This topic is for the purpose of discussing #643: mookish's NES Final Fantasy in 1:30:47.67

I watched it start to finish, not boring at all. I always found it intresting to see how long you needed to make the mage sit in order to get the proper attack/run luck you were looking for. Did you keep retrying on differnt frames until you got the desired effect, or did you sit and watch the ram to determin the proper frame?

I kept retrying on different frames...I found that a lot easier than looking into the memory and trying to figure out the register(s) I needed to watch. A bit tedious, but not too shabby...most fights ended up being 100 frames or less, although there were a few exceptions (notably most of the boss fights).

Seeing this thread reminded me of my FF2 timeattack. Well, theres a story behind that one. Long story short, I recieved a virus. I needed to format(No burning software at the time) so i had my most important work put onto a disc, sadly forgetting about my timeattack. So, VERY shortly, I will get back to that, and shortly I will watch this.

Looks great, I love the Kraken fight. :) As great as this is, I have to question quite a few things: Could you explain why you don't do the Sea Shrine in one shot? Would it have been even harder to work out the encounters--ghosts on floor 2? You had quite a few extra fights as it is. Also, on the earth floor of TOFR you do an extra two encounters, one of which is Earths. How did this help-why not do it on the previous or next floor--and why didn't you work it out to put the last encounter closer to the stairs? When you equip the ribbon before the eye, it seems there was an earlier inventory spot you could have done that in. It also seems unnecessary to visit the Coneria inn before TOFR. Could you have picked up a house or maybe bought one in Gaia to avoid using the inn? Finally, why not park the airship at an appropriate distance from TOF so that you could walk the rest of the way and get the encounters you need?

Hmmm I dunno how to vote quite yet.. it's interesting to say the least! But there's a few things that stuck out as... bad/odd... 1. In Corneria at the BEGINNING of the game, you walk up to exit the town and wait for a guard to have to move... was there not a way to delay the exitting of the shop a few frames so the guard wouldn't be there and hence save you a second or 2? 2. In the swamp cave... why did you grab the Iron Armor? I mean the Short Sword makes sense to do more damage... but wouldn't it have been faster to simply manipulate damage taken then grab the armor? I mean if it makes that huge of a difference, at least the one in the Corneria Castle was 2 steps over from the TNT. 3. I have the same question as TheAxeMan in regards to the Sea Shrine... and unorthodox is putting it lightly, the way you roamed around the exit, then exited then went outside the town, back in, then out again... did that save a heck of a lot of time..? 4. I also have to admit, TheAxeMan's comment on the House instead of an Inn in Corneria is something on my mind as well. 5. Heck, TheAxeMan's comments about the Earth Floor in the TOFR... I must admit to desiring to echo those as well. OTHER then that, it was a cool movie! I mean until I seen this... I never knew you could walk up to Chaos, pull down your pants, moon him, give him the finger.. and when he even remotely twitches, use the Bane Sword and toast him with one shot... THAT was slightly less cool then the Kraken fight which made me fall of my chair in laughter. :) Mr. Kelly R. Flewin

Let me see if I can touch on a few points: 1. Regarding Corneria at the start...I advanced as much as I could to try and get him to move out of the way. It just came across as being quicker to force him out of the way than the latter. Perhaps I did something wrong, but I doubt it...??? 2. Swamp cave...the Iron Armor for the wizards is almost a necessity. Without it...well, they tend to do 2 hits for enough damage to kill any character outright. And even with luck manipulation, I found it nigh impossible to get them both to miss, or even to 1-hit. 3. The sea shrine...I had to modify that run to hell and beyond, because of the required fights I was coming up against. I wasn't kidding when I said Squaresoft designed the random encounter list perfectly...albeit probably on accident. Running through the shrine normally (going to get the slab, then running to kill kraken), I ended up with 5 required fights (3 sets of ghosts, 2 sets of waters). This method, I ended up with ONE required fight (stupid wizard sahag), and actually gained 150 frames over my prior run. I roamed around the exit/exited+went inside the town to avoid another required fight one step shy of getting back to the airship. Could I have done it differently? Probably...and I may in the future. 4. Little plans like that (a house instead of the inn, etc.), I'd have to check and see just how many frames I lose in the process. Somehow, I have a feeling they'll be pretty close, but all these tiny "quirks" might be what is necessary to push the run under the 1:30 mark. 5. The Earth Floor...I wasn't happy about that, but here was the problem. Based on the encounter list, if I hadn't done those two fights there, I would have had to deal with a group of 3-4 fires later on, as well as a required water fight on ToFR Water. Killing two earths with a weakness to fire was a lot easier than the pair of alternatives...trust me, I tried both ways. And to touch on Axeman's comments on why I didn't do the fights earlier...well, let me quote a little blip from my notes: ToFR 1F (Avoid 1, 2) ToFR 2F (Avoid 1, 2, 3, 4, 8) ToFR 3F (Avoid 3, 4, 5, 8) ToFR Earth (Avoid 7) ToFR Fire (Avoid 7) ToFR Water (Avoid 1, 3) Basically, the way the encounter list is setup, there's no possible way to avoid those required fights, short of advancing the list probably an extra 10-15 fights. Either I'm stuck fighting that streak of 5-7 required fights in a row (see my 2nd run post), or spacing them out and avoiding some of the uglier ones (Gas Dragons, Fires, Waters). I admit, ToFR and the Sea Shrine are probably some of the most unorthodox solutions I could have done, but this run was a combination of time and lowest level. Fighting groups of 3 ghosts, 3 fires, 3 waters, or a pair of Gas Dragons....well...I guess you can call it the lesser of two evils? I'd be happy to post my encounter list I made while I was making my 3rd run, if that would allay some of the questions you have. Other than that...I won't admit that the run is flawless, and probably never will be, but it is one hell of a start.

Yeah, you really do have to plan your encounters pretty far in advance. That and the loopiness is definitely required to avoid some of the tougher no-run fights and to minimize their number in general. The House could not have been bought in Gaia, because he only had 2700 G going into the town and Houses are 3000. I think it would have been possible to buy one in Onrac, though.. not sure if there was enough gold before defeating Kraken, but definitely after. Plus, the item shop there is not far out of the way.

That was pretty impressive. It's a long watch (I fast-forwarded through some of the battles where you were just going to run away about half-way through the movie), but it has some fun stuff in it. Kraken killing himself, for instance. I give that a Yes.

I havent played final fantasy much and all the fleeing wasnt very interesting but I was impressed at how you can beat the game with very low levels. I dont know much more about it to comment though but am glad that there is a decent rpg run now :)

I dont know much more about it to comment though but am glad that there is a decent rpg run now :)

You should watch the Dragon Warrior run. It's very good.

Aww yea :D

After watching this twice.................................Why dont you look into the memory..Cause if every time you run.. you can save around 10-20 frames a fight.. that would add up... And can you explain why in some spots.. you roam around looking for fights.. and still run.. does that serve a purpose..

And can you explain why in some spots.. you roam around looking for fights.. and still run.. does that serve a purpose..

Extra movement is made to change something evident, he probably avoided a random battle from happening so soon.

As was mentioned in the submission text, all of the loopiness you see is solely to manipulate the encounter list to avoid as many inescapable fights as possible. Since you can't really change the number of steps to get into a fight, you're left with making it happen on the current floor (by taking extra steps) or the next floor. That will cause a different fight to be selected, which would be escapable on the current floor, but the one selected for the next floor would not be. For example, in the Ice Cave (on the same floor as the Floater), he doesn't drop into a hole (the first time through) to the next floor right away. If he did, the next "random" fight would have been with the Frost Giant / Frost Wolf combination, which cannot be run from. By triggering it on the current floor first, the fight is instead with Mages, which can be run from.

Ahh.. ok.. thank you.. that clears it up :)