Attributes

  • Forgoes major game breaking glitches
  • Forgoes out of bounds
  • Forgoes memory corruption
  • Aims for lowest real time / frame count
  • Abuses minor glitches and exploits
  • Takes damage to save time
  • Manipulates luck

Terminology

  • Energy Tank = E-Tank
  • Reserve Tank = R-Tank
  • Super Missile = Super
  • Power Bomb = PB
  • X-Ray Scope = X-Ray
  • Speed Booster = Speed
  • Hi-Jump Boots = HJB
  • Charge Beam = Charge
  • Plasma Beam = Plasma
  • Mother Brain = MB
  • Damage Boost = D-Boost
  • Continuous Wall Jump = CWJ
  • Shinespark = Spark
  • RNG = Random Number Generation
  • PLM = Post-Load Modification

Tools Used


Overview

This is an even newer Any% TAS of Super Metroid, involving a vastly different and superior route to save an enormous amount of time over my previous Any% TAS. With a real time of 35:58.3 and in-game time of 20:59:44 (minutes:seconds:frames), I have improved upon that TAS by a whopping 103 real time seconds and 97 in-game time seconds. Even though the in-game time is right on the edge of the next minute, no real time was sacrificed to achieve it.
X-Ray (along with a R-Tank) has been incorporated into this run, which saves around 11 seconds through various wild applications. This is also the first full-game TAS that takes complete advantage of the moonfall technique.
The production of this TAS was lengthy, and multiple times, it would be restarted from some point in the beginning to correct mistakes and/or incorporate new discoveries, such as moonfall. There are many tiny, near-invisible optimizations in the majority of rooms, and some cool, completely new strategies applied throughout.
The main goal of this Any% TAS was to beat the game by applying all of the discoveries from the past several years, barring the usage of out of bounds and memory corruption of course.

Route Outline

Proving itself to be the greatest boss order of all time, and matching the Low% TAS, Kraid -> Ridley -> Draygon -> Phantoon is the boss order of choice here. As a result, most of the beam upgrades were brought back (sorry Spazer), and Gravity Suit was thrown into the ocean.
Yet again, I grab the Brinstar R-Tank as it is required for performing a trick referred to as "God Mode", or G-Mode for short, which is activated to enter Lower Norfair from what is normally its exit, rather than from its elevator. Although the R-Tank can serve as a replacement to one E-Tank for the purpose of surviving MB's rainbow beam, a fourth tank (a third E-Tank) would prove too valuable to attempt skipping, due to the extreme amount of energy consumed throughout the run from sparks.

New Techniques

Moonfall

By moonwalking then pressing jump (frame 1: < or > + X, frame 2: A), instead of performing a jump, Samus will perform a turnaround animation right before performing the jump.
This particular jump will not write a new value to its vertical direction (7E0B36), causing its Y-speed value to underflow, if performed from the normal ground state. Normally, Samus's falling speed is capped at ~5 pixels per frame, but by performing this jump, her speed will be uncapped.
Therefore, by performing a moonfall, it is possible to acquire a large amount of falling speed, which can be used to pass through entire tiles. A standard tile is 16 pixels by 16 pixels.
Additionally, it is also possible to store this speed by pixel-and-frame-perfectly unmorphing onto a surface, whereby this stored speed can be unleashed later by performing the moonfall inputs again. The speed will remain stored so long as Samus does not crouch, uncrouch, jump, fall off of a surface, or get struck by something.

Inverse CWJ Methods

A few new methods were found for performing inverse CWJs, or ICWJs, during the development of this TAS:
  • Freezing an enemy in order to ICWJ from it, and then slaying it immediately after walljumping from it to prevent colliding with it and thus losing speed. Performed using the Mochtroids in Colosseum.
  • Performing an ICWJ and then immediately morphing afterward to prevent a collision. Performed in the "Three Musketeers" room upon entering Lower Norfair through G-Mode - by kicking off of the second mechanical pillar and then morphing afterward, it became possible to barely maneuver over the acid.

X-Mode

Activating X-Ray on the same frame that the knockback timer expires alters some properties of X-Ray, allowing for horizontal movement via arm pumping, and even activating sparks. X-Ray normally resets the spark timer immediately upon activating, but does not do so in this mode.

G-Mode

Discovered by EternisedDragon in 2015. Running out of energy during a door transition does not trigger the R-Tank's "Auto" feature before the next room is fully loaded. When the next room finishes loading, there is one frame of game play before the R-Tank activates.
This frame can be used to activate X-Ray, and although doing so would normally cause the less-useful "R-Mode", found many years ago by Kejardon, G-Mode can be achieved instead if the input used for activating X-Ray is released within a ~3 frame window, while the R-Tank finishes refilling Samus's energy.
This enables control over Samus, but leaves some properties of X-Ray active - for example, the game is unable to execute any PLMs, such as crumble blocks or screen scroll controllers (which is the reason the camera doesn't follow Samus during this mode), meaning activating too many PLMs will cause the queue to fill up and make most of them nonsolid. Thus, through G-Mode, Lower Norfair is easily accessible through what is normally its exit by jumping through the nonsolid pillars and crumble blocks.
The mode is disabled whenever X-Ray is activated again, and since doors are also PLMs, they will not open while the mode is active (excluding the initial door, which stays open when the mode is first activated, allowing the mode to persist into the room you were originally in).

Superjump

Discovered by SUPERMETROIDFTP in 2015 after he found that releasing X-Mode while sparking vertically would result in a crazy amount of speed. The reason for such speed is that during vertical sparks, speed continues building by ~7 pixels per frame for unknown reasons.
Despite the speed increase, the spark does not use the memory address associated with such speed; however, if the spark is interrupted by deactivating X-Ray, that speed becomes Samus's new speed, which can be a value of up to hundreds of pixels per frame depending on how long the spark progressed before X-Ray was deactivated.
Additionally, whenever X-Ray is deactivated while sparking, a blue suit is generated, which proves to be quite useful over the course of the run.
Although superjumps can be used to easily access out of bounds areas, Samus never enters an out of bounds area during this run.
A superjump can be stored if it is released slightly above ground height. Samus will be placed in a standing position on the ground with her vertical speed maintained, which can be unleashed through various different means. This is referred to as a "stored superjump".

Dash Swap

If dash is held while X-Ray is selected in the HUD, it prevents the Charge timer from increasing and even allows for the release of the shot button to maintain the Charge timer's value. As a result, it is possible to morph in midair - while maintaining a beam's charge - without turning around first.
Although a unique detail, it only managed to save one frame within the run - while revisiting Wasteland, a charge was maintained through the tunnel in order to open the vertical door one frame earlier due to the charge shot's larger hitbox.

X-Plasma

Certain foes, such as Phantoon, Botwoon, and Draygon, are unique in that their invulnerability frames will still elapse while X-Ray is active, effectively allowing for one charged Plasma shot to strike them multiple times, similar to the infamous "pause glitch" in Mega Man. Technically not a new technique, but worth mentioning anyway.

Details & Improvements Per Area

Ceres

Immediately, the run begins with a moonfall, which saves 15 frames.
During the escape, the transition between the stair room and the tile room was corrected with a forwards knockback, saving 8 frames.

Sleeping Crateria

~4 seconds total were saved between the Parlor and the Climb by performing moonfalls.

Blue Brinstar

There were no real time improvements to this area compared to my previous runs; however, I did manage to save 1 in-game frame by falling down Construction Zone 1 frame faster, which caused the door to become 1 pixel off-center.

Awakened Crateria

A frame was saved in the room before Bomb Torizo through a new sequencing of the Missiles, and a frame was saved after bombing the wall before the Terminator room by timing the shot better, opening the door a frame earlier.
Acquiring a Missile drop from a Kago bug instead of the first Geemer in the Terminator room saved 4-5 frames.
Optimizing the first d-boost in the Green Pirate Shaft, along with storing and unleashing speed through moonfall, saved ~12 frames.

Green Brinstar

In the elevator room, 10 frames were saved through a slight optimization of the door-opening strategy.
The R-Tank, which is a requirement of G-Mode, is collected at the cost of ~1026 frames.
2 frames were saved by d-boosting into the Super pack instead of jumping into it.
Clipping through the PB floor of the elevator room saves 30-40 seconds due to the assortment of useful items in the rooms below the floor.
In the Dachora room, 10-20 frames were lost by farming 3 drops - to prepare the R-Tank's energy pool accordingly for the upcoming G-Mode - and 3-4 seconds were saved by destroying the center blockade with a PB.
The storage and unleashing of moonfalls throughout Big Pink saved 10-20 frames.

Red Brinstar

A moonfall is used while waiting on the bomb explosion to save a few frames.
X-Ray is collected at a hefty price of ~2960 frames, but will prove to be well worth it over time.
The room strategies of X-Ray and the room before/after are seconds faster in comparison to Cpadolf's (obsoleted) game end glitch TAS.
Cacatacs cause RNG to advance at twice its normal speed, so its death is delayed to manipulate Kraid's drops.

Kraid's Lair

Two of the pirates were farmed at the cost of 10-20 frames, and the d-boost before the Gadora was skipped at the cost of 9 frames, in order to maintain enough energy for the lag reduction performed during Kraid's rising sequence (without getting "health bombed" afterward).

Norfair

HJB are not acquired until after Ridley as it turned out to be faster to delay them than to collect them by falling back down and climbing back up.
A single round of Gamets are farmed after Speed, acquiring 5 Supers at the cost of ~70 frames. The odds of this happening normally are approximately 72 in 10,000.
As explained previously, Lower Norfair is entered from its exit via G-Mode, saving ~2600 frames. During the downtime spent waiting on the Multiviola to make its way near the door, I farm two Supers and a PB.

Lower Norfair

The two Kihunters are taken out with a spark upon entering, reducing lag that would occur through the rest of the room after the acid recedes. Afterwards, a ridiculous ICWJ is performed off the pillar, followed by a soft-unmorph to store fall speed that is unleashed in the next room via moonfall.
A blue suit via X-Mode is produced, saving time in the next few rooms by being able to destroy Kihunters and blocks upon contact. Additionally, moonfalls are stored and unleashed throughout the area, saving 2-4 frames per use, preventing slopes from slowing Samus down.
A new double ball boost strategy was implemented in the room after the steel pirates, saving 50 energy at the cost of ~10 frames.

Ridley

Compared to previous X-Factor-performing TASes, the lag throughout the fight has been greatly reduced, and a new strategy for the first X-Factor is ~20 frames faster. Altogether, the fight is over a second faster than those TASes.

Norfair Escape

Superjumps throughout this area saved a combined amount of ~392 frames.
The dash swap technique is executed while leaving Wasteland, saving the aforementioned frame.
Believe it or not, bombing the pillars outside of Lower Norfair is faster for real time than using a PB.
40-50 frames were saved by d-boosting off the Multiviola after the tunnel mockball.
The items around the HJB area are collected with a speedball similar to the one performed in Cpadolf's Any%.

Maridia

Just like in my previous Any% TAS, Maridia is entered through the green gate by freezing the Zebbo beneath it and mockballing into it, forcing it to open and keeping the glass tube intact.
A X-Mode spark allows Samus to fly through the sand hall, and the blue suit gained from that allows Samus to superjump through the gray door that normally prevents access to Plasma until Draygon has been defeated. Unfortunately, this causes the graphics to become misaligned for the remainder of the run.
After grabbing Plasma, another blue suit is created via X-Mode, with a moonfall performed after onto the center of the door below as it is opening, fixing the transition, and yet another moonfall right after in the next room.
Another X-Mode spark is performed, this time to skip the gray door that normally prevents access to Draygon until Botwoon has been defeated, in a much quicker manner than otherwise.
In Cacatac Alley, the blue suit gained from the above is transformed into a spark suit. Then, at the end of the Colosseum, this spark suit is transformed back into a blue suit. This is because X-Ray is used to defeat Draygon, and activating X-Ray normally would erase a spark suit - but not a blue suit.

Draygon

So long as she is moving, blue suit keeps Samus safe from turret shots.
Thanks to our totally-legitimately-acquired Plasma, X-Plasma is used to fry Draygon in mere seconds.

Maridia Escape

Upon revisiting Cacatac Alley, a spark suit is obtained in an extremely small distance by abusing X-Mode, and then X-Mode is used again to horizontally spark through a chunk of the room.
A stored superjump is performed in the Butterfly room, and unleashed in the next room, causing Samus to rise through the wall, up into the door above without even having to open it.
In the Thread The Needle room, an X-Mode spark is performed through the first half of the room, and the second half of the room is farmed to regain energy for a spark in Crateria later.
The spark from the blue suit gained through the X-Mode spark is used to superjump directly up the elevator shaft, skipping the intended elevator ride and saving ~10 seconds. There was only 1 frame remaining on the spark timer at the time of activation.
Two perfectly overlapped Kago bugs were able to be farmed without slowing down.

Wrecked Ship

Previous energy preparation caused the spark to end at the optimal location next to the door.
The moonfalls throughout the main shaft and room before Phantoon saved a total of 20-30 frames.

Phantoon

Just like Draygon, Phantoon is satisfyingly annihilated with a single charge shot - after striking it with a Missile - saving ~90 frames. The Missile is required to have Phantoon initiate movement, as otherwise, Phantoon would immediately disappear upon contact with the charge shot.

To Tourian

Due to the previous energy and ammo acquisitions, I was able to skip most of Phantoon's drops, performing the traditional speedball exit.
Superjumping up the main shaft saved ~3 seconds.
The leftover blue suit allowed for sparking earlier through the hallway and over the ocean, ending at the ideal location as a result of previous energy preparation, saving over a second compared to the bounce ball strategy that was performed in my Low% run.
Slopekiller is activated upon unmorphing after leaping over the moat, which was either equally fast or 1 frame faster.
Once again, moonfalls are stored and unleashed throughout Green Pirate Shaft, allowing the pirates to be farmed while also saving 4 frames.
Finally, the dance performed along the water in front of the statues is actually Samus building speed through moonfall (although at worse acceleration due to liquid physics), causing her to reach the elevator platform 13 frames faster than before.

Tourian

Strategies similar to those of Saturn's RBO were used to dispatch the Metroids, tweaked slightly for real time.
By using moonfall to clip into part of the dome on the ground, I was able to gain more speed before the first jump of the Super Metroid skip, making it 1 frame swifter than Cpadolf's 100%.
The moonfall down the shaft outside of MB's chamber saved ~13 frames.

MB1

I was able to gain a spark suit during the collapse of MB's tank, only taking 1 point of damage (from the spark). This was accomplished by d-boosting towards MB, which causes Samus to constantly gain knockback frames, and that portion of MB does not deal damage. However, no new knockback pose is given to Samus because the knockback timer never reaches zero.
Upon building enough speed, I crouch to charge a spark, and then gain the spark suit by using the knockback frames from MB appropriately.

MB2

Outside of one frame that occurred during her redbeam, this phase is entirely without lag.
The spark suit is activated right before rainbow beam connects, which causes Samus to override the post-rainbow stun, effectively acting as a three-tank standup glitch.

MB3

Precise bomb jumps and walljumps are performed while the Super Metroid is sapping MB, manipulating her head position to be as left as possible, causing her to sit down as soon as possible.
This phase is entirely without lag, resulting in over a second saved compared to Cpadolf's 100%.

Zebes Escape

Lag throughout the area is lower than in previous TASes. For example, Cpadolf's 100% experiences 16 lag frames in the fourth room, while this run only experiences 10.
Just like my previous TASes, 170 energy allows for the spark in the Climb to end at optimal height.
The slightly delayed mockball on the hill allowed Samus to gain and maintain invulnerability frames through the initial steams in the Landing Site without further delay.

Known & Potential Improvements

Green Brinstar

  • 2 frames can be saved in the Etecoons' room by performing a strange manipulation of the sound queue.

Red Brinstar

  • 2 frames can be saved in the room after X-Ray through a more efficient means of collecting the drops during the Waver d-boost.

Norfair

  • Perfect drop RNG appearing as soon as possible for the Gamet farm after Speed would have saved 8-10 frames.

Ridley

  • Drops could have been slightly better by having more Supers in place of some small energy / PB drops.

Norfair Escape

  • The Fireflea superjump can be improved by ~30 frames by performing a normal superjump instead of a stored superjump to reach the top of the room, which I overlooked at the time.

Tourian

  • Perfect drop RNG would have allowed for skipping the last Metroid's drops in the first Metroid room, saving 15-20 frames.

MB

  • MB2 could theoretically be 17-18 frames faster if perfect RNG would occur to avoid the redbeam and align her timer perfectly. (see Saturn's RBO)

Zebes Escape

  • Perfect steam RNG would save ~5 frames.

Additional

  • Further lag reduction will always be possible, whether it be on Ridley or during some PB explosions. However, such lag reduction can depend on any number of factors, such as performing arbitrary inputs at the time of lag, or what sort of random elements are present at the time.

Special Thanks

  • EternisedDragon a.k.a. Aran;Jaeger for discovering and documenting most of the glitches involving X-Ray and their applications, and for frequently reviewing my progress.
  • Taco, Dan, and Total for creating and modifying various useful lsnes scripts.
  • The previous Super Metroid TASers for providing material with which to compare against and influencing strategies.
  • Overfiend for improving the appearance of this submission.
  • The rest of the Super Metroid speedrunning community.

Noxxa: Judging.
Noxxa: This movie is an excellent masterpiece among Super Metroid TASes. The new tricks and techniques push the game to the limit and almost put it to its breaking point, although this run retains its goals of using no major game-breaking glitches or out-of-bounds tricks, so that it does not outright skip very significant parts of the game. The result is a spectacle to watch throughout, even when the graphics break near the end of the run. Samus' movement is trickier yet sleeker than ever, intended sequences are broken more than ever, and the routing is crazier than any of its predecessors. Ammo and health management are top-notch too, and are pushed to the limit repeatedly. Technical optimization is on point all throughout the movie.
Regarding categorization: as this movie is defined by having no major skips or usage of out-of-bounds glitches, this movie shall not be affected by published Arbitrary Code Execution or previously published X-Ray Out-of-Bounds glitch movies, and instead shall obsolete the currently published any% run. Alongside that, it shall also obsolete the currently published Reverse Boss Order movie.
While RBO was a significant novelty back when the category and TASes of it were first introduced, its significance has been reduced thanks to various new tricks that have been discovered since the latest RBO TAS (dating to 2012) and have been applied in movies such as this. In particular, this run features a highly unusual boss route of its own, with Ridley done before Draygon and Draygon done before Phantoon. In essence, three out of four bosses are already done in reverse order, meaning RBO's novelty is largely reduced to leaving Kraid for last and backtracking to him later in the run. Many of the currently published RBO run's famous gimmicks, like suitless Maridia, are now also featured in this movie, and while it still does have some unique features including the suitless health management in Lower Norfair, it does not do enough unique things to distinguish itself as its own unique category anymore - hence, I'm making the decision of having this movie obsolete it.
Note that this does not mean any sort of reverse boss order is no longer publishable, but it does mean that a new movie of that category has to prove itself again as providing sufficient amounts of new and different material, per Alternative requirements. Currently it does not look like a new movie following the same rules as the currently published RBO TAS, but using the same tricks as this movie, would provide a sufficiently different movie to be worth a separate publication again - but this situation might change in the future, or the category itself might diversify itself enough with different rules potentially involving Mother Brain or sub-bosses, but no definite judgment can be made on this unless or until such a movie were to be made.
Going back to the judgment of this particular movie: viewer response to this movie has been highly positive, even compared to previous Super Metroid movies, and has also been favorable compared to the presently starred Reverse Boss Order publication - therefore, my judgment is that this movie should inherit its star.
As such, accepting to Stars, and to obsolete any% and RBO.
Spikestuff: Publishing.


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Post subject: Re: Relative entertainment question
Kung_Knut
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Joined: 8/10/2016
Posts: 85
Location: Sweden
Nach wrote:
Do you guys find this run more entertaining than [2078] SNES Super Metroid "Reverse Boss Order" by Saturn in 46:42.38? Do you find it less entertaining? Or do you find them to offer nearly equal levels of entertainment?
I find RBO more entertaining, because I prefer TASes that look possible for an insanely devoted speedrunner to execute. For me, all the zipping of this TAS takes away that aspect of the entertainment, since it looks like something said speedrunner could never master.
Post subject: Re: Relative entertainment question
Editor, Skilled player (1824)
Joined: 8/25/2013
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Kung Knut wrote:
I find RBO more entertaining, because I prefer TASes that look possible for an insanely devoted speedrunner to execute. For me, all the zipping of this TAS takes away that aspect of the entertainment, since it looks like something said speedrunner could never master.
I mean, they mastered RBO in the first place I think they can master spike sparking or whatever. It's important to keep in mind that a TAS is not RTA done fast, it's a TAS.
effort on the first draft means less effort on any draft thereafter - some loser
Joined: 1/14/2016
Posts: 100
Aran Jaeger wrote:
The banned types of exploits are: 1. Use of Out of Bounds (the exact way as I described it near the end of an older post here that defined it since then: http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=418314&highlight=#418314 ). 2. Use of the Golden Torizo debug code. 3. Use of Memory Corruption / ACE (normally still accessible via Spazer+Plasma beam combinations even if the above restrictions are fulfilled).
If you don't mind my asking, could you elaborate on why glitching through a locked door (at 23:59) is considered In Bounds? It seems unintuitive to me.
InsaneFirebat
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Chanoyu wrote:
If you don't mind my asking, could you elaborate on why glitching through a locked door (at 23:59) is considered In Bounds? It seems unintuitive to me.
Out of Bounds is defined on the wiki as leaving the room's boundaries (most people consider the tiles shown when a room is loaded in the editor as in-bounds and anything outside of those tiles is out-of-bounds) and causing the minimap to point to a blank tile. https://wiki.supermetroid.run/Out_of_Bounds
Joined: 5/23/2014
Posts: 162
Indeed. In short, you can leave the room's boundaries as long as the minimap stays on the same square. Or to put it in other terms, you can go OOB or into the room walls as long as you're still in a valid minimap square.
Aran_Jaeger
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Location: Bavaria, Germany
[quote Chanoyu]If you don't mind my asking, could you elaborate on why glitching through a locked door (at 23:59) is considered In Bounds? It seems unintuitive to me.[/quote] Sure thing. So the inbounds rectangle is the same range as what is shown in the room's visualization here: https://wiki.supermetroid.run/Butterfly_Room Or in more detail, here is a screenshot from the game's editor: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/171753856378732544/417787773055926284/Plasma_Beach_grey_door_room.png In here you can see the transition tiles marked with ''01'' leading to the room to the right. If Samus' bodybox's right-most edge (located at some vertical axis in the subpixels of some pixel) would move for even just a single frame past the right-most pixel (to which the subpixel range in x and y each from 0 to 65535 corresponds, i.e. some squared subpixel range, but not a single subpixel smaller or larger than those extremal subpixel range values at which point the current subpixel position in x and y would then correspond to a different pixel location and not the same anymore), i.e. past the largest x subpixel position that corresponds to this right-most pixel which would be the subpixel value 65535, then at this point the inbounds area would have been (partially, but that is sufficient) surpassed which isn't allowed. And this never happens. Also I'll have to update/fix that wiki description there ( https://wiki.supermetroid.run/Out_of_Bounds ), because with a definition like in there you wouldn't be allowed to start the game at Ceres (due to non-loose elevator rides moving Samus through OoB areas slightly), nor touch many existing door transitions since Samus' bodybox while a transition is running can be shifted past the transition tiles of doors (even though Samus cannot move or do anything during this process, her bodybox would still pass those limits). Furthermore, Samus solid-tiles-ignoringly (which the higher priority of aligning Samus to solid enemies instead allows) moves through the same door-shell in order to trigger the door transition using the collision checkbox from a walljump check in the previously accepted any% TAS: https://youtu.be/SlpcMQ6JKzU?t=1071 To help your intuition: Just imagine Samus shot open the door-shell and enters the door, since in that case, Samus wouldn't have went further away from the boundaries of inbounds either in order to access the door. And the tile-structure has no bearing on the limits of the inbounds area. [quote Habreno]Indeed. In short, you can leave the room's boundaries as long as the minimap stays on the same square. Or to put it in other terms, you can go OOB or into the room walls as long as you're still in a valid minimap square.[/quote]Note that the Mini-Map (which isn't even updating in its usual manner during certain events, mainly during boss fights) can only be seen as supporting measurable indicator regarding the limitations of where Samus is allowed to go, but is not the determining factor (as it could possibly be manipulated or tricked; one has to be careful about such).
collect, analyse, categorise. "Mathematics - When tool-assisted skills are just not enough" ;) Don't want to be taking up so much space adding to posts, but might be worth mentioning and letting others know for what games 1) already some TAS work has been done (ordered in decreasing amount, relative to a game completion) by me and 2) I am (in decreasing order) planning/considering to TAS them. Those would majorly be SNES games (if not, it will be indicated in the list) I'm focusing on. 1) Spanky's Quest; On the Ball/Cameltry; Musya; Super R-Type; Plok; Sutte Hakkun; The Wizard of Oz; Battletoads Doubledragon; Super Ghouls'n Ghosts; Firepower 2000; Brain Lord; Warios Woods; Super Turrican; The Humans. 2) Secret Command (SEGA); Star Force (NES); Hyperzone; Aladdin; R-Type 3; Power Blade 2 (NES); Super Turrican 2; First Samurai. (last updated: 18.03.2018)
Joined: 5/23/2014
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Aran Jaeger wrote:
[quote Habreno]Indeed. In short, you can leave the room's boundaries as long as the minimap stays on the same square. Or to put it in other terms, you can go OOB or into the room walls as long as you're still in a valid minimap square.
Note that the Mini-Map (which isn't even updating in its usual manner during certain events, mainly during boss fights) can only be seen as supporting measurable indicator regarding the limitations of where Samus is allowed to go, but is not the determining factor (as it could possibly be manipulated or tricked; one has to be careful about such).[/quote] My apologies. Thank you for clearing that up.
Post subject: Re: Relative entertainment question
Player (185)
Joined: 10/8/2006
Posts: 145
Kung Knut wrote:
Nach wrote:
Do you guys find this run more entertaining than [2078] SNES Super Metroid "Reverse Boss Order" by Saturn in 46:42.38? Do you find it less entertaining? Or do you find them to offer nearly equal levels of entertainment?
I find RBO more entertaining, because I prefer TASes that look possible for an insanely devoted speedrunner to execute. For me, all the zipping of this TAS takes away that aspect of the entertainment, since it looks like something said speedrunner could never master.
the point of a TAS is to be "super-human" if there is a TAS that a human can execute then the game is either too simple or the TAS too poor
Joined: 1/14/2016
Posts: 100
Aran Jaeger wrote:
So the inbounds rectangle is the same range as what is shown in the room's visualization here: https://wiki.supermetroid.run/Butterfly_Room Or in more detail, here is a screenshot from the game's editor: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/171753856378732544/417787773055926284/Plasma_Beach_grey_door_room.png [. . .] To help your intuition: Just imagine Samus shot open the door-shell and enters the door, since in that case, Samus wouldn't have went further away from the boundaries of inbounds either in order to access the door. And the tile-structure has no bearing on the limits of the inbounds area.
Thanks for explaining. So if I get it right, the whole interior of the rectangle does not really matter for the In Bounds rule; if Samus was somehow hiding in the floor and still within the rectangle that would be allowed?
Aran_Jaeger
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Location: Bavaria, Germany
[quote Chanoyu]Thanks for explaining. So if I get it right, the whole interior of the rectangle does not really matter for the In Bounds rule; if Samus was somehow hiding in the floor and still within the rectangle that would be allowed?[/quote] Yes, exactly. And I strongly assume that this ruling (at least regarding the bodybox of the controlled character, not necessarily for how a ruling deals with projectiles or usually invisible collision checkboxes regarding said character) is a canonical and commonly shared definition that separates inbounds from garbage wonderland that usually surrounds such (aswell mostly rectangular, or even aswell multiples of 16 by 16 tiles large) areas amongst dozens of 2D platformers.
collect, analyse, categorise. "Mathematics - When tool-assisted skills are just not enough" ;) Don't want to be taking up so much space adding to posts, but might be worth mentioning and letting others know for what games 1) already some TAS work has been done (ordered in decreasing amount, relative to a game completion) by me and 2) I am (in decreasing order) planning/considering to TAS them. Those would majorly be SNES games (if not, it will be indicated in the list) I'm focusing on. 1) Spanky's Quest; On the Ball/Cameltry; Musya; Super R-Type; Plok; Sutte Hakkun; The Wizard of Oz; Battletoads Doubledragon; Super Ghouls'n Ghosts; Firepower 2000; Brain Lord; Warios Woods; Super Turrican; The Humans. 2) Secret Command (SEGA); Star Force (NES); Hyperzone; Aladdin; R-Type 3; Power Blade 2 (NES); Super Turrican 2; First Samurai. (last updated: 18.03.2018)
Joined: 12/7/2005
Posts: 149
Location: Sweden
By the way, despite all the obvious big and flashy tricks in this run, my favorite "wait a minute, that's not how physics works" moment is the humble overhead CWJ in the three musketeers room.
Post subject: Re: Relative entertainment question
Kung_Knut
He/Him
Joined: 8/10/2016
Posts: 85
Location: Sweden
The Brookman wrote:
Kung Knut wrote:
Nach wrote:
Do you guys find this run more entertaining than [2078] SNES Super Metroid "Reverse Boss Order" by Saturn in 46:42.38? Do you find it less entertaining? Or do you find them to offer nearly equal levels of entertainment?
I find RBO more entertaining, because I prefer TASes that look possible for an insanely devoted speedrunner to execute. For me, all the zipping of this TAS takes away that aspect of the entertainment, since it looks like something said speedrunner could never master.
the point of a TAS is to be "super-human" if there is a TAS that a human can execute then the game is either too simple or the TAS too poor
There are many ways in which a TAS can be entertaining. Looking like somerhing that a master speadrunner could do in a perfect run is one. Breaking the game completely is another. I love both. I just happen to love the former more. Being a professional emulator architect (yes, that is my day-job), the most entertaining TAS aspect for me is a very detailed and technical submission text on an ACE run. Everyone is entitled to their own personal preference.[/i]
Joined: 4/23/2013
Posts: 59
How did you standup glitch with Varia on?
InsaneFirebat
He/Him
Joined: 11/13/2016
Posts: 6
Location: Athens, GA
DecafGrub47393 wrote:
How did you standup glitch with Varia on?
By activating a shinespark. Shinesparks take control away from the player until the crash animation ends, then gives control back to the player.
Joined: 6/4/2009
Posts: 893
moozooh wrote:
This is the last X-Ray run, it was just under 13 minutes.
i was talking about this run, since it's been obseleted by an ACE, then this run should be accepted as the current any% non ACE (also , how could the xray run be obseleted by a ACE ? ACE goes in the same category as any% now ?)
Joined: 5/23/2014
Posts: 162
Disappointing how glitched a "No Major Glitches" run is but I guess if that's the way ya wanna roll.
Joined: 2/18/2007
Posts: 63
Location: New York City
I intuitively understand some people's disappointment, but I'm not sure how exactly to define a category that would make them happy other than banning glitches completely arbitrarily. For instance, some people are upset that you can superjump through locked doors. But keep in mind the Torizo door is locked kinda maybe sorta and speedruners never respect that, nevermind TASers. That being said the aesthetic of superjumping is frankly awful. If you zip rather than dash, then rather than flying past segments of level you straight up don't get to see them. The graphics glitching out of the cherry on top. But what is this new category that you'd like to see? "no superjumping" doesn't make any sense. That's way too specific to the game. "no out of bounds" is sensible. For instance castlevania games use a similar category. "kills all bosses" is sensible too. "doesn't use cheats" is also reasonable. For instance Celeste. If anything the name of the category needs to be changed. Rather than "no major glitches" it should be: * No OOB * Kills all bosses * Foregoes cheat codes
Joined: 5/23/2014
Posts: 162
scwizard wrote:
I intuitively understand some people's disappointment, but I'm not sure how exactly to define a category that would make them happy other than banning glitches completely arbitrarily. For instance, some people are upset that you can superjump through locked doors. But keep in mind the Torizo door is locked kinda maybe sorta and speedruners never respect that, nevermind TASers. That being said the aesthetic of superjumping is frankly awful. If you zip rather than dash, then rather than flying past segments of level you straight up don't get to see them. The graphics glitching out of the cherry on top. But what is this new category that you'd like to see? "no superjumping" doesn't make any sense. That's way too specific to the game. "no out of bounds" is sensible. For instance castlevania games use a similar category. "kills all bosses" is sensible too. "doesn't use cheats" is also reasonable. For instance Celeste. If anything the name of the category needs to be changed. Rather than "no major glitches" it should be: * No OOB * Kills all bosses * Foregoes cheat codes
There's nothing wrong with a No Major Glitches category on the surface. The problem comes in when stuff that's relatively glitchy comes along and starts pushing heavily on the topic of "what is a major glitch", and that leads to a serious disconnect between people with what a major glitch actually is. If you're going to call something No Major Glitches then you have to define what a major glitch is. And that definition exists. The problem is it doesn't match what people expect the definition will be, and part of why is because No Major Glitches has been associated with allowing only minor glitches (Not a Major Glitch =/= Is a Minor Glitch, and this is the crux of the issue). To get a perspective on the problem, let's look at the OOB definition for SM. There's no confusion once you know what the definition is. Inside a wall? Okay. Going through a locked door? Also acceptable. Moving into a map square outside the game's defined areas? No-go. From a pure "inbounds or oob" perspective, this TAS does not go OOB (despite, at times, appearing to do so). That is a definitive fact. It may be awkward at times (people {not myself} are going to think "clipping through a wall/locked door isn't going OOB!?). But the fact is that this TAS does not go OOB, and this fact can be proven. To summarize: While there may be some confusion due to the graphics, the OOB definition for SM is clear and there is ultimately no reasonable confusion that can be had answering the question - "Does the TAS remains inbounds at all times or not?" - and the answer is clearly "It does.". The confusion that exists with the No Major Glitches definition is because the expectation from the viewer does not match the definition as it's given, and the definition given is not concretely provable to dissuade the viewer from their confusion. No Major Glitches is viewed (as a side note, this same problem exists with bug limit and glitchless rulesets, in that the perspective of the viewer is different from the perspective of the runners. Efforts to merge the two viewpoints are difficult at the best of times and nearly impossible in other cases) as a category that's mostly normal but does include minor glitches despite that its ruleset in SM is different - No OOB, No GT Code, No Memory Corruption/Arbitrary Code Execution (aka ACE). The viewer sees superjumps and thinks "that's not a minor glitch" and feels cheated, even though the TAS follows the ruleset as it exists. You can change the definition of what "No Major Glitches" is but the name itself features your problem - if you don't make the ruleset what the viewer expects it will be, you are always going to get the same questions. The simple solution, thus, is to drop the "No Major Glitches" name itself. In short, the definition of No Major Glitches and the expectation of the viewer for No Major Glitches are often different, and while you can define it however you want, some things go beyond the expectations of what a viewer will believe is a minor glitch, and superjumping is one of those things that, as you have seen from this whole thread, has. Perhaps moving away from "No Major Glitches" and simply calling it what it is - "Any% No OOB No GT Code No Memory Corruption/ACE" - is the best thing to do, since this run absolutely fits that criteria (and is incredibly entertaining while it does so). Final note: As to what I feel a No Major Glitches ruleset would end up being if you actually wanted to follow the viewer's perspective, you'd end up getting rid of superjumps, g-mode, clipping locked doors, likely Draygon Underflow, and possibly even X-Plasma and Bomb Torizo Skip. As much as I liked seeing SM TASes without superjumps, even I know this wouldn't have a shot in hell at getting made, let alone accepted.
Banned User
Joined: 3/10/2004
Posts: 7698
Location: Finland
scwizard wrote:
I intuitively understand some people's disappointment, but I'm not sure how exactly to define a category that would make them happy other than banning glitches completely arbitrarily.
In a manner of speaking, all rules and agreements are subjective, and therefore "arbitrary" in a sense. However, that doesn't mean it's nonsensical to come up with a set of rules that at least approaches what the average person would consider as "no major glitches", by consensus. I really like the Ocarina of Time speedrunning scene as a perfect example. There are like a dozen categories to it (even more if you count all the less-serious categories, which are nevertheless still tracked eg. at speedrun.com) Pretty much all of them have rulesets that one could argue are "arbitrary". However, they have been reached by community consensus, and most of those categories are very popular. In particular, there are two sub-categories to the "glitchless" category. One would say that one of the categories is "glitchless by the letter of the law", and the other "glitchless by the spirit of the law". In other words, in the former some techniques are allowed that are technically not seen as glitches per se, but to the average viewer (at least one who is familiar with the game) they look pretty much like glitches. The second one follows the spirit of what people understand as "glitchless" and bans even more techniques, making the run actually look glitchless to the average viewer. Both categories are relatively popular.
For instance, some people are upset that you can superjump through locked doors. But keep in mind the Torizo door is locked kinda maybe sorta and speedruners never respect that, nevermind TASers.
I think that to the average viewer it looks like the runner reaches the door before it closes, so it doesn't look like any sort of glitch, and thus it's ok in a glitchless run. I don't think most people would consider being "too fast" to be any sort of glitch.
Joined: 2/18/2007
Posts: 63
Location: New York City
Warp wrote:
I don't think most people would consider being "too fast" to be any sort of glitch.
Except a super jump is just a means of going fast. It's a technique for modifying your speed.
Joined: 5/23/2014
Posts: 162
scwizard wrote:
Warp wrote:
I don't think most people would consider being "too fast" to be any sort of glitch.
Except a super jump is just a means of going fast. It's a technique for modifying your speed.
That was in reference to Bomb Torizo Skip.
Joined: 10/23/2009
Posts: 545
Location: Where?
I don't think this should obsolete the reverse boss order. But I don't mind that much. Great movie. :)
Hoandjzj
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Experienced player (659)
Joined: 4/6/2010
Posts: 240
What, obsolete the RBO? NO! It's a different category! Because in RBO you will need a lot of Energy Tank to survive in Norfair, because you don't have Varia Suit, unlike this run which get Varia Suit in the 1st place! In RBO you have to go around collecting ETs and ammunition for Ridley's fight, it's a level of difficulty which Saturn did very good!
Post subject: Movie published
TASVideoAgent
They/Them
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Joined: 8/3/2004
Posts: 15619
Location: 127.0.0.1
This movie has been published. The posts before this message apply to the submission, and posts after this message apply to the published movie. ---- [3653] SNES Super Metroid by Sniq in 35:58.31
Post subject: Re: Movie published
Joined: 8/11/2010
Posts: 45
Location: Virginia
There seems to be a typo with the published description:
This is an improvement of 35:58.3 and in-game time of 20:59 over the predecessor movie.
The completion time is not the time improvement. Sorry to nitpick.
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