So yeah... this is 987 frames faster than the first submission of this game by DwangoAC, 38 frames faster than this FractalFusion movie, 2 frames faster then this submitted movie by xy2_, and 1 frame faster than the fastest best ending uploaded movie, also by xy2. The improvement comes from, mostly, avoiding the loading time and looping once through the game mode selection.
Game objectives
Emulator used: Bizhawk 1.11.4
Aims for shortest input
Manipulates luck
Loses no balls (best ending)
There is a run made by FractalFusion that is 4 frames faster than this one, but it uses 2 players, so I don't think it fits in Best Ending. That'll be up to the judge to decide, though :)
Thanks, of course, to everyone who worked on this game before - DwangoAC, xy2_, FractalFusion and TASeditor!
'September 21, 1998: "The future of gaming can be summed up in two words -- Pong and Joust." ...with these prophetic words in the Usenet group rec.games.video.classic, "Otter" planted the seeds for the game you have before you now. Two of the greatest names in the history of video games have been brought together at last on your Atari 2600. FlapPing is an old school round of Pong (the original deathmatch!) combined with the famous "Flap" button of Joust. Pterry the Pterodactyl is here to keep things lively, and even the walls from the Atari Classic 'Warlords' make a cameo appearance.'
Game manual
Noxxa: The Vault, per its rules, allows two sorts of categories: any% and full completion. The "best ending" here does not qualify as an any more full completion than otherwise, as the only difference is just the player not taking a hit - this does not warrant a separate category for the Vault. As such, rejecting for being slower than this submission.
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I'd like to be the first to say well done on the snipe. I love a good frame war, especially one with such fruitful results. I expected this outcome given the constraints I put on myself in my run (specifically, limiting myself to 30 minutes including research time) and I'm quite happy to see such a short movie resulting in the same basic outcome.
I still find this oddly entertaining due to the input to length ratio so I'm voting Yes. :)
Joined: 12/28/2013
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jlun2 wrote:
1. What game difficulty is this? lol
2. Does "best ending" even make sense for a game like this?
1. It was done in the easiest difficult. Hardest difficult would be a few frames longer.
2. Yes, in my opinion. It's in the same category DwangoAC's submission was, but without the 'walls mode' restriction, as this is faster than the 12 frames movie in the 'no walls' mode.
1. It was done in the easiest difficult. Hardest difficult would be a few frames longer.
Apart from the guidelines saying games should be done on the hardest difficulty, it seems it would make sense in this case as a faster ball would result in a shorter overall movie from start to finish.
I'll be voting no unless there are valid reasons not to do this TAS on the hardest difficulty.
Joined: 12/28/2013
Posts: 396
Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brasil
c-square wrote:
BrunoVisnadi wrote:
jlun2 wrote:
1. What game difficulty is this? lol
1. It was done in the easiest difficult. Hardest difficult would be a few frames longer.
Apart from the guidelines saying games should be done on the hardest difficulty, it seems it would make sense in this case as a faster ball would result in a shorter overall movie from start to finish.
I'll be voting no unless there are valid reasons not to do this TAS on the hardest difficulty.
In my opinion, this TAS is another (see: http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17149) example in which restringing TASing to the hardest difficult is pointless. The difficulty in this game is just about how fast the ball moves, which, in a real time play, forces the player to have better reflexes to defend oneself from a score.
This TAS doesn't even include reflexes, so there is no reason to use the hardest difficulty. It wouldn't interfere in the 'gameplay'. The reason I didn't use it is just because it lets me with a worse RNG and I would need a couple extra frames to luck manipulate.
In my opinion, this TAS is another (see: http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17149) example in which restringing TASing to the hardest difficult is pointless. The difficulty in this game is just about how fast the ball moves, which, in a real time play, forces the player to have better reflexes to defend oneself from a score.
This TAS doesn't even include reflexes, so there is no reason to use the hardest difficulty. It wouldn't interfere in the 'gameplay'. The reason I didn't use it is just because it lets me with a worse RNG and I would need a couple extra frames to luck manipulate.
Well, one can argue it technically reaches the ending "sooner" in terms of actual time because of a faster ball, so there's that.
Joined: 12/28/2013
Posts: 396
Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brasil
jlun2 wrote:
BrunoVisnadi wrote:
In my opinion, this TAS is another (see: http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17149) example in which restringing TASing to the hardest difficult is pointless. The difficulty in this game is just about how fast the ball moves, which, in a real time play, forces the player to have better reflexes to defend oneself from a score.
This TAS doesn't even include reflexes, so there is no reason to use the hardest difficulty. It wouldn't interfere in the 'gameplay'. The reason I didn't use it is just because it lets me with a worse RNG and I would need a couple extra frames to luck manipulate.
Well, one can argue it technically reaches the ending "sooner" in terms of actual time because of a faster ball, so there's that.
Yeah, I understand this point, but my ending choice was for shortest input. If it were for fastest completion, the movie would be very different (and it would be in the non walls mode)
In my opinion, this TAS is another (see: http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17149) example in which restringing TASing to the hardest difficult is pointless. The difficulty in this game is just about how fast the ball moves, which, in a real time play, forces the player to have better reflexes to defend oneself from a score.
This TAS doesn't even include reflexes, so there is no reason to use the hardest difficulty. It wouldn't interfere in the 'gameplay'.
Thanks for the link. It was very interesting to read.
Although there was a fair amount of disagreement in the tread, I saw two points that seemed to get a fair amount of support:
Alyosha wrote:
My opinion would be that this should be stated as: hardest difficulty is always publishable/preferred, while any other difficulty is publishable if the audience finds it sufficiently entertaining.
and
scrimpeh wrote:
Choose the difficulty that makes for the most entertaining run.
I agree with these ideas. In this case, I would definitely find the TAS more entertaining if it were a few frames longer, but had the ball zip around the screen at twice the speed. Also, I find the current TAS gets starts to get pretty dry after about 30 - 45 seconds. Using the harder difficulty to make it shorter (and sweeter) would also add to the entertainment value, at least for me.
BrunoVisnadi wrote:
The reason I didn't use it is just because it lets me with a worse RNG and I would need a couple extra frames to luck manipulate.
So what I hear you saying is that hard mode not only speeds up the ball, but also makes the task of TASing the game harder. To me, that's another reason why hard mode should be used. Even if an easy mode TAS did get published, I would think a slower hard mode TAS would obsolete it, because of the added difficulty of TASsing.
Joined: 12/28/2013
Posts: 396
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c-square wrote:
So what I hear you saying is that hard mode not only speeds up the ball, but also makes the task of TASing the game harder.
Not really harder: to make this TAS I tested all possibilities in both difficulties anyway, so it's just a mater of choice. I understand the point of the entertainment, though I'm not sure if hardest difficulty would really add entertainment value to the run. The ball would hit the walls in a different way and it would create a more or less interesting pattern. It would probably be a bit more interesting because it moves faster, as you said, though there're no guarantees the game completion will be reached faster.
Not really harder: to make this TAS I tested all possibilities in both difficulties anyway, so it's just a mater of choice. I understand the point of the entertainment, though I'm not sure if hardest difficulty would really add entertainment value to the run. The ball would hit the walls in a different way and it would create a more or less interesting pattern. It would probably be a bit more interesting because it moves faster, as you said, though there're no guarantees the game completion will be reached faster.
Okay. In that case, could you make a quick TAS in hard mode and submit it? We could then compare them side-by-side and decide as a group which one to publish.
Joined: 12/28/2013
Posts: 396
Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brasil
c-square wrote:
BrunoVisnadi wrote:
Not really harder: to make this TAS I tested all possibilities in both difficulties anyway, so it's just a mater of choice. I understand the point of the entertainment, though I'm not sure if hardest difficulty would really add entertainment value to the run. The ball would hit the walls in a different way and it would create a more or less interesting pattern. It would probably be a bit more interesting because it moves faster, as you said, though there're no guarantees the game completion will be reached faster.
Okay. In that case, could you make a quick TAS in hard mode and submit it? We could then compare them side-by-side and decide as a group which one to publish.
Yes, no problem! I'll do that tomorrow, because it's already 3:15 AM here and I'm going sleep. If the hardest difficult is really more interesting, I might replace the movie.
Yes, no problem! I'll do that tomorrow, because it's already 3:15 AM here and I'm going sleep. If the hardest difficult is really more interesting, I might replace the movie.
Just to be clear, there are two forms of difficulty switches in this game. It's in the manual up there.
- "Expert" (fast ball) vs. "Novice" (slow ball). This is controlled by the left difficulty switch.
- "COM" vs. "EASY COM". This is part of the menu selection.
Please be clear which switches you are referring to when you say "easy difficulty", "hard difficulty", etc.
Also, an "Expert" (fast ball) run does not necessarily finish faster than a "Novice" (slow ball) run. Sure the ball goes faster, but that doesn't mean the game ends faster.
