Posted: 5/9/2015 10:01 AM
Post subject: Can animation frames always give the same results?
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Zelkova
Joined: 4/4/2012
Posts: 5
I am doing a TAS of a game mostly for self entertainment, not even sure if I will upload or not though if I do it will be up to the judges or whatever if it will be on the site as it would literally be the first TAS of the game to my knowledge (which would allow a ton of elbow room for mistakes as someone else can just swoop in and fix everything if they wish later for an improved run). The game is a RPG but an extremely easy one with very little RNG as far as I can tell as even saving/reloading will often give you the exact same results in the battles. Possibly pausing being one of the few things that can change the RNG though I will have to test that out more later. I try to make a TAS years ago but gave up when my options were learning lua or play a game a frame at a time. This game though allow you to speed up both the character walking animation and text speed just by holding A while also auto scroll through the text as fast as possible as a sweet bonus. Basically the whole game is hold A to win when it come to TASing it. The only issue is that you must also use the A button to talk to NPCs which of course require you to press it and not just having it held down at the time. So my question is, if I learn the exact frame of animation where I can let go of the A button during the walking animation without losing speed then quickly tap it to talk to the NPC then would I be able to use the frame of the animation as a reference point of the possible quickest moment that I can talk to a NPC for the rest of the game? Like have anyone ever experience different timing may be required for the same task in different areas of the game or can someone confirm if it works the first time then it will work for the rest of the game? It is a tile based GBA RPG game if that helps so it isn't something too complex when it come to the overworld.
Posted: 5/9/2015 10:23 AM
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Masterjun
He/Him
Site Developer, Skilled player (1988)
Joined: 10/12/2010
Posts: 1185
Location: Germany
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Oh yeah, this kind of situation happens a lot when TASing. Pressing a button 3 frames after [dialog box, animation, etc.] appears, seems to be always the fastest way! After you test that a bunch of times at different locations and it indeed looks like it is always the fastest way, you have two ways to continue:
  • Assume that it is always the first possible frame and continue TASing that way without stopping at each situation like this
  • Always test the frame before the "fastest" frame to really make sure you actually optimized that situation without a doubt
If I only have a visual indication I usually go with the second way. If I have an actual RAM address of some sorts then I often go with the first way, to speed up my TASing a bit.
Warning: Might glitch to credits I will finish this ACE soon as possible (or will I?)
Posted: 5/9/2015 10:33 AM
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Zelkova
Joined: 4/4/2012
Posts: 5
Masterjun wrote:
  • Always test the frame before the "fastest" frame to really make sure you actually optimized that situation without a doubt
I wish I could say I would do it this way but knowing me I will get extremely lazy about it sooner or later. Like I said it is a RPG so while scrolling the text is easy mode I will still need to talk to a lot of characters during the game.
Masterjun wrote:
After you test that a bunch of times at different locations
I honestly didn't think about testing it out though so I will do that the next time I am in the mood to fool around with it. It will be the first entry for the game if it end up on the site even though I am mostly doing it for self entertainment. If it comes to it I will go back myself and improve it as necessary. Assuming the RNG is as non-random as I believe it is then it honestly shouldn't even cause any issues for the rest of the run.
Posted: 5/9/2015 3:26 PM
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ALAKTORN
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Former player
Joined: 10/19/2009
Posts: 2527
Location: Italy
DS TAS of 2012
It shouldn’t be hard to find the RNG with RAM Search. Honestly it would probably help you a lot if you found it and did some basic maths to figure out its formula. I know nothing about the game but just because when saveloading you get the same results, doesn’t mean the RNG isn’t very random. When you save you save the RNG state, and when loading you load it back, so it’s gonna be the same as if you had just continued gameplay in many cases. Anyway, are you sure A is the only button you can press to speed up animations and talk to NPCs? If you had a 2nd button for either you wouldn’t have to waste a frame of releasing the button each time you talk to an NPC.
Posted: 5/9/2015 6:57 PM
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Zelkova
Joined: 4/4/2012
Posts: 5
ALAKTORN wrote:
It shouldn’t be hard to find the RNG with RAM Search. Honestly it would probably help you a lot if you found it and did some basic maths to figure out its formula. I know nothing about the game but just because when saveloading you get the same results, doesn’t mean the RNG isn’t very random. When you save you save the RNG state, and when loading you load it back, so it’s gonna be the same as if you had just continued gameplay in many cases.
True and I guess I could try a RAM search if I can understand how. It is worth noting though that this game seem to be one of the few that I can start completely over and for the early parts of the game everything will be exactly the same as my last save. I'm sure only a few things actually change the RNG on it.
ALAKTORN wrote:
Anyway, are you sure A is the only button you can press to speed up animations and talk to NPCs? If you had a 2nd button for either you wouldn’t have to waste a frame of releasing the button each time you talk to an NPC.
A is the only button that can talk to NPC and speed up the walking animation. B & A can speed up text though though B alone have very little other uses as it is the button you would use to open the menu which 90% of the time would be done to save the game. Think of Pokemon but without the need to use items and rarely ever have to mess with the mons themselves. For a TAS with a very few exceptions I don't expect to be using it all that much. Just checked the R and L button while my mind was on it. They along with the start button doesn't do anything where the select button also just open the menu. To be fair the game is a remake of a GB game so it isn't that surprising.