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Posted: 4/14/2004 11:51 PM
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Michael_Fried
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Which chat? Do you mean the ZHQ chat?
Posted: 4/15/2004 12:05 AM
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Sleepz
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IRC irc.enterthegame.com #nesvideos were there already
Posted: 4/15/2004 12:08 AM
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Michael_Fried
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Do you think it's time for Sleepz to start making the video yet, or should we wait longer and try to come up with more ideas? I think we should wait a few more days before Sleepz gets very far into it, but I think it's safe to do this part so far: First sword Up+A Level 3, raft Up+A Gambling game 2x (I think 80 rupees is too much to get on the way) Blue candle Level 4, ladder Up+A Level 1, bow Edit: On second thought, don't even do that yet, because I have another idea. How about only doing the gambling game once, and getting the 100 rupees on the way to level 7. Which is faster, gambling game, or money cave + time to switch to candle and back + time you need to wait for bush to burn? Even if the gambling game is slightly faster, since you would have extra rupees you would never need to go out of the way at all to collect rupees that enemies drop.
Posted: 4/15/2004 12:14 AM
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Sleepz
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Yea Ill get started. That first part is definitely good to go. Btw, about that key in level 3, do I go up and get it? Edit: I already considered getting the 100 rupees by 7, but you need that money to buy the meat, which you need to get before 7 anyways. That would means that you would lose the quickest way of buying meat (8 to 2). If you use that money for the arrows instead, its just not worth the detour time to the 100 rupee(walking left+burning bush+getting the money+walking up to 7). The gambling game is already open and you dont detour to go inside again. The only way it would save time is if you dont gamble at all, but then how would you get the blue candle?
Posted: 4/15/2004 12:26 AM
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Michael_Fried
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Joined: 3/8/2004
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Forget what I said about getting the 100 rupees on the way to level 7, I don't think it's worth it. It would waste time (maybe about 4 seconds) and the time saved for not having to go out of the way for any rupees is not enough. Also, keep in mind that you have plenty of time to get 30 rupees, so take your time and only get rupees that are on your way and very easy to get. About the key in level 3, don't get it. Only get the keys that are on your way, and also don't do the level 1 key glitch. Check my key plan in one of my previous posts for which keys to skip. If you disagree and think it's better to skip a different key, let me know and we can discuss it. Edit: Also, don't forget to get the key from the zols in the third room. You should get 2 keys and use 1 key in level 3, ending with a total of 1 key. Edit 2: Here's my key plan, with the level order changed according to the latest route. Level 3: 2-1=1 Level 4: 1+2-1=2 Level 1: 2+4-4=2 (key glitch not used) Level 5: 2+2-3=1 (skip the 2 keys in the rooms with 5 gibdos) Level 8: 1+1-1=1 (skip the key before the boss) Level 2: 1+3-0=4 Level 6: 4+3-2=5 Level 7: 5+0-3=2 Level 9: 2+1-3=0 (skip the key 2 rooms up from the start) Edit 3: By the way, always take the same path through the levels as in my video, except for these changes: In level 1, do Up+A after the arrows. In level 2, go right instead of up from the start so you can get the key. In level 3, do Up+A after the raft. In level 5, do Up+A after the whistle. In level 8, don't get the magical key. In level 9, go up left up instead of up up left from the start because it's slightly shorter.
Posted: 4/15/2004 12:57 AM
(Edited: 4/15/2004 1:24 AM)
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Michael_Fried
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Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 1107
Maybe it's a little too early to start talking about this, but who thinks Sleepz should make a quest 2 speed run after he's done with the quest 1 speed run?
Posted: 4/15/2004 1:00 AM
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cat
Joined: 3/11/2004
Posts: 100
Location: Sweden
Michael Fried wrote:
Maybe it's a little to early to start talking about this, but who thinks Sleepz should make a quest 2 speed run after he's done with the quest 1 speed run?
*raises a hand*
Posted: 4/15/2004 1:05 AM
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Ramzi
Joined: 3/25/2004
Posts: 459
I thought about that. And then I caught on fire. I am not an expert on the second quest. I think the experience with this, though, would help in making a second quest vid. I don't think it's that desireable. Are there even second quest attempts at TG? A swordless 1st and 2nd quest also need to be done. There already is a swordless 2nd quest, but after all this "fastest route" stuff, I am very doubtful that it's the fastest... and I know nothing about the 2nd quest. Let's stick to this for now.
Posted: 4/15/2004 1:31 AM
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Michael_Fried
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Joined: 3/8/2004
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If someone makes a good 2nd quest speed run, it will probably inspire the TG people to do speed runs for the 2nd quest (and it would also be easier for them because they wouldn't have to figure out the best route on their own). Anyway, I think it would be a good idea if after every few dungeons Sleepz sends the fmv to me and Ramzi to see if we can come up with ways to improve it (such as a faster way to clear one of the enemy rooms). Would you be willing to do that, Sleepz, or would you rather not let anyone see it until it's all done? Edit: I just thought of another tip for you. Whenever you bomb a wall, always place the bomb as early as possible so it explodes sooner. You can put the bomb very far away from the wall, and even if the explosion doesn't touch the wall, it can still break it open.
Posted: 4/15/2004 4:14 AM
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Sleepz
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Ok, done level 3. I had to redo it 3 times because the enemies weren't dropping any cash. Time = 1:42, 3 seconds faster than Michaels. If someone makes a good 2nd quest speed run, it will probably inspire the TG people to do speed runs for the 2nd quest (and it would also be easier for them because they wouldn't have to figure out the best route on their own). Sure, I'm up for a 2nd quest run, but I'm not as familiar with it as the 1st quest. Time to come up with another route. Anyway, I think it would be a good idea if after every few dungeons Sleepz sends the fmv to me and Ramzi to see if we can come up with ways to improve it (such as a faster way to clear one of the enemy rooms). Would you be willing to do that, Sleepz, or would you rather not let anyone see it until it's all done? I prefer to finish it first before letting anyone see it, but I can send it to just you and Ramzi because you guys are part of the planning. Ill send it every few levels.
Posted: 4/15/2004 4:19 PM
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Michael_Fried
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When you say 1:42, is that up to when you touch the triforce? I don't think I'm up to doing all 9 levels all over again, but maybe I'll try just level 3 to see if I can beat that.
Posted: 4/15/2004 7:02 PM
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Michael_Fried
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I just finished level 3 and I think you have some more work to do. From stepping onto the black square to enter level 3 to touching the triforce, it took about 1:34 (and I also ended with 5 bombs). I understand you wanted to collect rupees on the way which I wasn't trying to do, but that shouldn't waste 8 seconds. Edit: I just timed it again to make sure I didn't make a mistake and this time I got 1:33. Actually, it's possible to finish even faster because my run had a few mistakes. In the room with lots of darknuts, I lost about a second because of a few wasted sword swings on a darknut that I bombed anyway. I also wasted a few seconds because I was low on bombs later in the level and I had to kill the 3 darknuts to get more bombs. I should have tried to get 8 bombs in the overworld instead of just 4. Edit 2: By the way, in case you're interested, Famtasia timed it as 2:18 from power on to touching the triforce. Edit 3: I think I just figured out what you did. You probably just stopped timing later than me. I just timed my run again from stepping onto the square to when I finished stepping out of the level and I got 1:43. If that's how you timed it, then your time is pretty good especially since you also got some rupees. Edit 4: I just noticed you said it was 3 seconds faster than my video, so I timed my video, and now I see you must have stopped timing when you came out of the level. By the way, a few posts ago when I said which changes to make in the paths through the levels, I forgot to mention that in level 3 you should bomb right instead of going up and then right through the locked door, so I hope you figured that out because you'll need all your keys later and you don't want to be short one key.
Posted: 4/15/2004 8:08 PM
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Michael_Fried
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Joined: 3/8/2004
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When Sleepz finishes his Zelda speed run and we start discussing routes for the 2nd quest, should there be a new topic for it so it doesn't interfere with the 1st quest disscusion, or should we just discuss it in this topic?
Posted: 4/15/2004 8:11 PM
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Sleepz
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Joined: 3/11/2004
Posts: 336
My timing starts stepping into the square and ends when link steps out and gains control. That way I can keep the dungeon time and overworld time seperate. I finish level 3 with 10 rupees, 1 key, 6 bombs. I only used my sword 3 times, twice to move an enemy and once to kill a bat. Should start a new topic for 2nd quest.
Posted: 4/15/2004 8:17 PM
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Michael_Fried
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Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 1107
I hope you didn't waste too much time getting all those rupees. You have 6 levels to get 30 of them, so you don't need to try extra hard to get more of them. However, if you can get rupees at such a fast rate without wasting too much time, you might want to go for 80 rupees in the 6 levels and only do the gambling game once.
Posted: 4/15/2004 11:31 PM
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Sleepz
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Joined: 3/11/2004
Posts: 336
Michael Fried wrote:
Edit 2: Here's my key plan, with the level order changed according to the latest route. Level 3: 2-1=1 Level 4: 1+2-1=2 Level 1: 2+4-4=2 (key glitch not used) Level 5: 2+2-3=1 (skip the 2 keys in the rooms with 5 gibdos) Level 8: 1+1-1=1 (skip the key before the boss) Level 2: 1+3-0=4 Level 6: 4+3-2=5 Level 7: 5+0-3=2 Level 9: 2+1-3=0 (skip the key 2 rooms up from the start)
Michael, I count 2 doors that need keys for L4. I came in with 1, and got 2 more, now theres 2 locked doors that need to be opened.
Posted: 4/15/2004 11:35 PM
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Michael_Fried
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Oops, that's not good, now I'll have to figure out which extra key to add in. Edit: I hope I didn't make any other mistakes also.
Posted: 4/15/2004 11:48 PM
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Michael_Fried
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Here are your choices: You can do the key glitch, which wastes 6.35 seconds. You can take the 1 screen detour in level 3, in a few minutes I'll time this to see how much time it wastes, but I think it will be more than 6.35. Edit: This definitely takes more than 6.35 seconds. You can get the out of the way key before the boss in level 8. Edit: This definitely takes more than 6.35 seconds. You can a key from one of the 2 rooms with 5 gibdos in level 5. You can get a key from the room with the 2 like likes and 2 zols in level 9. Edit: Ok, now you're down to 3 choices. Now you have to decide which you can kill faster, 5 gibdos (the things that look like mummies) or 2 like likes and 2 zols. Whichever you can kill faster, time yourself to see how long it takes you to get through the room killing the enemies and subtract the normal amount of time it just takes to walk through the room to figure out how much time it wastes.
Posted: 4/16/2004 12:14 AM
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Michael_Fried
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Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 1107
I just looked in the monster/item FAQ on GameFAQs and found this information: Gibdos take 4 hits to kill with the white sword. Like likes take 5 hits to kill with the white sword. Zols take 1 hit with the white sword to kill. Edit: I noticed that there's also a room in level 4 that has 2 like likes and 2 zols, so I timed the room in my 31:29 video and it wasted less than 6.35 seconds (maybe about 4 seconds). I think the gibdos would take even longer, so I think you should get the key in level 9. Edit 2: Here's the new key plan: Level 3: 2-1=1 Level 4: 1+2-2=1 Level 1: 1+4-4=1 (key glitch not used) Level 5: 1+2-3=0 (skip the 2 keys in the rooms with 5 gibdos) Level 8: 0+1-1=0 (skip the key before the boss) Level 2: 0+3-0=3 Level 6: 3+3-2=4 Level 7: 4+0-3=1 Level 9: 1+2-3=0
Posted: 4/16/2004 1:26 AM
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Sleepz
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Blah, L4 Time = 2:21, 7 seconds slower than yours. I didnt think having the wooden sword would lose this much time. I lost about a second during the level fights, but the boss fight took 6 seconds longer than yours hitting him nonstop. If I didnt skip the heart container, it would be closer to 9 seconds. At least I finished the level with 8 bombs.
Posted: 4/16/2004 1:42 AM
(Edited: 4/16/2004 2:20 AM)
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Michael_Fried
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Joined: 3/8/2004
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but the boss fight took 6 seconds longer than yours hitting him nonstop. I hope you already noticed that you can't hurt an enemy while it's flashing, so that if you swing your sword and swing it again immediately, the second swing won't hurt him. When I fought him, first I hit him the first time and then I saved. Then I swung again, and each time it didn't hurt him I would load and try swinging 3 frames later (3 since Famtasia only displays a third of the frames). This way each swing would hit him as early as possible. After hitting him, I would save and do the same thing for the next swing. Edit: I didnt think having the wooden sword would lose this much time. Well you only have to do one more level with the wooden sword, and luckily the white sword saves very little time in level 1. You can kill most (or all if you're lucky) of the stalfoses and bomb the wall with 1 bomb, then you can use another bomb on the goriyas, and another on the boss, and since you'll also do Up+A after the bow, you'll finish level 1 a lot faster than me.
Posted: 4/16/2004 1:52 AM
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Sleepz
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Joined: 3/11/2004
Posts: 336
Michael Fried wrote:
I hope you already noticed that you can't hurt an enemy while it's flashing, so that if you swing your sword and swing it again immediately, the second swing won't hurt him.
Of course I know that. I said nonstop hitting him, not nonstop sword swinging. This boss takes twice as many hits from wooden sword, so naturally it would take twice as long to kill him.
Posted: 4/16/2004 2:04 AM
(Edited: 4/16/2004 3:52 AM)
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Michael_Fried
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Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 1107
Since you're timing all the levels, here's something to compare yourself to in level 1. TSA posted a challenge for level 1 on the ZHQ forums, and the rules were that you start with the first sword, 4 bombs, and nothing else, and that you had to get the bow and the boomerang. My best time using save states and slow motion was 1:36 from being able to control Link in the level to touching the triforce. I also tried doing the challenge without save states at normal speed and I got 1:40, which beat TSA's best time by 2 seconds (though I must have tried at least 50 times before being able to go through level 1 so quickly). However, while my time is very impressive, I did have the advantage of being able to save just before I started and load every time I wanted to try again, so I was able to try more times in less time. Also keep in mind that since I wasn't using the key glitch and I didn't have any keys at the beginning of the level, I had to take a 1 screen detour at the beginning to get a key, which wasted about 10 seconds, and I also had to kill the 3 goriyas for the boomerang which probably wasted about 1 second. However, I didn't have to kill the 3 goriyas for the key, but that probably only saved about 3 seconds. You can probably expect to get about 1:28 if you time it the way I did. Edit: I have a question. Before the rupee room in level 4, did you go to the map room or the manhandla room? I don't know for sure because I haven't time it, but I think going to the map room and having to wait for it to get dark and then light again in the next room wastes time. Edit 2: How many rupees did you end level 4 with? If you keep up the rate of 10 rupees per level and add in the 10 rupees for the rupee room in level 4, that's almost 80 rupees, so I'm beginning to think you should only do the gambling game once (or have you already done it only once?).
Posted: 4/16/2004 2:07 AM
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Michael_Fried
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I wonder how your doing compared to the guy with the Twin Galaxies world record, I'm gonna go check. Edit: I couldn't find the article for Tom Votava's 34:05 run, but here are the times for Rodrigo Lopes' 35:50 run: 03:37 - entered 1st of 9 dungeons 05:28 - completed 1st dungeon...again, this need not be the dungeon officially designated as "Dungeon 1", and I cannot divulge whether the special object contained within was obtained 06:06 - entered 2nd dungeon 08:33 - completed 2nd dungeon 09:31 - entered 3rd dungeon 11:24 - completed 3rd dungeon 12:37 - entered 4th dungeon 13:53 - completed 4th dungeon 14:50 - entered 5th dungeon 18:09 - completed 5th dungeon 20:06 - entered 6th dungeon 22:44 - completed 6th dungeon 24:08 - entered 7th dungeon 26:21 - completed 7th dungeon 27:06 - entered 8th dungeon 28:41 - completed 8th dungeon 29:43 - enter 9th and final dungeon 33:14 - obtain silver arrow 35:16 - enter room with Ganon 35:40 - deliver final blow to Ganon with silver arrow 35:50 - touch Zelda and complete game under Twin Galaxies rules governing this title
Posted: 4/16/2004 11:55 AM
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Sleepz
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Joined: 3/11/2004
Posts: 336
I did L4 over again and managed to save a whole second off. Time = 2:20, 6 seconds slower than yours. Although I was behind in dungeon time by 3 seconds, I finished L1 with a time of 1:41, which is 21 seconds faster than yours, which means I'm ahead by 18 seconds. This is a LOT more time than I expected to gain on this level. We might be seeing something like 26:30. >You can probably expect to get about 1:28 if you time it the way I did. If timed the same way you did, my L1 = 1:27. >Edit: I have a question. Before the rupee room in level 4, did you go to the map room or the manhandla room? I don't know for sure because I haven't time it, but I think going to the map room and having to wait for it to get dark and then light again in the next room wastes time. Manhandla room. Its faster. >Edit 2: How many rupees did you end level 4 with? If you keep up the rate of 10 rupees per level and add in the 10 rupees for the rupee room in level 4, that's almost 80 rupees, so I'm beginning to think you should only do the gambling game once (or have you already done it only once?). I doubt I can get 80 rupees in time for the arrows. I had to redo L3 3 times to get the 10 rupees needed for gambling. I got another 10 in L4 and 0 in L1. Even if I did get the 80 rupees, it wouldnt save 8 seconds, because you have to subtract the extra time it takes collecting the money, so I'm sticking with the 30 rupee plan. My total time so far after stepping out of L1 - 7:52, so I'm already ahead of Rodrigo by 3:32.
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