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Posted: 1/19/2005 5:04 AM
Post subject: Knights of the Round
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mazzeneko
Former player
Joined: 6/26/2004
Posts: 139
Location: Kuopio, Finland
I know this game would be better to do as an Arcade, but... My best time in this game is 21:45 but there is still some flaws and some groups of enemies could be killed faster (manipulate em in a big bunch)
- mazzeneko
Posted: 1/19/2005 11:35 AM
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nesrocks
He/Him
Player (246)
Joined: 5/1/2004
Posts: 4096
Location: Rio, Brazil
i would like to see you get to the maximum level, but i dont know how to do it. is it so that you need to put 3 players so more enemies come and then only 1 person kills them all??? :S i know that killing same enemy types in a row gives more bonnus, but i went through the game in hardest mode saving states and still didnt reach the top level by the end of the game...
aka Nesrocks http://www.youtube.com/user/UoBtExFODA https://nesrocks.com https://twitter.com/bitinkstudios
Posted: 1/19/2005 7:47 PM
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qbproger
Joined: 12/7/2004
Posts: 69
I'd be interested in seeing a run of this. I spent so much time on this game.
Posted: 1/27/2005 5:13 PM
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mazzeneko
Former player
Joined: 6/26/2004
Posts: 139
Location: Kuopio, Finland
Booo-ya! I finally got it under 20mins!! I'm submitting this. The improvement from this would be only few seconds. It's all about your position on the screen how enemies will move and react with you. Damn annoying... (just like turtles IV...^.^'') If you wonder why my position is odd sometimes it's all about manipulating enemies to move in right direction. So don't complain about that :) I think my boss strategies are okay too.
- mazzeneko
Posted: 1/27/2005 7:14 PM
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Zalien
Joined: 1/10/2005
Posts: 63
Very nice! Now for a question, in stage 4 (after the first big armored guy) in the set of 4 barrels theres a level up staff there. Why don't you get it? I was under the impression that as you get to a higher level you do more damage. As far as things I'd like to see done, would be max level (16). I know its possible when you chain kill the same type of enemys, for anyone that doesn't know you about it you get 1x xp the first one of a set type, then 2x xp then 3x then 4x then repeats again from 1-4. I'm thinking this isn't gonna be very realistic for a speed run though. The next thing I would like to know is how hard is it to manipulate the chests in this game? Whenever you split a chest(attack it) you get a chance to get a red level up staff! I've seen it happen a couple of times while playing, infact thats how I proven to myself that you can't get beyond 16 even though the 999,999 xp requirement makes it pretty obvious. Finally, how possible/impossible would a 2(3?) player run be for this? More enemys while running to each boss, but about 2x the power for the bosses.
Posted: 1/27/2005 7:23 PM
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mazzeneko
Former player
Joined: 6/26/2004
Posts: 139
Location: Kuopio, Finland
Levelupping does NOT make you do more damage. Or it's so little that it's not really worth it. So that's a bit sad. Taking staves makes me lose a second so I'm not taking those :). I try to get other levelups from enemies in places where it doesn't really make me lose time. Like waiting for enemies to spawn or other places. The Max level would take a good 10mins more. The chests are fixed tho. Whacking few chests will turn out to be 3,4 or more little moneysacks. Obviously 3 little bags are worth less than one big chest. And I don't know if there's more enemies in 2 player game...
- mazzeneko
Posted: 11/12/2005 4:55 AM
Post subject: Knights of the Round (J)
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Dromiceius
Joined: 10/3/2005
Posts: 1332
I did it in 33:44, beating the current record by an astonishing negative 15 minutes! http://savefile.com/files/7728269 This is just for fun, obviously. :) I only use Lancelot, for he the most inept knight of the round table. Not only is he weaker than Arthur, but he's actually slower than Percival. I like Lance, though, since he actually needs to block, and hit things more than once in order to kill them. I particularly like watching him go at it with two Tallmen. *snicker* A lot of luck manipulation was needed in level 7 to get to the maximum level at the end of the game. What and if the enemies drop seems to be based on the attack that kills them, as well as the frame number. I don't really understand, but it's not too hard to control. No damage is ever taken, neither by being hit nor by using M-Crush, which I have arbitrarily decided is dishonorable. I managed to get the best ending in about 34 minutes, which is ridiculously slow. I could re-do it a lot faster, obviously, but I find that the second attempt of any movie I do comes out boring and efficient, rather than crazy and full of screw ups. Therefore, for the next attempt, I'm using both players, and a cheat that allows player 1 AND player 2 to be Lancelot: 7E0D5900 The 2-player WIP of levels one and two. The is the first time I've tried controlling two players at once, so there's much room for improvement... about 45 seconds worth in level 2, it seems. The time for level 1 was 3 seconds faster than my single player attempt, however, so it's hard to say if the extra enemies in 2 player mode don't slow things don't overall. Comments? Suggestions? Ideas?
Posted: 11/12/2005 7:02 AM
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nitsuja
Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1310)
Joined: 12/21/2004
Posts: 2687
Computer TASer of 2011 TAS of 2011 First edition TAS of 2011 Computer TAS of 2011 Sega TAS of 2010 Sega TAS of 2008 Sega TAS of 2007 Glitchy TAS of 2007
Pretty neat (the 2p run so far), considering it's just about as un-publishable as possible (you know, because of rules and such). But I think I would rather see the 2 characters be different, for more variety. And I think an Arthur+Percival run would actually stand a good chance of beating the current 1-player submission's time (and entertainment factor), so those are what I'd go with... There is only one thing I've found that Lancelot does a clearly superior job at compared to the other characters, and that one thing is wobbling. Arthur, on the other hand, can match Percival's dashing speed so nearly (using repeated back-jump-attacks) that he won't be a handicap in terms of overall movement speed, and he should deal out more damage than Lancelot would as well (although his power attack is a bit slow to execute). Also, probably an important thing to do for both speed and entertainment is to find some way to juggle around the enemies without knocking them down (which the current Percival-alone run doesn't always do so well at).
Posted: 11/12/2005 9:25 AM
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Phil
Active player (411)
Joined: 3/16/2004
Posts: 2623
Location: America, Québec
Imo, 3 player run Arcade version should be better. Unfortunately, FBA is lacking important features to create good TAS movies.
Posted: 11/13/2005 2:34 AM
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nesrocks
He/Him
Player (246)
Joined: 5/1/2004
Posts: 4096
Location: Rio, Brazil
best ending? max level? i'll watch it now because i've never seen those things and the current run doesn't achieve that goal, which i think is better. edit: damn it's desyncing for me midway through the game... with various settings it still desyncs. i'm using knights of the round (J) but i agree with phil, for these games (this and king of dragons) we should wait for FBA to be acceptable.
aka Nesrocks http://www.youtube.com/user/UoBtExFODA https://nesrocks.com https://twitter.com/bitinkstudios
Posted: 11/13/2005 2:46 AM
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Bag_of_Magic_Food
He/Him
Player (206)
Joined: 5/29/2004
Posts: 5712
Waiting won't make anything happen!
put yourself in my rocketpack if that poochie is one outrageous dude
Posted: 11/13/2005 3:17 AM
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nesrocks
He/Him
Player (246)
Joined: 5/1/2004
Posts: 4096
Location: Rio, Brazil
well i don't program
aka Nesrocks http://www.youtube.com/user/UoBtExFODA https://nesrocks.com https://twitter.com/bitinkstudios
Posted: 11/13/2005 5:27 AM
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Dromiceius
Joined: 10/3/2005
Posts: 1332
I DO program. I'm downloading the source as I type this, but whether I can actually help out is about as likely than my two Lancelots beating the current best time... I definitely agree with Phil that a 3 player mame run of this would rule all. Nitsuja: thanks a lot for the advice. Things are going much more smoothly now that I've stopped knocking everyone down all the time. I haven't tried Arthur+Percival yet, but I'm definitely going to see if it's feasable.
FODA wrote:
best ending? max level? i'll watch it now because i've never seen those things and the current run doesn't achieve that goal, which i think is better. edit: damn it's desyncing for me midway through the game... with various settings it still desyncs. i'm using knights of the round (J)
Yeah, I think I was just barely over the requirement for level 16 when the Desyncs make baby jesus cry. Is there any known way I could fix the movie to not do that? Edit: It occurs to me that since the movie is the same and the rom is the same, maybe our gfx/sound options also need to be the same?
Posted: 11/13/2005 6:26 AM
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nitsuja
Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1310)
Joined: 12/21/2004
Posts: 2687
Computer TASer of 2011 TAS of 2011 First edition TAS of 2011 Computer TAS of 2011 Sega TAS of 2010 Sega TAS of 2008 Sega TAS of 2007 Glitchy TAS of 2007
(How would it help for anything to be the same if it even desyncs for the person who made it?) It sounds like the desync got into the movie, so changing playing settings won't help. For future reference: There are only 3 things I know of that can cause a recording desync with the already-cautious settings you were using: 1) Making a save state, then re-recording from before that save state, then playing the movie in read-only and loading that save state, then re-recording from there. (This will almost certainly cause a desync in any re-recording emulator, even ones with "bullet-proof" re-recording.) 2.) Some games have certain frames where your input from the frame before it gets screwed up if you load a state on that frame. I have no idea why, but it might be more likely to happen when there's a lot going on graphically, and it might be possible to avoid it (depending on the game) by only saving on even frames or only saving on odd frames. 3.) Changing settings partway through making the movie is likely to cause a desync depending on which settings you change. This includes cheats. Anyway, the best (general-purpose) way to deal with desyncs is to watch each segment of your movie after you record it. It's a good idea to do that anyway in case you catch a regular mistake you made before it would require redoing a bunch of stuff to fix. EDIT: I tried actually watching your 1-player movie, and it went all the way to the ending just fine. But, I had the 2-lancelots cheat code on - maybe you also had that on when making part of the movie? EDIT2: Nope, actually, I can't get it to desync at all either way. Maybe someone is using a different emulator version?
Posted: 11/13/2005 7:52 AM
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Dromiceius
Joined: 10/3/2005
Posts: 1332
I just watched the entire thing, from reset to the end. I thought it might have uploaded badly, so I downloaded it and compared the CRC32 to the one I just watched, and they're the same: 4,204,919,959 I didn't replace the movie, but added a zip, which includes the movie and a savestate from around frame 69000, well past the middle. Hopefully this works. http://savefile.com/files/1571578 Edit: I take way too long to write short posts. Ha.
Posted: 11/13/2005 4:10 PM
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Mlandry
Joined: 8/3/2004
Posts: 325
i was able to watch the movie without desynchs... well the 1st rom i tried desynched but i found another J rom and it worked fine..
Posted: 8/30/2020 11:40 AM
Post subject: I need some help (Knights Of The Round) SNES
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Spriven
Joined: 4/21/2020
Posts: 7
so i've been working on a game called knights of the round which is an arcade game that was also ported to the SNES. https://youtu.be/9ceTsDFuLu0 1.0 tas https://youtu.be/uczngBgTnvo 2.0 tas i've made some big improvement's and it could probably still go lower but that's not really why i'm here. i need help from somebody who can look at the code and help me understand what makes the enemy despawn tricks in level 5 and 6 work. it is incredibly inconsistent and annoying when trying to run the game and i would just really appreciate any help. https://youtu.be/uczngBgTnvo?t=513 level 5 enemy despawn https://youtu.be/4MHtfwnqT6g?t=659 level 5 without the enemy despawn https://youtu.be/uczngBgTnvo?t=639 level 6 enemy despawn https://youtu.be/qlx-Sut2ngk?t=842 level 6 without the enemy despawn we have theorized that maybe it has something to do with spawn lines or the screen scroll but neither are 100% consistent. if anybody at all could tell me how to make this work better that would be awesome =)
Posted: 8/31/2020 4:36 AM
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Spriven
Joined: 4/21/2020
Posts: 7
bump
Posted: 9/1/2020 8:50 AM
Post subject: my discord tag
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Spriven
Joined: 4/21/2020
Posts: 7
for anyone who would like to get in contact with me Discord: Spriven#1272 Twitter: https://twitter.com/FnSpriven
Posted: 9/2/2020 12:16 AM
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Spriven
Joined: 4/21/2020
Posts: 7
well thanks for the move to this thread, i guess?
Posted: 9/11/2020 11:15 AM
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Odongdong
Player (213)
Joined: 9/14/2011
Posts: 349
Sega TAS of 2014
Hi, I did an unfinished 2 player run for this game a while ago. Doing on the co-op spawns more enemies than the solo run (and more lags), so it's likely slower than the solo run. http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/info/66003392185605584 About the enemy spawn. I think it has something to do with the maximum number of sprites this game can manage at one time. When you run past the enemies, if you let them come near enough to you when you arrive at where an enemy is supposed to appear, it seems the game disables the enemy spawn at that point so that it doesn't lag too much.
Posted: 9/25/2020 6:58 PM
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Krayzar
He/Him
Joined: 9/25/2020
Posts: 3
This seems consistent with my observations, but just something to note on stage 5: If you do trigger a lag frame (easy to do in 5 by pressing a lot of inputs), the game catches up and triggers spawns normally. This tells us its not just lag or item count, there's some sort of process that appears to be periodically checking to spawn objects. There might be several variables it checks for but the main point seems to be that triggering a lot of consecutive spawns and despawns prevents it from checking for that one last Red Buster, and that in turn eliminates an entire chain of enemies based on that spawn. The theory here is that you can skip checks by taking enough cpu time (which already seems to be taxed in this area), but not doing so much as to trigger a full lag frame. Here's a very repeatable way of triggering the despawn: https://youtu.be/6TMdZWoa3K4
Posted: 4/24/2023 2:14 PM
(Edited: 4/24/2023 2:15 PM)
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Spriven
Joined: 4/21/2020
Posts: 7
https://youtu.be/uczngBgTnvo i should've posted this a lot sooner but i didn't think i could just upload it as a user file, always thought it had to be published xD anyway, here's the latest tas i made for this game...i still don't feel like it's optimal but it's the best i've done so far as an input man. https://tasvideos.org/userFiles/Info/638178657007530861
Posted: 4/25/2023 1:12 AM
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KusogeMan
Experienced player (704)
Joined: 2/5/2012
Posts: 1795
Location: Brasil
i would vote yes, i played this game and i'm really impressed how fast it's being done, what happened to the horse guy btw?
I want all good TAS inside TASvideos, it's my motto. TAS i'm interested: Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS? i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.
Posted: 4/25/2023 5:01 AM
(Edited: 4/25/2023 5:03 AM)
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Spriven
Joined: 4/21/2020
Posts: 7
KusogeMan wrote:
i would vote yes, i played this game and i'm really impressed how fast it's being done, what happened to the horse guy btw?
so if you hit braford into a certain animation he loses all i-frames and the horse has the capability to hit multiple times. what's happened is when you hit him into that animation and release the horse it one shots him sort of because i assume the horse will deal damage every frame or at least in enough of a frame window for him to die instantly...i'm not very savvy with the technical side of TASing, i'm purely an input man and speedrunner. i've ran the game for a number of years and was the one to discover this glitch?...this glitch however does not seem to exist in the arcade version. but all of the bosses have this same specific animation where their i-frames don't exist, the only issue is we don't have more horse's in boss battles xD i really should put out an explanation video on it. it's really easy to do though...just hit, get the animation and release.
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