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Posted: 2/9/2005 4:43 PM
Post subject: Illusion of Gaia
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Halamantariel
Player (105)
Joined: 1/30/2005
Posts: 564
Location: Québec, Canada
Hello everyone I'm wondering if anyone would like to time-attack this game, because it's a game I played a lot and I really liked it. If nobody's willing to time-attack Illusion of Gaia, I could consider doing it myself. However, I never made any time-attack and have nearly no experience with Snes9x's frame advance and everything... So, is there someone willing to time-attack Illusion of Gaia?
Posted: 2/9/2005 4:46 PM
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M.I
Joined: 1/28/2005
Posts: 51
Location: Florida
I used to have the cartridge for Illusion of Gaia. It was a great game, but in my opinion, not nearly as good as Secret of Evermore. :( Even so, i'd enjoy seeing an Illusion of Gaia run. With some experimentation, finding the fastest route and solving all the puzzles wouldn't be very difficult. It'd just be the bosses that one would have a hard time taking down quickly. Some of the bosses were mondo hard, but then again, I didn't have slow-down on my SNES. :P
Posted: 2/9/2005 4:47 PM
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Dark_Mana
Joined: 3/11/2004
Posts: 191
i think the length and planning needed would put most people off. this would'nt be a short run either unless someone found, or knows a serious time saving glitch or path. much as i would like to see it done myself, i think if it was to be tried it would be... oh say mabye 3 - 6 hours. that is prolly a huge understatement too EDIT - oh and just some random info about the game... in australia (where i live) its called Illusions Of Time. funky huh?
Posted: 2/9/2005 8:47 PM
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Unknown_User
Joined: 1/1/2022
Posts: 1716
I doubt it would be 3-6 hours, especially if well planned. Maybe I'm just not remembering the game good enough, although I do know that there is a lot of dialogue. I believe the levels would need an extreme amount of planning if one wants to do well in this run. Unfortunately, I don't remember much about the game besides the awesome fight w/ the two vampires.
Posted: 2/9/2005 9:25 PM
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Viewer
Joined: 6/4/2004
Posts: 284
I don't suppose anyone would want to do an "all Red Jewel" run?
Posted: 2/9/2005 9:36 PM
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Unknown_User
Joined: 1/1/2022
Posts: 1716
There is no point unless you plan on completing the secret dungeon (worthless I might add, since you gain nothing but the chance to fight a new boss who I didnt even find difficult).
Posted: 2/9/2005 9:39 PM
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Boco
Former player
Joined: 3/30/2004
Posts: 1354
Location: Heather's imagination
There should be a 50 Red Jewel run and a fastest completion run.. the only planning difficulties are which groups of enemies to kill (for the stat ups) and when to trade Freedan's attack power for Tim's speed. (obviously most of the time you are forced to use one or the other, and after you get Shadow you kind of have to use him).
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster. I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
Posted: 2/9/2005 10:16 PM
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Halamantariel
Player (105)
Joined: 1/30/2005
Posts: 564
Location: Québec, Canada
Boco wrote:
There should be a 50 Red Jewel run and a fastest completion run..
In my opinion, there should be a 100% completion run and a fastest time run. I think both would be really cool. A 100% run would be great because of the great amount of fighting there would be and also the amount of planing needed would result in something really cool to watch (I think) A fastest time run would also be cool, simply because ... well ... it's fast LoL
Boco wrote:
to trade Freedan's attack power for Tim's speed
Tim? ... you mean Will, right?
Posted: 2/9/2005 11:17 PM
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Unknown_User
Joined: 1/1/2022
Posts: 1716
Possibly a name change in a different version of the game. If I'm not mistaken, some of the games levels were pretty big, which is why I think that planning would be crucial (such as the pyramid level I think, where Shadow has to go through floors multiple times). Not that they aren't in other games as well.
Posted: 2/10/2005 12:49 AM
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Halamantariel
Player (105)
Joined: 1/30/2005
Posts: 564
Location: Québec, Canada
Okay so I decided I could give it a try. I'm first going to play through the game without recording it, doing a 100% play. The first thing that comes jumping to my eyes: The third red jewel. You know this one where you enter/exit the little cave in South Cape, waiting for the fisherman to be there? I'm wondering if I could manipulate luck with this small, but very time-consuming, red jewel. I'll try some things... P.S.: If anybody knows the answer to this ... tell me :) I can't start my play-through without knowing this :)
Posted: 2/10/2005 1:06 AM
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Zurreco
Former player
Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 2687
Location: Seattle, WA
The fisherman's jewel is 100% based on luck. Have fun tying to get it out in less than 5 exits. I think you should try a non-100% before going for all jewels. Just an opinion, though.
hi nitrodon streamline: cyn-chine
Posted: 2/10/2005 1:06 AM
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Boco
Former player
Joined: 3/30/2004
Posts: 1354
Location: Heather's imagination
re: 100% completion How would you define such a thing? All items? all stat upgrades? re: fisherman's Red Jewel It's dependent on the frame you enter the town so you can force it to trigger the first time you go outside, grab it, then go into the cave for the event there, no problem.
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster. I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
Posted: 2/10/2005 1:13 AM
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Zurreco
Former player
Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 2687
Location: Seattle, WA
Boco wrote:
It's dependent on the frame you enter the town so you can force it to trigger the first time you go outside, grab it, then go into the cave for the event there, no problem.
Have you tested this before/can you provide proof of this? I tested this a few months ago when my brother started a 100% on the console only to find that frame and time didn't seem to alter the spawn.
hi nitrodon streamline: cyn-chine
Posted: 2/10/2005 3:31 AM
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Halamantariel
Player (105)
Joined: 1/30/2005
Posts: 564
Location: Québec, Canada
Boco wrote:
re: 100% completion How would you define such a thing? All items? all stat upgrades?
100% means 100%. So yes, all items, all red jewels, all stat upgrades, all dungeons/levels/areas done, all special abilities learned (I think the Aura Barrier is optional), etc...
Posted: 2/10/2005 3:35 AM
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M.I
Joined: 1/28/2005
Posts: 51
Location: Florida
The hardest red jewels to nab without wasting TOO much time, or the most trickest ones, will definetely be the one in the jar, and the very last one in the pyramid. I remember when I had this on console: I got all the jewels.. except the pyramid one. :(
Posted: 2/10/2005 4:48 AM
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TheAxeMan
Ambassador, Experienced player (710)
Joined: 7/17/2004
Posts: 985
Location: The FLOATING CASTLE
I think this game could make a pretty decent run (but my queue is more than full at the moment). However, I think don't think a full 100% run would be interesting, it would just be annoying to have to kill extra enemies. You would also have to wait in line to get the HP and force upgrades, though you can cut in front of some people. I would say the two runs to consider would be a minimal complete run and a minimal secret level run. Getting all gems may be annoying, for example, backtracking to the water town and warping out and back to the Tower of Babel. Some of the abilities are optional and less helpful, though Aura barrier can take out many enemies very quickly if used properly. But this game is pretty slow anyway, it will be one of those where the action goes by fast and then you have to sit through some long plot sequence. Also, I think that switching forms is largely dependant on getting past barriers which only one can do. There will only be a few sections where the form is optional. Even then, changing takes so long I think you would probably try to work it out so that there are as few changes as possible. Aren't all the characters the same speed, except for Will's tornado spin which isn't picked up until halfway through?
Posted: 2/11/2005 3:44 AM
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Halamantariel
Player (105)
Joined: 1/30/2005
Posts: 564
Location: Québec, Canada
While working along with FODA, we found out that the frame you EXIT a room/building doesn't change a thing about the location of the fisherman for the third red jewel. However, we found something about the frame you ENTER a room. When entering the room (in this case, the little cave) on frame 7354, when we exited, the fisherman was there. However, we were not able to redo this. Hence, I don't think it's simply the frame you enter a room. FODA thinks it could be the amount of frames passed outside. In fact, I think we don't have any idea on how to make the fisherman appear at the jewel position. Because of that, I would like to ask for some help from anyone who wants to help. More specificly, I think acmlm, because of his great luck-manipulation in one of his runs, and Bisqwit, who seems to have some great rom-hacking (or ressource viewing) tools/skills, could help out on this one. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Posted: 2/11/2005 4:13 AM
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nitsuja
Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1310)
Joined: 12/21/2004
Posts: 2687
Computer TASer of 2011 TAS of 2011 First edition TAS of 2011 Computer TAS of 2011 Sega TAS of 2010 Sega TAS of 2008 Sega TAS of 2007 Glitchy TAS of 2007
If you need resource viewing, press Alt-A in Snes9x and you can search for what memory address change when you do differnent things, but it'll be a slow process to find anything useful... If you still have a save state where the fisherman showed up, that will make things a little easier. But since it's a one-time thing, you don't necessarily need to plan out how to get it to happen. Especially since you already got it to happen once, and some people say they've gotten it on their very 1st try even on console, so it can't be impossibly difficult to manipulate, you just have to try a few things, or a few thousand things, as usual with luck manipulation...
Posted: 2/11/2005 11:51 AM
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nesrocks
He/Him
Player (247)
Joined: 5/1/2004
Posts: 4096
Location: Rio, Brazil
he wants to understand the process in order to get the fastest time possible, because what we came up with is the character getting in and out of the cave 7 or 8 times before the fisherman actually shows up. not very beautifull. and i couldnt by any means get him to show up on the first try, i had to go in back and forth.
aka Nesrocks http://www.youtube.com/user/UoBtExFODA https://nesrocks.com https://twitter.com/bitinkstudios
Posted: 2/11/2005 12:49 PM
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Halamantariel
Player (105)
Joined: 1/30/2005
Posts: 564
Location: Québec, Canada
FODA wrote:
he wants to understand the process in order to get the fastest time possible [...]
Indeed. The optimal manipulation would be to get the fisherman at the jewel position when going to the cave first, so when exiting Lance's House, he would be there. Either that, or the fisherman being on jewel position when exiting the cave right after the meeting with Will's friends. In order to do this, though, I must understand how to get the fisherman in the jewel position. Anyways ... here's what I have done up to now (and FODA's fisherman after the friends meeting). Link: http://www.parelestia.com/iog_3rd_jewel.zip
Posted: 2/11/2005 12:52 PM
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nitsuja
Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1310)
Joined: 12/21/2004
Posts: 2687
Computer TASer of 2011 TAS of 2011 First edition TAS of 2011 Computer TAS of 2011 Sega TAS of 2010 Sega TAS of 2008 Sega TAS of 2007 Glitchy TAS of 2007
OK, if it's really that unlikely to happen on the first time, here's what I would do: Go in and out of the cave, making a save state on a separate slot at the exact same frame of the transition each time (overwriting old saves in a circle if it takes more tries than save slots). Stop after making the save that's right before the fisherman is appearing. Now use the cheat finder to compare the values between each of these saves, and see if there is anything special about the last one compared to the others, or if there is any logical progression of values to that final one. 'Hardwire' the possible choices to the final value it was until one of them results in the fisherman always appearing the next time you exit the cave. By this point or pretty soon afterward I'd probably have enough information to tell whether the fisherman will appear next by monitoring a particular memory location, and then I could try different things to see if that can be manipulated (it could be the number of steps you've taken, number of frames in a particular location, how fast you got through the title screen, how fast you closed the fisherman's dialog box, etc.). Actually, I wouldn't mind giving this a try sometime, but only if the fisherman can appear really close to the beginning of the game or if I can get a save state or WIP movie file that progresses far enough in the game to be able to try it. (edit: err... I didn't see your post with the WIP when I was typing this)
Posted: 2/11/2005 6:19 PM
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nesrocks
He/Him
Player (247)
Joined: 5/1/2004
Posts: 4096
Location: Rio, Brazil
you dont need to see. he goes into the cave, talk to his friends, do whatever he has to do. then he gets out, (the fisherman is not there) stands for like 3 seconds, gets in and out about 7 times, and then the fisherman appears.
aka Nesrocks http://www.youtube.com/user/UoBtExFODA https://nesrocks.com https://twitter.com/bitinkstudios
Posted: 2/14/2005 6:49 AM
Post subject: 36
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Acmlm
Active player (494)
Joined: 11/14/2004
Posts: 169
Location: Mirabel, Québec, Canada
After messing around for a while and not finding much, I tried a cheat search ... $7E0410-7E041F changes at random time intervals (up to a few seconds), only while I'm outside, and seems to affect the fisher's position. I've been able to get it without going back in more than once, so that's definitely possible ... but the fastest I found was around frame 8240 (to go in), which is about 15 seconds slower than the current best, so either I missed some (haven't tried every interval) or there's something else that affects it ... maybe going in and out a few more times, but I know for sure it's not the button presses (moving around or even talking changes nothing).
Posted: 2/15/2005 3:16 AM
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Halamantariel
Player (105)
Joined: 1/30/2005
Posts: 564
Location: Québec, Canada
*update* Instead of waiting for the 3rd jewel fisherman randomness manipulation to be found (not sure if this sounded right ... oh well), I simply started my any% run of Illusion of Gaia. I am, at the moment, planing my route through the first dungeon, and the movie currently stops right after entering the dungeon (so right after Hamlet gives me the key, I open the door, run down and enter the dungeon, then the movie stops) If you find anything wrong, or anything that could go faster, please tell me. I'll be happy to modify anything before going too far into the game :) Also, any positive/constructive/negative comments are welcome. Here's the link: http://www.parelestia.com/iog_any_percent.zip Rom name and version: Illusion of Gaia (U).smc
Posted: 2/15/2005 3:24 AM
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Zer0
Former player
Joined: 9/12/2004
Posts: 184
Location: Austria/Styria
Halamantariel wrote:
*update* Instead of waiting for the 3rd jewel fisherman randomness manipulation to be found (not sure if this sounded right ... oh well), I simply started my any% run of Illusion of Gaia. I am, at the moment, planing my route through the first dungeon, and the movie currently stops right after entering the dungeon (so right after Hamlet gives me the key, I open the door, run down and enter the dungeon, then the movie stops) If you find anything wrong, or anything that could go faster, please tell me. I'll be happy to modify anything before going too far into the game :) Also, any positive/constructive/negative comments are welcome. Here's the link: http://www.parelestia.com/iog_any_percent.zip Rom name and version: Illusion of Gaia (U).smc
Great someone takes this up! Maybe I get motivated through this project to continue SoM =) I haven't watched the movie, I will do this later, don't have the time right now
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