This topic is for the purpose of discussing #5023: Spikestuff's PSX Suzuki Bakuhatsu in 15:43.41

Strange and oddly interesting, yes vote.

Oh, dang, that's quite a bit. I'll patch all this up and then post the improvement file. If I don't actually complete this in time, requesting the judge to put it on delay. It shouldn't take that long to fix. Thanks Fractal! Edit: Good News about the Moon. It's now the blue wire, so a crap ton of time was just saved. Kawai Rika, both suggestions work. The Engine has been updated, and fixed. Doorknob has been updated. And Done: User movie #28932026074557884 (1415 frames saved) Thank you so much, Fractal for the improvement suggestions. I'll get an update encode up in a bit and updating that submission text... if I'm not lazy on the second one. If I did something wrong, please notify me, it's not that hard to fix input on this game, it's very kind... unless it's the Save/Continue screen. ugh.

Looks like I'm going to need more feedback on this one.

yes vote for the ending song, its a nice one. exept those LOUD alarms, the game is strange and attracting felt a bit like a trauma center... with more loadings and less Satan invocations...

"That's no moon! It's a bomb! Within a bomb! Bombception!" Huh... Spikestuff, what is it with you and surreal Japanese games? Sorry, but I'm going to give this a Meh. I understand how this game might be a challenge when playing it unassisted, but TASing it does not seem to be that much different from if you were to speedrun it RTA. Edit: I stand corrected. Pardon me for my sheer ignorance.

Huh... Spikestuff, what is it with you and surreal Japanese games?

You're asking me, the person who has TASed Tekken more than 10 times in total (counting revisions). Like I know.

I understand how this game might be a challenge when playing it unassisted, but TASing it does not seem to be that much different from if you were to speedrun it RTA.

Re-read what FractalFusion wrote about the final bomb (Ito), Playing on hard, and having a 50/50 no matter what colour is said. The TAS managed to get the colour that was said aloud, which doesn't really represent this bomb well, I've managed to fail this bomb casually, by cutting the said wire, even though it was the other. This is a run killer. Paper, Scissors, Rock, everything can go wrong there, the other Mech can return with what you don't want, which for speedrunning sake, is paper, this is another run killer. Finally, the Moon. This bomb is a 50/50 too, but it's determined by a factor of the electricity going through preventing you to cut the wire, but that's not all, this bomb also suffers with a 50/50, so not only you have to wait for the electricity to pass, you have to cut the right wire. Version 1 of the TAS had to wait for electricity to pass, then cut the Red wire. Version 2, which is this version, had to cut the Blue one. You guessed it another run killer.

^To be honest, if there are only 3 instances of RNG, an RTA would just reset a few hundred times until it gets the perfect RNG, and then it’d be pretty similar to the TAS I take it? Basically in a TAS you have savestates, in RTA you have retries. Sure it could take a long time but people have speedrun games for thousands of attempts and resetting for RNG isn’t exactly anything new (hello Pokémon?). Just saying.

Finally, the Moon. This bomb is a 50/50 too,

You guessed it another run killer.

Just want to get this out of the way before I move to my thoughts on Suzuki Bakuhatsu. The bomb is only 50/50 if you cut it blindly. In each level (except the last one on Hard), there are hints as to which wire to cut, which range from finding notes to read, to investigating wires for information, to using visual cues of the layout to determine which one to cut. Some of the notes necessary to determine which one is buried deep into dead-end tunnels. So therein lies the dilemma for an RTA; waste time to confirm the wire to cut, or don't waste time and take the 50/50 chance. ---- OK, now my thoughts on Suzuki Bakuhatsu. Suzuki Bakuhatsu is one of those really weird Japanese games with a cult following (but not in the west; there isn't even an English Wikipedia page for it). Basically the premise is that someone with a twisted sense of humor is sending bombs to Miss Suzuki, and she has to disarm them. All the bombs are puzzles. Said bomb-sender is also mentally ill and the notes on the bomb are mostly messages professing his love for Suzuki, if they aren't hints on how to solve the puzzle. There are 19 bombs in the game (of which this TAS only does 10). The route map is as follows:

1) Orange -> 2
2) Pistol -> 3
3) Cellphone -> 4

4a) Moon -> 5a, 5b
4b) Rail Crossing -> 5b, 5c

5a) Ice Coffee -> 6
5b) Cassette Tape -> 6
5c) Pinball Machine -> 6

6a) Kawai Rika -> 7a, 7b
6b) Light Bulb -> 7b, 7c

7a) Gunder -> 8
7b) Lunch -> 8
7c) Jukebox -> 8

8a) Ocean -> 9a, 10
8b) Engine -> 9b, 10

9a) Shadow -> 10
9b) Heating Table -> 10

10) Doorknob -> 11
11) Ito

I'm guessing that the route in this TAS is probably the fastest? Moon and Rail Crossing are a toss-up, but you'd have to do Moon because Ice Coffee is so much faster than the other two on its tier. Kawai Rika seems faster than Light Bulb, and Gunder is faster than the other two for a TAS because of luck manipulation (for RTA, who knows). Both Ocean and Engine are long and complex but Engine I think is a bit faster. Note that the 9th tier is entirely optional. Anyway, this game has you unscrewing a lot of stuff. You get a time limit to disarm the bomb; you get less time on Hard. Sometimes, unscrewing something will trigger an emergency explosion timer for which you have to unscrew the entire set in the allotted time. Not often seen on Easy or Normal, Hard sprays this feature everywhere and gives really short time limits (some of them test your button-mashing). Also, some aspects were changed from Easy and Normal to make it that much harder in Hard. Basically, Hard is insanely hard and not for casuals or new players. Regardless of difficulty, the game also plays mind games with you. ---- If you want to see someone attempt and fail at playing Hard, Nicovideo has this Japanese person: (account) http://www.nicovideo.jp/mylist/11420012 (no account) http://www.nicozon.net/mylist/11420012 ---- By the way, my thoughts on each level from what I can remember about them: Orange: An introductory level. Certainly easy on Easy and Normal but on Hard? Let's just say you have only one minute... NOPE YOU HAVE 32 SECONDS LOL. Pistol: Another introductory level. This level has a trap to punish you if you unscrew immediately without looking carefully. The other thing is that the existence of scissors that threaten to cut wires indicates which wire to cut. Cellphone: The first wandering-only level. There are "phones" giving conflicting information to cut red or blue. Only by seeing the vision of a person do you know which wire to cut. (Of course, in an RTA or TAS, you'd just skip directly to the bomb; the wire to cut is always the same.) Moon: It's a moon! No wait, it's a missile! The puzzle of unscrewing the moon's head is tricky (hint is that the whole thing looks like a screw at that point). This level has a dead end, which tells you to the wire to cut on Hard. On easier difficulties, that might not be the case; I can't remember. Also, there's a nasty trap here where screwing a gear wrong kills you; it's deliberately set up so that it's very easy to do by accident. Rail Crossing (not in the TAS): You have to examine the wires to determine which one makes the sound; combined with one of the notes it should tell you which wire to cut. Also the dreaded pendulum makes an appearance here; you have to unscrew slowly or else it will set off the bomb. This level is murder on Hard. Ice Coffee: Another wandering-only level. The state switches between EXPLODE and NOT EXPLODE each time you move. It's set up so that if you go straight forward, you will always reach the bomb in the EXPLODE state. You have to triangulate your movement (as the TAS does here) to reach the bomb in the NOT EXPLODE state. Cassette Tape (not in the TAS): Honestly this level isn't even that hard compared to Moon and Rail Crossing. I think this one has the vibrating wire; I don't remember how the notes in this level logically point to the right wire to cut because it was rather vague. Pinball Machine (not in the TAS): This one has a hidden note telling you which wire to cut (at least on Hard). Also, the pendulums make a return, with a ball acting as a timer. While most of the level is doable, that ball-and-pendulum section is insane on Hard. You are forced to switch between screws repeatedly while unscrewing them. Kawai Rika: Kawai Rika is the name of the pop idol in the last cutscene, but she gets turned into a box because... whatever. While this bomb is rather easy, there is a multi-part note hint that involves digging into a dead end; on Hard, this comes as a statement as to which wire to cut, but then another statement saying that it was a lie. Light Bulb (not in the TAS): This bomb is intermediate in difficulty. By the way, there is a special room in this level with like 20 notes that serves solely to indicate how messed up the person sending you the bomb is. Somewhere in the level there is a hint as to cut the wire that glows in the dark (or the wire that doesn't; this is random); this comes into play when you switch off the light. Strangely it doesn't glow when you are right up against it in complete darkness trying to decide which one to cut. Gunder: This is just rock paper scissors, and it's all luck. Lunch (not in the TAS): This is a forward-only level. The game tries to throw a bunch of misleading information before giving you the choice of wire to cut which should be obvious if you pay attention (btw it's the same every time). Jukebox (not in the TAS): Another wandering-only level. You have to go to the right spot, then logically deduce the wire to cut (again, it's the same every time). Ocean (not in the TAS): Only in this game can an ocean be a bomb. You actually start in this laggy area and use torpedoes to destroy some submarines. When you get to the submarine-bomb thing, you unscrew. A lot. There is a note that says which wire to cut, and another note that basically goes like this: "Take what I said and do the reverse of the reverse of the... of the reverse". Yeah, the wire to cut is determined by the number of 逆 in the note. The message has like 50 of these 逆 in it on Hard (iirc in Hard it always ends up equivalent to a single reverse). Also Hard throws in some really nasty emergency timers, and you can't even see the "reverse" note without setting off a timer. Engine: This is hard like Ocean. First off the game baits you into taping the side broken wire then unscrewing the bolts; if you did that without taping the bottom broken wire, you die. After that it's puzzle after puzzle. On Hard, the game even throws in some really bad emergency timers as well. The note telling you which wire to cut is buried in some dead end, and you even have to realize to turn the gear the right way as well to see it. Shadow (not in the TAS): A short and intense level. You have to knock down the pointy hammers but guard the balloon from popping (which results in death); on Hard, this is basically trial and error since the game is trolling you badly. After unscrewing everything, the game throws the bomb up so it lands in front of you in any orientation; which side the bomb comes down determines which wire to cut. Heating Table (not in the TAS): A forward-only level that takes you back to school. Doppler effect, blah blah blah. The game then quizzes you for the correct wire to cut (it's the same every time). Doorknob: Two words: more puzzles. As if it weren't hard enough, Hard puts emergency timers on them as well. Ito: Climactic showdown with a person-bomb. One thing I like about this level is the reactor-like thing. You have to unscrew the screws but doing so "unbalances" the reactor and if it is too unbalanced, you die. That's why the TAS unscrews part of one, then part of another, and so on. Also, as I said before, you hear "cut red" or "cut blue" but on Hard this is independent of which wire to cut. ---- About RTA: I haven't thought much about how an RTA would work in this game, but I suspect that no one is going to bother. The reason I think so is because of both luck and simplistic design. On Hard, you'd have the final wire, then the rock-paper-scissors, then at least a couple other bombs where guessing on the last wire as opposed to finding the hints saves like 45s each. Getting a perfect rock-paper-scissors by the way is 1/27. So not a lot of people want to attempt that luck. On the other hand, the simplistic design discourages people from making concessions to increase luck. So we have a situation where nobody will concede on luck since "any determined person can beat it with perfect luck", but nobody wants to suffer to do it with perfect luck. Final note: I like this game. However, I understand that it doesn't really make that good of a TAS, and the game having Japanese cult status doesn't really change that (see also http://tasvideos.org/2489M.html , a game with a similar cult status but an arguably worse reaction from this community).

I heard that Spikestuff was interested in doing an all-bombs TAS (though I don't know how true that is). I'll leave the route here just in case. The time on the clock for each level is:

8:21 orange

9:54 pistol

18:37 cellphone

----

> 2:01 moon
  >> 10:12 ice coffee
  >> 10:29 cassette tape

> 14:15 rail crossing
  >> 10:29 cassette tape
  >> 11:42 pinball machine

----

> 15:24 kawai rika
  >> 11:39 gunder
  >> 15:16 lunch

> 23:58 light bulb
  >> 15:16 lunch
  >> 21:23 jukebox

----

> 13:18 ocean
  >> 0:00 doorknob
  >> 6:27 shadow

> 19:43 engine
  >> 0:00 doorknob
  >> 17:54 heating table

----

0:00 doorknob
(no time) ito

Starting from Cellphone and up until Doorknob, the player is given a clock screen and chooses one of two stages to do next. Selecting the next stage requires time for the clock to turn; so the transitions should be minimized. The stage transitions that minimize the time are:

To 10:29 cassette tape:
- From 14:15 rail crossing

To 23:58 light bulb and 15:24 kawai rika:
- From 10:12 ice coffee and 11:42 pinball machine

To 15:16 lunch:
- From 15:24 kawai rika

To 13:18 ocean and 19:43 engine:
- From 11:39 gunder and 21:23 jukebox

with all other transitions forced. Thus the optimal route which has the fewest saves/loads (3 each, the minimum) is:

orange pistol cellphone
> moon icecoffee lightbulb jukebox engine heatingtable
> railcrossing
  >> cassette
  >> pinballmachine kawairika
    >>> lunch
    >>> gunder ocean shadow
doorknob ito

Pairs of >-type bullet points mark save (first) and load (second) points. Saves and loads should be done on the second slot of whichever memory card(s); using the second slot is faster than using any other slot. The Moon branch and the Rail Crossing branch can be switched if necessary (unless only one memory card is used). Contact me if anyone is interested in doing more with Suzuki Bakuhatsu.

This movie has been published. The posts before this message apply to the submission, and posts after this message apply to the published movie. ---- [3092] PSX Suzuki Bakuhatsu by Spikestuff in 15:43.41