Posted: 7/13/2020 10:11 PM
Post subject: Buying a new mouse
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Nach
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Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
So the primary mouse I was using (a Microsoft optical wheel mouse) suddenly had the wheel die on me, so I need a new mouse. I have 3 other available mice here as backups / for family members, but I didn't realize what junk they are till I started using them: Microsoft basic optical mouse 2 - Tiny, too light. AmazonBasics - Much too tiny, too light. Logitech M310 - Gliding for some reason seems to be a bit on the rough side, the wheel is junk, doesn't scroll nicely, clicking it is a relatively herculean task when compared to other mice. Reading some Amazon comments on some potential replacement mice, I'm seeing a bunch of 1-star reviews enumerating all kinds of ridiculous issues. They more or less perfected mouse design some 15 years back, now seems they're doing everything they can to destroy a winning model. I used to always buy Microsoft mice, but I'm reading about how all their new models have bugs, parts of the outside peels off after a few weeks of use, they're too light, some of them don't even have a body... So anyone know of a good mouse with the following criteria: Fits large hands nicely, should have a nice size to it. Has some weight to it, none of this lightweight junk that you can barely tell you're moving it. Has a body, so you can actually wrap your hand around it. Has a decent wheel, scrolls nice and smoothly and can click. Wired, USB. At least two buttons besides the wheel. 1000 DPI or higher. No craziness around the sides, dozens of buttons. Primarily for right hand use, but should be able to be used left handed as well. Price is $50 or less (really shouldn't be more than $15, but junk these days...) Good quality, will last several years without issues.
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
Posted: 7/13/2020 10:32 PM
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CoolHandMike
He/Him
Editor, Judge, Experienced player (894)
Joined: 3/9/2019
Posts: 692
First edition TAS of 2023 Sega TAS of 2023
How about Logitech Trackman Marble Trackball Mouse – Wired USB Ergonomic Mouse for Computers, with 4 Programmable Buttons, Dark Gray? Would fit larger hands I believe. The thing is pretty big. There is a button assigned to the wheel scroll functionality, it acts like the scroll. It is wired USB. Has 2 buttons on either side. DPI I don't think makes sense as a measurement for this trackballs, but you can adjust the sensitivity with the trackball. Ambi friendly. I have on occasion hurt a hand so sometimes I would switch mouse hands and this works for that. I actually have the buttons reversed so the right click is on the left side, for some reason I like that better. Right now about $25. Not sure on how long it will last but been good for a little over a year. The only issue I had with it was I accidentally peeled off a support rubber piece on the bottom, but even with that still good since you only need to move the trackball. You will need to pull out the ball and clean off the lint inside every once in a while. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001F42MKG?tag=duckduckgo-d-20&linkCode=osi&th=1&psc=1
discord: CoolHandMike#0352
Posted: 7/13/2020 10:39 PM
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Nach
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Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
That looks like a nice trackball mouse. I've used them before and they're okay. Personally though, I prefer the more classic glide the device itself approach, with a laser sight on the bottom. And yeah, ambidextrous is terrific for when you hurt your hand. It's happens to me often enough, that I despise mice that make it difficult to use with either hand.
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
Posted: 7/13/2020 11:38 PM
(Edited: 7/14/2020 12:06 AM)
Post subject: Re: Buying a new mouse
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Masterjun
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Joined: 10/12/2010
Posts: 1185
Location: Germany
Exotic platforms TAS of 2020 Speedy TAS of 2018 PC TAS of 2018 Glitchy TAS of 2015 TASer of 2014 SNES TASer of 2014 TAS of 2014 SNES TAS of 2014 Funny TAS of 2014 Glitchy TAS of 2014 TASer of 2013 SNES TASer of 2013 NES TAS of 2013 SNES TAS of 2012 Funny TAS of 2012
I'm using the Logitech M500 Corded Mouse, which seems to fit most of the criteria. (I'm strictly talking about the M500, not the M500s.) - Fits large hands nicely, should have a nice size to it. It's not as small as all these really small ones. - Has some weight to it, none of this lightweight junk that you can barely tell you're moving it. Yes. - Has a body, so you can actually wrap your hand around it. Yes. - Has a decent wheel, scrolls nice and smoothly and can click. Yes. The wheel is great. There is a mechanical button which unlocks the wheel allowing for infinite scroll (no need to ever use it, and it doesn't get in the way). When locked the scrolling is precise. - Wired, USB. Yes. - At least two buttons besides the wheel. Two buttons. Or do the "tilt scroll" buttons (left/right) count as well? In any case, the specification says 7 buttons. - 1000 DPI or higher. 1000 DPI. - No craziness around the sides, dozens of buttons. No craziness. - Primarily for right hand use, but should be able to be used left handed as well. It's not a symmetrical mouse, so this point is not an easy yes. I just tried using it with my left hand. If you try only putting two fingers on top, your ring finger will accidentally hit the side buttons. Putting the ring finger next to the middle finger on top of the button works fine. - Price is $50 or less (really shouldn't be more than $15, but junk these days...) Yes. - Good quality, will last several years without issues. Amazon tells me I bought it in January 2017, and I've been using it since then. I've noticed no difference except for all the text on the mouse fading. (I plan to buy this one again once my current one stops working properly.) (Also, I absolutely love how a bunch of one-star reviews on amazon are people not being careful with the package and cutting the cord off. I guess that's a thing to be wary about?)
Warning: Might glitch to credits I will finish this ACE soon as possible (or will I?)
Posted: 7/13/2020 11:49 PM
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Nach
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Joined: 3/9/2004
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Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
That looks good, but has the same issue I wrote about for M310? Q: I hear that the scroll wheel is a bit tough to click down. Was this just one of the mice (bad batch) or is it all of them? A: Funny. I just wrote my review of this mouse yesterday, and this was my only complaint - but it's a big one. A "bit tough to click down" is an understatement. The wheel click is all but useless, and makes this otherwise great mouse a returnable item for me. I use the wheel click a lot, and this was a great disappointment to me. I had another Logitech mouse prior to this (that over time developed some other odd problems) but the wheel click worked perfectly - so it's certainly something Logitech knows how to do. Not sure what happened with this mouse. I bought two (returned one so far) so it's not just an anomaly... Other than that, I'd buy this in a heartbeat.
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
Posted: 7/14/2020 12:06 AM
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Masterjun
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Posts: 1185
Location: Germany
Exotic platforms TAS of 2020 Speedy TAS of 2018 PC TAS of 2018 Glitchy TAS of 2015 TASer of 2014 SNES TASer of 2014 TAS of 2014 SNES TAS of 2014 Funny TAS of 2014 Glitchy TAS of 2014 TASer of 2013 SNES TASer of 2013 NES TAS of 2013 SNES TAS of 2012 Funny TAS of 2012
I was just about to edit this part in. Yes indeed it is a bit tougher than other mice. I did not notice this before reading the reviews myself. I would not say the wheel click is useless and making the mouse a returnable item. I also wouldn't say it's a "relatively herculean task". But I do say that it's noticeable enough for me to say "Yeah, it's tougher". (But it's not enough for me personally to take a risk and try out a completely new mouse once this one breaks.)
Warning: Might glitch to credits I will finish this ACE soon as possible (or will I?)
Posted: 7/14/2020 12:16 AM
Post subject: Re: Buying a new mouse
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Nach
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Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
Masterjun wrote:
Also, I absolutely love how a bunch of one-star reviews on amazon are people not being careful with the package and cutting the cord off. I guess that's a thing to be wary about?
My general approach for buying a product is to look at the one-star reviews, then filter out the stupid ones, and see if it seems like a good product. There's a lot of craziness in the one-star reviews. I know these plastic packages are often difficult to open, but cutting the cord off is a new one for me. Typically, the dumb one-star reviews are like it requires Windows 7+, says so in the requirements, but user is complaining it doesn't work with XP. Or the user says he ordered it with next day shipping, but didn't get it for three days, so one star. With this here, you see how spaced out many average people are. If you're cutting these packages open, you always do so from the very edge. At least you look to see where the wire might be / feel for it, so you know you're not cutting into anything. Typically I'll make a small cut in the edge, then try to rip the plastic apart from there because you have no idea what you might cut into.
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
Posted: 7/14/2020 3:20 AM
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Nach
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Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
Masterjun wrote:
I was just about to edit this part in. Yes indeed it is a bit tougher than other mice. I did not notice this before reading the reviews myself. I would not say the wheel click is useless and making the mouse a returnable item. I also wouldn't say it's a "relatively herculean task". But I do say that it's noticeable enough for me to say "Yeah, it's tougher". (But it's not enough for me personally to take a risk and try out a completely new mouse once this one breaks.)
I'm thinking that Logitech perhaps some variance in their design here. Their wheel click in general is harder than other companies, but some of them come off the assembly line where you can barely press it down casually with just a single finger. So you might get one where it's a bit tougher, or one where you need to put your body weight on it. Obviously people have different amounts of strengths in their fingers, but some reviews make me think they got one where the click is defectively rigid. I have some pretty strong fingers, and I find clicking the one I have to really require a bit of force. I cannot click it casually. One thing I'm wondering though if age has anything to do with it. The one I have is fresh out of the box. Maybe after using it for a couple of days it becomes easier to press? And the rigidness is by design because it loosens up with some use.
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
Posted: 7/14/2020 10:49 AM
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Chanoyu
Joined: 1/14/2016
Posts: 100
I have the Logitech M500 as well, and it really is a very nice mouse. As for the wheel, it requires enough force that you'd never press it accidentily, is a bit tougher than the left/right click, but is still a very casual click.
Posted: 7/14/2020 9:51 PM
Post subject: Re: Buying a new mouse
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Warp
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Joined: 3/10/2004
Posts: 7698
Location: Finland
Nach wrote:
Fits large hands nicely, should have a nice size to it. Has some weight to it, none of this lightweight junk that you can barely tell you're moving it. Has a body, so you can actually wrap your hand around it. Has a decent wheel, scrolls nice and smoothly and can click. Wired, USB. At least two buttons besides the wheel. 1000 DPI or higher. No craziness around the sides, dozens of buttons. Primarily for right hand use, but should be able to be used left handed as well. Price is $50 or less (really shouldn't be more than $15, but junk these days...) Good quality, will last several years without issues.
I can only speak from experience about the mouse I have, which is the Logitech G402. I think it fits nicely all your criteria, except perhaps the "no craziness around the sides, dozens of buttons" part. But I don't think that's an issue. The extra buttons don't get in the way, and sometimes there are actually nice uses for them (eg. I like one of the thumb buttons working as a web browser "back" button. Surprisingly handy.)
Posted: 7/15/2020 10:49 PM
Post subject: Just being my usual helpful self
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Ferret_Warlord
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https://www.whompcomic.com/comic/mouse-advantage
A hundred years from now, they will gaze upon my work and marvel at my skills but never know my name. And that will be good enough for me.
Posted: 7/17/2020 6:55 AM
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Nach
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Joined: 3/9/2004
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So I just learned about this mouse, and it's on sale: https://amzn.to/2ZAHLHj I placed my order, so I'll get it whenever Amazon figures out how to ship it. I got an earlier version of that same mouse some 15 years back, and I used it with one of my computers for ~10 years till the right click started sticking for some reason. According to reviews, this pro version, is not junk like the rest of the lineup with peeling issues and other poor quality nonsense. I hope that's true. Since it's currently on sale for under $50, it matches all my criteria (of course once I get my hands on it, I may learn otherwise, but hopefully not). However if you're looking to get the same mouse for the same criteria, just be aware that while it can be used left handed, the shape of it makes it a bit clunky to do so compared to more neutrally shaped mice. However it's nowhere near as difficult as some other right handed mice I've used. At least that was the case with the previous model I had which this is based on, I'll know more when I get my hands on this one.
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Posted: 7/21/2020 6:25 PM
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Warp
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Joined: 3/10/2004
Posts: 7698
Location: Finland
Nach wrote:
So I just learned about this mouse, and it's on sale: https://amzn.to/2ZAHLHj I placed my order, so I'll get it whenever Amazon figures out how to ship it.
It appears to be at this moment cheaper at Microsoft's own store ($39.23), and I think they offer free shipping (even internationally). (I once bought an Xbox One controller wireless USB adaptor for the PC, and they shipped it for free to Finland.) On that note, the mouse I recommended, the Logitech G402, seems to also be within the price range at Amazon ($42).
Posted: 7/21/2020 6:47 PM
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Nach
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Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
Warp wrote:
It appears to be at this moment cheaper at Microsoft's own store ($39.23), and I think they offer free shipping (even internationally).
Looks like you're right, thanks! I just need to create an account with them for personal use.
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
Posted: 8/9/2020 6:29 PM
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Nach
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Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
So I finally got the mouse and had the chance to use it a bit, after the post office somehow lost it for a week. So far, I'm finding it to be terrific. It fits my large hands nicely. Nice weight. I am able to wrap my hands around it comfortably. The wheel is terrific. Scrolling is great, clicking is easy and doesn't sound like a gunshot like some other wheels. I can use it with either hand quite easily, even though it's clearly molded for right handed use. I don't know yet how long it will last long term, but other than that, it hit every requirement on my list. Only thing weird about it is that it's also reporting itself as a keyboard: 
usb 3-1: new full-speed USB device number 73 using xhci_hcd
usb 3-1: New USB device found, idVendor=045e, idProduct=082a, bcdDevice= 0.95
usb 3-1: New USB device strings: Mfr=1, Product=2, SerialNumber=0
usb 3-1: Product: Microsoft Pro Intellimouse
usb 3-1: Manufacturer: Microsoft
input: Microsoft Microsoft Pro Intellimouse Mouse as /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:07.1/0000:0a:00.3/usb3/3-1/3-1:1.0/0003:045E:082A.005A/input/input41
hid-generic 0003:045E:082A.005A: input,hiddev2,hidraw0: USB HID v1.11 Mouse [Microsoft Microsoft Pro Intellimouse] on usb-0000:0a:00.3-1/input0
input: Microsoft Microsoft Pro Intellimouse Keyboard as /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:07.1/0000:0a:00.3/usb3/3-1/3-1:1.1/0003:045E:082A.005B/input/input42
input: Microsoft Microsoft Pro Intellimouse Consumer Control as /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:07.1/0000:0a:00.3/usb3/3-1/3-1:1.1/0003:045E:082A.005B/input/input43
input: Microsoft Microsoft Pro Intellimouse as /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:07.1/0000:0a:00.3/usb3/3-1/3-1:1.1/0003:045E:082A.005B/input/input44
input: Microsoft Microsoft Pro Intellimouse as /devices/pci0000:00/0000:00:07.1/0000:0a:00.3/usb3/3-1/3-1:1.1/0003:045E:082A.005B/input/input45
hid-generic 0003:045E:082A.005B: input,hiddev3,hidraw6: USB HID v1.11 Keyboard [Microsoft Microsoft Pro Intellimouse] on usb-0000:0a:00.3-1/input1
I imagine the keyboard may have something to do with buttons 4 and 5 on it. But it works fine.
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