited! It doesn't go all the way to the end; it's pretty obvious what will happen one I escape the glitched throne room, and not much in the way of exciting stuff is going to happen, so I decided to spare you the boring details. But yeah, it goes through and destroys the first 38 metroids and enters the last area with 45 missiles left - just enough to finish the game - in around 30 minutes. 30 unoptimized minutes! I'm guessing the run will end up being in the 25-27 minute range when finished. Anyway, enjoy! Go ahead and ask any questions. I don't know when I'll continue with the run, but this should do in the meantime.
A hundred years from now, they will gaze upon my work and marvel at my skills but never know my name. And that will be good enough for me.
Posted: 5/7/2008 10:33 PM
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Alter
Former player
Joined: 1/29/2007
Posts: 116
That run is amazing. Usually glitched runs don't entertain me too much because they are too short and you don't get what's going on, very different here. Some serious wtf moments ^^ I liked the scene before you collected the Springball, I thought "Hey, why don't you get up there and get the Varia suit?" and then you went and collected it - jumping through the floor from some crazy place that had Metroids mainly consisting of letters Oo Oh, and the zipping just after Varia was nice. Cardboard, I would like to introduce a little competition again, but won't have time for that in the foreseeable future :( glhf with your runs!
Posted: 5/7/2008 10:51 PM
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Ferret_Warlord
Skilled player (1416)
Joined: 10/27/2004
Posts: 1978
Location: Making an escape
I'd have to agree with that sentiment; glitched runs are good and all, but mainly consist of glitching to the final boss (sometimes beyond, even!), skipping much of the fun stuff. Because of the way this game was designed, a glitched run is forced to go through most of the main game anyway, allowing for a much broader view of what's going on and more time to appreciate the glitch. BTW, I've continued the run and collected the spider ball in under two minutes time. I've never been this excited for any other run I've done!
A hundred years from now, they will gaze upon my work and marvel at my skills but never know my name. And that will be good enough for me.
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