Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11631
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
CoolHandMike wrote:
Let's go with completing all the discs. But what does that actually entail here? I would like to tas from beginning to end, from the start of the first disc all the way to the end of the third disc. So as far as a stopping point when switching discs should it be the very next frame after I press fire to defeat the last enemy in the first disc? Should it be the very frame after the last save point? Or should it be after the credits? And yes, each of these discs has its own credits as though they are individual games.
1) Are each of these discs individual completable games?
2) If not and if these should all be considered one long contiguous game, then at what point should I switch discs from 1 to 2, and from 2 to 3?
What's the minimal required action in the previous disk that would properly continue in the next one? Is there any in-game prompt to swap a disk?
I think it makes sense to play them individually as separate goals, and then one continuous play as yet another goal since the game lets you carry over your stats.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11631
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
IgorOliveira666 wrote:
One question: for some reason, would this hack be accepted here? https://youtu.be/29C6oJp9CNA
In short, this is a hack made on top of Newer Super Mario Bros. Wii and it has the levels/map of Super Mario World. It's basically Super Mario World for the Nintendo Wii. However, version 1.0 (the original, which I have no idea who made) was full of bugs and weird things. So, I decided to create a version 1.1 of this hack myself, fixing everything I saw that was bad in the hack and it turned out quite interesting. Unfortunately, I couldn't change a lot of things, including the bosses and many other things, due to lack of knowledge.
We rely on third parties when judging hacks: ideally they need to be hosted on some well-known hack database (romhacking.net was an obvious option, https://romhack.ing/ is the successor). If you can submit the patch to them and they publish it, we will most likely accept a TAS of it.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Let's go with completing all the discs. But what does that actually entail here? I would like to tas from beginning to end, from the start of the first disc all the way to the end of the third disc. So as far as a stopping point when switching discs should it be the very next frame after I press fire to defeat the last enemy in the first disc? Should it be the very frame after the last save point? Or should it be after the credits? And yes, each of these discs has its own credits as though they are individual games.
1) Are each of these discs individual completable games?
2) If not and if these should all be considered one long contiguous game, then at what point should I switch discs from 1 to 2, and from 2 to 3?
What's the minimal required action in the previous disk that would properly continue in the next one? Is there any in-game prompt to swap a disk?
I think it makes sense to play them individually as separate goals, and then one continuous play as yet another goal since the game lets you carry over your stats.
Since each of them can be played from start to finish independently it makes sense to me to treat them as separate games, and then create a multigame like Mega Man 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 & 6 that allows for a run of all individual games with saves transferring between them.
It might be a good idea to formalise that more generally too. For example, we already have runs of Golden Sun GBA. As it stands, we could have a run of Lost Age without an existing save file and a run using a GS1 save with presumably max level characters and all items. But no combination of movies for the two games would be representative of how quickly it's possible to beat both games - even assuming the first game's route doesn't change at all, the second game would be faster than the no save run, but slower than the "max level" save run; and it's likely that doing some extra levelling or collecting some extra items in the first game would reduce the overall time taken (depending on goals etc.)
Wizardry (at least the Apple II versions) and Ratchet and Clank both have this kind of mechanic too, and that's before we even get into more modern series where this becomes more common.
Does debug left over unintentionally is considered a glitch in the context of glitchless?
More context:
Link to video
If you press triangle on the second controller the bridge breaks, saving quite some time over doing it the "leggit" way.
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11631
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
arukAdo wrote:
Does debug left over unintentionally is considered a glitch in the context of glitchless?
More context:
Link to video
If you press triangle on the second controller the bridge breaks, saving quite some time over doing it the "leggit" way.
It's still just an in-game code. It's only a glitch if you access this functionality without entering that code but through a glitch. Or of someone looks at decompiled game code and explains why it's actually unintended.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
The source code is indeed available, the most logical reason that it wasnt intentional is that all others debug features (in the code) are not accessible/deactivated.
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11631
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
That's not what I mean. We don't need to try to guess whether the input code was deliberately or accidentally left in. Looking at executable code for this trick is the way to know if the trick is even there. If the game checks for that specific button and breaks the bridge explicitly, then it's a debug/cheat feature. If the game is not supposed to do it but it happens due to some mistake in the programmed logic, then it's a bug.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Oh sorry, yes its in the source code, it checks you press the button (with second controller) and it break the bridge then.
Is this allowed for glitchless?
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11631
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
In-game codes that don't add gameplay don't belong to standard branches (which glitchless is), but are allowed in Alternative.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
