If you're going to do Mega Man, can we also squeeze Mega Man 2 into the same block? Mega Man 1 is completely broken, while Mega Man 2 still plays through the entire game, but still breaks the rules frequently and in outlandish ways (e.g. the glitch to scroll to the "next" screen, but in the wrong direction).
As for other suggestions, well, there's always International Super Star Soccer Deluxe. :)
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
ais523 and I exchanged a conversation about this on IRC. He's strongly of the opinion that we should have some form of verification, but he tends to feel that Hourglass is close enough and is a suitable platform. Atma suggested Braid, not sure about this one. Any other thoughts?
I strongly disagree. What I believe TASVideos should be doing is representing TASes--not console verficiation.
Having more opinions is always good, and there's certainly no reason everyone should agree with me! I'd like to explain my side of the argument, though: having a TAS that isn't being played live on console at a GDQ is like playing back a recording of a (non-TAS) world record at a GDQ. It misses the point of a live event to show something that anyone could see for themselves just by visiting YouTube.
having a TAS that isn't being played live on console at a GDQ is like playing back a recording of a (non-TAS) world record at a GDQ. It misses the point of a live event to show something that anyone could see for themselves just by visiting YouTube.
How come? It's still the same movie, console verified or not, so what's the difference?
having a TAS that isn't being played live on console at a GDQ is like playing back a recording of a (non-TAS) world record at a GDQ. It misses the point of a live event to show something that anyone could see for themselves just by visiting YouTube.
How come? It's still the same movie, console verified or not, so what's the difference?
I guess mostly due to the probability that things go wrong (which they often do in console verification). Isn't that the reason why people watch marathons rather than just going to WR archives? The chance that the run might not be perfect?
I'd like to explain my side of the argument, though: having a TAS that isn't being played live on console at a GDQ is like playing back a recording of a (non-TAS) world record at a GDQ. It misses the point of a live event to show something that anyone could see for themselves just by visiting YouTube.
Well, to be honest, what we'd miss out on is the whole player pulls of some tight move, audience gasps and claps. To be honest, we'd be missing that either way, console-verified or not.
With console verification, you'd have to get it up and running on a real system and after that - it's just basically a video, though a technically advanced one. I don't see the point of that. If that's the case, then why not just use a video directly or an emulator to play it back?
Either way, we're not going to get away from the fact that it's basically still a pre-recorded video, because that's what a finished TAS is about.
You can still watch regular real-time runs on youtube too. What's mostly different about GDQ is mostly the atmosphere and the commentary. And that's something we can apply for pre-recorded TASes too.
I guess mostly due to the probability that things go wrong (which they often do in console verification). Isn't that the reason why people watch marathons rather than just going to WR archives? The chance that the run might not be perfect?
That makes sense. Imho that isn't what TASing is about, as the general approach to making a mistake is loading a savestate rather than living with it and continuing the run, but I can see the appeal of the chance of something going wrong too.
I guess mostly due to the probability that things go wrong (which they often do in console verification). Isn't that the reason why people watch marathons rather than just going to WR archives? The chance that the run might not be perfect?
Eh... Who'd want to see a bunch of people trying to figure out technical issues with a console not playing back a run? I don't think that's very exciting to be honest. The technical issues will, if anything, make it boring.
I can't speak for others, but the reason that I believe GDQs are so popular is the atmosphere, the commentary and the audience. It's an experience in itself that you don't get by just watching runs.
I guess mostly due to the probability that things go wrong (which they often do in console verification). Isn't that the reason why people watch marathons rather than just going to WR archives? The chance that the run might not be perfect?
Eh... Who'd want to see a bunch of people trying to figure out technical issues with a console not playing back a run? I don't think that's very exciting to be honest. The technical issues will, if anything, make it boring.
I can't speak for others, but the reason that I believe GDQs are so popular is the atmosphere, the commentary and the audience. It's an experience in itself that you don't get by just watching runs.
I don't know. Taking the TAS block at AGDQ as an example, the fact that things seemed to have got stuck and it took quite a long time for the Twitch Plays Pokémon to actually connect to Twitch probably added to the block, from my point of view. Especially as I was wondering if there were technical issues, and if so, if they would get them fixed.
I agree that the commentary at a GDQ is nice, but only because it's one of the only places that really seems to have it. I'd rather a commentated WR than a commentated GDQ. (Or even more so, I've found that some runners have taken to putting route tutorials on YouTube; that fills my desire for good commentary even more so, even though it's typically being played over a spliced run.)
I guess we must be looking for really different things in a GDQ. And that's OK; if it can appeal to very different sets of people, it's going to make more money for charity.
Moderator, Senior Ambassador, Experienced player
(907)
Joined: 9/14/2008
Posts: 1014
EEssentia wrote:
I can't speak for others, but the reason that I believe GDQs are so popular is the atmosphere, the commentary and the audience. It's an experience in itself that you don't get by just watching runs.
This is one of the reasons that I've been asking various people associated with runs if they can help me prep for commentary. Castlevania is on the list because the author promised to help me prepare. Rather than spending time on making something technically interesting, I'm investing in ensuring there is good commentary, and I'm sure as long as the setup is correct that the atmosphere should be conducive to an entertaining couple of runs.
Thanks again for everyone's feedback. For the moment, VVVVVV is on the chopping block and Mega Man is a likely replacement but feel free to make other suggestions, I haven't submitted yet.
ais523 brought to my attention one little problem - I don't get a chance to describe each category separately, so I'll probably link back to the above post in a URL shortener or something. I'll make it work one way or another. :)
I don't know. Taking the TAS block at AGDQ as an example, the fact that things seemed to have got stuck and it took quite a long time for the Twitch Plays Pokémon to actually connect to Twitch probably added to the block, from my point of view. Especially as I was wondering if there were technical issues, and if so, if they would get them fixed.
To me, it took away from the experience and just made it boring. Technical issues are no fun.
I agree that the commentary at a GDQ is nice, but only because it's one of the only places that really seems to have it. I'd rather a commentated WR than a commentated GDQ. (Or even more so, I've found that some runners have taken to putting route tutorials on YouTube; that fills my desire for good commentary even more so, even though it's typically being played over a spliced run.)
I can agree with here somewhat. I like GDQs because it's a good place to find high-quality runs with good atmosphere and commentary and high quality. I'd love to see it elsewhere, but GDQs are a guaranteed place to find it.
Both are good suggestions - perhaps in a future GDQ (I'd rather not take out Castlevania at the moment).
I didn't mention it earlier, but I'm intentionally staying away from the entire Mario franchise, and we just did SM64 at AGDQ 2014.
I think this idea has been pitched before, but how about a short segment showing how a TAS is made?
It doesn't have to be a long explanation; something like 5 minutes, just briefly explaining the basics and showing the making of a very short segment (show how you make a short segment of a game with frame advance and rerecords, explaining both features, and when you are somewhat happy, show the result in real time.)
Viewers could get bored if all this takes more than 5 minutes, but I think a decent presentation could be made in that time.
how about a short segment showing how a TAS is made? [...] something like 5 minutes, just briefly explaining the basics and showing the making of a very short segment
Moderator, Senior Ambassador, Experienced player
(907)
Joined: 9/14/2008
Posts: 1014
Warp wrote:
I think this idea has been pitched before, but how about a short segment showing how a TAS is made?
The game pitch post specifically lists this as:
Category: TAS tools explanation by dwangoAC
Description: Prior to exhibiting Castlevania, I will take ~10 minutes interacting with the FCEUX emulator to demonstrate TAS techniques and show how TAS tools can assist in practicing for realtime runs, followed by the Castlevania Minimalist Pacifist run described in that category. For SGDQ 2015, all submitted TASBot runs will be played back on emulator or using an encode with commentary provided.
Should I re-word the description substantially to emphasize different elements? (I have to re-word everything because ais523 pointed out that I get 420 characters for each *game*, not each category, but I digress.)
Moderator, Senior Ambassador, Experienced player
(907)
Joined: 9/14/2008
Posts: 1014
After re-watching Mega Man, I'm now convinced more than ever that it's the better choice than VVVVVV. I'm in the process of making the submissions now and I'll post a link once everything is done. Thank you to everyone who provided valuable feedback.
Moderator, Senior Ambassador, Experienced player
(907)
Joined: 9/14/2008
Posts: 1014
Zeupar made a steadily convincing case that [1665] GBA Sonic Advance by Mukki in 10:46.52 as shown in Aktan's comparison encode is a better choice to pitch than Super Metroid. Perhaps another year for this one.
I'm scrambling as fast as I can to submit this tonight but there have been a lot of last-minute changes so this might not go out until tomorrow; I don't want to push my luck, however. We'll see how far I get before sleep calls. :)
Moderator, Senior Ambassador, Experienced player
(907)
Joined: 9/14/2008
Posts: 1014
You'll see the games submitted under https://gamesdonequick.com/submission/all (search for the word TASBot). I was somewhat delayed due to the form nuking nearly everything the first time I submitted it. I was able to appease the form system that nukes things when you don't abide by its unwritten rules (specifically, I didn't see anything about having to have short URL's in the form page).
So, everything is in, now it's just a matter of seeing what gets accepted. There are several rounds of cuts this time so we won't know for certain until May. I'll be sure to post updates as they happen. Thanks again to everyone for the feedback!
Moderator, Senior Ambassador, Experienced player
(907)
Joined: 9/14/2008
Posts: 1014
I have good news - three of the run categories have been accepted. You can search for them by going to https://gamesdonequick.com/submission/all and searching for dwangoac - the accepted categories are Ikaruga, Mega Man, and Sonic Advance. The TAS race didn't make it due to time constraints but may still happen anyway by interspersing that competition inside of the other runs and making an announcement about the winner and linking to the results rather than showing the full run.
I will be focusing on ensuring I can provide good commentary during each of these three (non-console-verified) runs. I'll be looking for realtime runners and others who are familiar with each game who can be at SGDQ 2015 to assist in commentary. I'll be playing through each game on its original system because I never gained a good appreciation for Gradius and realized a few seconds in that I didn't actually have anything useful to say about it. :) To that end, if anyone has physical copies of the games that were accepted, please let me know - I'll have to obtain them one way or another and it makes sense to start here.
I'll post updates once the schedule is in place and I know more about what I need to prepare for travel-wise. Thanks to everyone for the suggestions and support through the game selection phase, and here's to another successful GDQ event, this time for Doctors Without Borders!
Moderator, Senior Ambassador, Experienced player
(907)
Joined: 9/14/2008
Posts: 1014
The official schedule has been posted and the TASbot block has been set to start on Saturday, August 1st at 2:00 PM EST: https://gamesdonequick.com/schedule
Time Game Runners Console Estimate Setup
2:00 PM TASBot plays Mega Man any% by Shinryuu and FinalFighter NES 0:12:23 0:07:37
2:20 PM TASBot plays Sonic Advance any% by Mukki GBA 0:10:46 0:04:14
2:35 PM TASBot plays Ikaruga Maximum score by keylie Gamecube 0:21:29 0:03:31
That chart took way too long to make
We're scheduled in the middle of some awesome runs (after Minecraft, Portal, Batman: Arkham Origins, and Dark Souls II and directly before LoZ:LttP, LoZ:OoT, and Mario 64). I will use Mega Man in an emulator to very briefly demonstrate TASing tools before playing the actual movie, I'll use Sonic Advance to explain scripting tools and modifications to the environment to support things like camhacks while playing back the split-screen encode, and I'll be using Ikaruga to make people's heads explode (as an encode; there is a larger-than-I-would-prefer risk of desyncs with the actual emulator).
If there is a Speed TASing race, it will be explained during Sonic Advance and/or Ikaruga with the game choice announced at the end of Ikaruga and the results announced (but likely not shown) during the setup time preceding the Super Metroid race. The goal is to have everything be so fluid that it does not take any additional time during the marathon and provides an incentive for audience participation.
As noted, there will be no console verification planned for this GDQ and my focus remains on delivering well rehearsed commentary on each run. I'll be practicing by streaming on Twitch and I'll let people know when I have things to the point where it makes sense for me to try running through the block to ensure I can do everything on schedule.
Thanks again to everyone who contributed ideas and assisted in getting everything to this point!
As noted, there will be no console verification planned for this GDQ and my focus remains on delivering well rehearsed commentary on each run. I'll be practicing by streaming on Twitch and I'll let people know when I have things to the point where it makes sense for me to try running through the block to ensure I can do everything on schedule.
That said, I do have an interest in bringing along my GBPP if I can make it to SGDQ, and having already verified Sonic Advance...that might make for an interesting accompaniment. I should be able to tell very soon if I can go.
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11492
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
endrift wrote:
That said, I do have an interest in bringing along my GBPP if I can make it to SGDQ, and having already verified Sonic Advance...that might make for an interesting accompaniment. I should be able to tell very soon if I can go.
WOULD BE SUPERB!!!
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
