Super Mario 64 DS in 8:58.41 by ALAKTORN & MKDasher

Game objectives

  • Emulator used: DeSmuME 0.9.10 with Advanced Bus-Level Timing OFF and Dynamic Recompiler OFF
  • Aims for fastest time
  • Abuses programming errors
  • Takes damage to save time
  • Uses death to save time

Introduction

This is an improvement of 52.24 seconds (3125 frames) over the previous published run. Most of the time saved comes from a new route to complete the game, but also due to better optimization.

Route planning

The fewer stars the TAS collects, the faster the run is? Let's prove that wrong!
The project started just a few months after we published the 1 star TAS. We kept trying to find new ways to skip the 1 star door. After giving up (Toads are not close enough to the walls, and all wall corners do not seem to work to glitch in them), we started thinking about the bunny located in Jolly Roger Bay's room. We couldn't get the glitch to work as well, because the bunny was a bit too far from the wall to get it, but by cheating Mario's position, we knew that, if we got the glitch to work, we would be able to skip Bowser in the Fire Sea. In the end, after about 2 years, ALAKTORN found a new way to do the bunny glitch, which consists on jumping and landing behind it. This method is faster and it also allows getting the glitch when the bunny is a bit farther from the wall. After that, we were able to get behind the 2nd floor key door, and this TAS is the result!
Since we need to get to Jolly Roger Bay's room, we now need 3 stars. Going to the basement is still faster than opening the castle's main door. Then, we chose the 3 fastest obtainable stars, which are 8-Coin Puzzle with 15 Pieces, Shining Atop the Pyramid and In the Talons of the Big Bird. We couldn't get the star from Toad (in Hazy Maze Cave's room) because Toad doesn't give the star to Yoshi, and there is some requirement to fulfill before it is given to Mario which we did not fulfill. We didn't get Red-Hot Log Rolling in Lethal Lava Land because in order to unlock the shell you need to complete the Volcano stars first.

Directional pad vs. touchscreen

Most of the optimization we did compared to our previous publication was because of using the touchscreen for almost every movement we had to do. Obviously, the touchscreen is less limited than a directional pad, where you can only use 8 directions. The directional pad was only used when it was totally required. For example, when you are still charging the touchscreen so you can't move with it (necessary between no-input longjumps sometimes), or when you gain Yoshi's control outside the castle because, for some reason, using the touchscreen there makes you go backwards no matter where you press it.

Glitches and tricks

  • Outside the castle glitch: When using a slidekick, if you do it correctly with a certain angle (glitching inside the castle’s wall as you are entering the water), the character is pushed down to the water floor, bypassing the water-entry check into swim animation. However, getting too close to the water’s surface will trigger the swimming animation, making running to the moat door our only option. Also, if you press A or B 4 frames before glitching, you’ll always go to the water floor no matter your position. This is slower than the normal method but due to disregarding position it can become faster situationally.
  • No input: This trick consists of not pressing any direction. It's useful while the character's speed is above normal top speed, since speed goes down slower than pressing any direction.
  • Dialogue glitch: It works by talking to a bunny that is close to a wall between it and the wall. Then the game pushes you out of its sprite, making you go through boundaries with the right position. The glitch is also possible with other characters (like Toad), but the bunny is the only one useful for this run.
  • Wall corner glitch: By getting an optimal angle, you can slidekick or longjump in a wall corner in order to get pushed up (heaven portal), pushed down out of bounds to die instantly, or get through the wall.
  • Direction reset: When pressing the opposite direction that the character is facing, the speed starts decreasing until it becomes negative (which means the character is actually moving in the opposite direction that he's facing). However, if the speed is 0 for a frame while decreasing the speed, the speed will increase (positive numbers) even if you're moving in the opposite direction so that you can start running fast or getting a high speed after landing from the jump instead of slowing down.
  • Glitchy longjumps: Usually, when you do a longjump, it is necessary that the character (Yoshi or Mario) is facing the same direction he is moving in order to get a longjump with high speed. However, by using the touchscreen you can do longjumps with top speed where facing angle and motion angle are completely different.

Second key door skip

This skip is the new skip for this run. It allows to go through the 2nd key door without getting the key, by going out of bounds and entering behind it. Unfortunately, a way to get out of bounds in the Main Hall hasn't been found, since Toad is not close enough to the wall, and it doesn't seem possible to get out of bounds in a similar way as the 8 star door skip in any of the corners. However, there's a bunny in Jolly Roger's Bay room that can be used to get out of bounds, but you need 3 stars to enter that room. Still, it's faster to get 3 stars than getting 1 star and going through Bowser in the Fire Sea.
When entering the room, we first need to longjump forward, then turn left. If we turned left from the beginning, the bunny would run to the other side.
After Mario gets out of bounds by jumping behind the bunny, the movement later has to be very accurate, because you need to walk on the very edge of the floor. If you go a bit inside, the wall would push you inside and you wouldn't be out of bounds anymore. If you go a bit outside, you end up falling down. In the end, by jumping behind the key door, the door is activated as if you had entered there like when you enter a portrait.

TASing out of bounds

There are a few parts in the run where we had to TAS out of bounds, where there are no textures. Technically we do not need them, as we have a RAM watch, but it still helps to see what we are doing, so we cheat the textures in so we can TAS those sections easily.
Here are some sample clips of how these parts look with textures:
- Second key door skip: [dead link removed]
- 50 star door / endless stairs skip: [dead link removed]

Special thanks

Thanks to Got4n who gave ALAKTORN the motivation to try the bunny glitch again.

feos: Acceblishing...


z1mb0bw4y
She/Her
Joined: 11/26/2012
Posts: 70
any drama aside, this was really entertaining. Never expected 3 stars to be faster than 1, and I never thought I'd see BitFS skipped.
ALAKTORN
He/Him
Former player
Joined: 10/19/2009
Posts: 2527
Location: Italy
Eszik wrote:
I won't talk about the money stuff but you sound like an asshole here. TASing isn't about being the best one in the world, if you want all the rewards then re-do the whole TAS yourself.
So I’m the asshole, not MKDasher. OK. I simply requested something I thought I had the right to. I know what TASing is about more than you do.
Samsara
She/They
Senior Judge, Site Admin, Expert player (2238)
Joined: 11/13/2006
Posts: 2822
Location: Northern California
Eszik wrote:
I won't talk about the money stuff but you sound like an asshole here. TASing isn't about being the best one in the world, if you want all the rewards then re-do the whole TAS yourself.
Considering he may have been screwed out of thousands of US dollars*, I'd say he has every right to "sound like an asshole". *Assuming sonicpacker's statement is 100% true: US minimum wage is $7.25, assuming 8 hour workdays that's roughly $58 a day. Assuming 5 days per work week, that's $290 a week. Assuming 6 months (roughly 26 weeks), that's $7540, which means ALAKTORN should have gotten at least $3770.
TASvideos Admin and acting Senior Judge 💙 Currently unable to dedicate a lot of time to the site, taking care of family. Now infrequently posting on Bluesky
warmCabin wrote:
You shouldn't need a degree in computer science to get into this hobby.
Joined: 6/4/2009
Posts: 893
i think those numbers are BS because if you could really milk so much money for a 9min Video (around .46cent a second per day), Nintendo would have already C&D the youtubes accounts and reclamed damages.... but just to close the debate, the real owner of this run is and always will Be Nintendo. In some country's showing that you managed to bypass the hardware protection ( like having a ROM copy of the original hardware ) is enough to make you guilty of copyright infringement... anyway yes vote until the next improvement.
Editor, Skilled player (1536)
Joined: 7/9/2010
Posts: 1319
Nicos wrote:
but just to close the debate, the real owner of this run is and always will Be Nintendo.
Nintendo only has copyright on the audio-visuals, not the run (button-presses) itself.
Favorite animal: STOCK Gt(ROSA)26Sortm1.1(rtTA,EGFP)Nagy Grm7Tg(SMN2)89Ahmb Smn1tm1Msd Tg(SMN2*delta7)4299Ahmb Tg(tetO-SMN2,-luc)#aAhmb/J YouTube Twitch
Joined: 6/4/2009
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TASeditor wrote:
Nicos wrote:
but just to close the debate, the real owner of this run is and always will Be Nintendo.
Nintendo only has copyright on the audio-visuals, not the run (button-presses) itself.
you're right.
Experienced player (690)
Joined: 11/23/2013
Posts: 2233
Location: Guatemala
Plush wrote:
JRB Bunny was incredible. Amazing job <33 No vote of course
???
Here, my YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/dekutony
Samtastic
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Player (154)
Joined: 11/30/2012
Posts: 775
My dumps are ready. Waiting accept then I'll encode.
Enjoys speedrunning, playing and TASing Oddworld games! Has TASed: Oddworld: Abe's Oddysee in 12.06.13 (with Dooty) Oddworld: Adventures II in 20.03.78 (with Dooty) Oddworld: Abe's Exoddus 100% in 2:08:28.4 (with Dooty) Oddworld: Abe's Oddysee 100% in 1:05:01.65 Oddworld: Abe's Exoddus in 37:18 Oddworld: Abe's Exoddus in 37:15 Oddworld: Abe's Exoddus 100% in 2:!5.44.12 Oddworld: Abe's Oddysee any% in 13:01.3 Oddworld: Abe's Oddysee any% in 12:59.95 Oddworld: Abe's Oddysee 100% in 1:04:16.27 Oddworld: Abe's Oddysee 100% in 1:04:01.07 Currently working on: Waiting for Windows TAS Tools to work so I can TAS PC version of Exoddus.
ALAKTORN
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Former player
Joined: 10/19/2009
Posts: 2527
Location: Italy
Kurabupengin wrote:
Plush wrote:
JRB Bunny was incredible. Amazing job <33 No vote of course
???
He was joking.
AntyMew
It/Its
Encoder, Player (35)
Joined: 10/22/2014
Posts: 425
Samlaptop wrote:
My dumps are ready. Waiting accept then I'll encode.
You can start now if you want to, nobody's stopping you
Just a Mew! 〜 It/She ΘΔ 〜
Joined: 4/23/2013
Posts: 59
Yes vote.
Editor, Experienced player (570)
Joined: 11/8/2010
Posts: 4036
That was unexpected! It seems like getting more stars to save time would defy logic, but it makes sense after reading your explanation. Great improvement, yes vote!
Skilled player (1741)
Joined: 9/17/2009
Posts: 4981
Location: ̶C̶a̶n̶a̶d̶a̶ "Kanatah"
Aqfaq wrote:
ALAKTORN wrote:
I never gave you permission to upload this to your YT channel
What's the big deal? People do it all the time. I am happy, if somebody uploads my TAS to YouTube.
Would you feel the same if others made money off it and never gave you a single cent? Also sorry for your lose ALAKTORN. :/
Samtastic
He/Him
Player (154)
Joined: 11/30/2012
Posts: 775
I am encoding all three videos now. Will be ready when the run is accepted.
Enjoys speedrunning, playing and TASing Oddworld games! Has TASed: Oddworld: Abe's Oddysee in 12.06.13 (with Dooty) Oddworld: Adventures II in 20.03.78 (with Dooty) Oddworld: Abe's Exoddus 100% in 2:08:28.4 (with Dooty) Oddworld: Abe's Oddysee 100% in 1:05:01.65 Oddworld: Abe's Exoddus in 37:18 Oddworld: Abe's Exoddus in 37:15 Oddworld: Abe's Exoddus 100% in 2:!5.44.12 Oddworld: Abe's Oddysee any% in 13:01.3 Oddworld: Abe's Oddysee any% in 12:59.95 Oddworld: Abe's Oddysee 100% in 1:04:16.27 Oddworld: Abe's Oddysee 100% in 1:04:01.07 Currently working on: Waiting for Windows TAS Tools to work so I can TAS PC version of Exoddus.
Warepire
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Editor
Joined: 3/2/2010
Posts: 2178
Location: A little to the left of nowhere (Sweden)
The improvement we all were waiting for, and it did not disappoint. Very entertaining, very different from the N64 SM64. A big yes vote.
Joined: 12/19/2010
Posts: 126
easy yes vote for me, the first trick I've known for a while, the early mario also, but after that my mind was blown
live life
Post subject: Re: #4574: ALAKTORN & MKDasher's DS Super Mario 64 DS in 08:58.41
Plush
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Player (157)
Joined: 9/1/2014
Posts: 235
Location: Italy
TASVideoAgent wrote:
<ul><li> Direction reset: When pressing the opposite direction that the character is facing, the speed starts decreases until it becomes negative
Someone edit that. I can't because I'm just an editor (I would be happy to have the permission to edit that) I also feel like gently asking MKDasher to put Alaktorn first on the title of his encode, since he managed to save ~50s of the 52.24s improvement. *runs away because he knows he has nothing to do with this story*
Joined: 7/6/2014
Posts: 24
Location: Canada
Only Mario and Yoshi will have the cake, because Wario and Luigi weren't involved in the game. Anyways, cool run! I like the glitches in that run. Similar to the old game. Voting yes.
ALAKTORN
He/Him
Former player
Joined: 10/19/2009
Posts: 2527
Location: Italy
There are a lot of things in the submission text I would change/add if I were an editor.
Plush wrote:
since he managed to save ~50s of the 52.24s improvement.
If you got that from my YT comment then that was a wild guess. I have no idea how much I saved by discovering the glitch.
Patashu
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Joined: 10/2/2005
Posts: 4043
ALAKTORN wrote:
There are a lot of things in the submission text I would change/add if I were an editor.
Plush wrote:
since he managed to save ~50s of the 52.24s improvement.
If you got that from my YT comment then that was a wild guess. I have no idea how much I saved by discovering the glitch.
You could quote the submission text, then edit it so it looks like what you'd want, then have an editor edit it in.
My Chiptune music, made in Famitracker: http://soundcloud.com/patashu My twitch. I stream mostly shmups & rhythm games http://twitch.tv/patashu My youtube, again shmups and rhythm games and misc stuff: http://youtube.com/user/patashu
AntyMew
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Encoder, Player (35)
Joined: 10/22/2014
Posts: 425
ALAKTORN wrote:
There are a lot of things in the submission text I would change/add if I were an editor.
As a slight clarification, only vested editors and above have the required priveleges to edit the submission text EDIT: <Guga_> Anty-Lemon: Submitter can assign the other players editors of that specific submission
Just a Mew! 〜 It/She ΘΔ 〜
Plush
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Player (157)
Joined: 9/1/2014
Posts: 235
Location: Italy
ALAKTORN wrote:
Plush wrote:
since he managed to save ~50s of the 52.24s improvement.
If you got that from my YT comment then that was a wild guess. I have no idea how much I saved by discovering the glitch.
Yeah I did lol But yeah it's definitely the highlight of this TAS and saved quite some time
Post subject: Re: #4574: ALAKTORN & MKDasher's DS Super Mario 64 DS in 08:58.41
Experienced player (658)
Joined: 5/16/2009
Posts: 235
Added ALAKTORN edit privileges, also changed name order in the encode by request, since I do not care about it.
Plush wrote:
since he managed to save ~50s of the 52.24s improvement.
Didn't feel like it was neccesary to include with lot of detail who did what specifically, but by reading this message I guess I have to. Back in 2012, after submitting the 1 star run, we kept trying to find a way to make a 0 star run, by using the glitches we already know in the lobby. I'm not sure how much ALAKTORN tried here so I can't tell about him, but for me, I tried in every single wall corner in the lobby, in BoB room, next to the 1st key door, next to the BBH door (basically every corner), but didn't work on any of them, since, unlike the 8 star door skip, the ceiling stops you from clipping out of bounds. Then I came with an idea myself. I knew there was a few things that potentially could make you go out of bounds in Joy Roger's Bay room. First one was the hole that looks like the entry for Secret Aquarium (I think ALAKTORN came up with this idea as well? I don't remember). You can slidekick there, and the idea was to get a heaven portal, and then fall behind the 2nd key door. The only thing we could get there was instant death. In the end, I came up with the idea of using the bunny there. I didn't know if it was goind to be faster or not, so I started a 3 star test run, where I got 8 red coins in LLL, which is when I found the glitchy long jumps, then the 2 stars in shifty sand land. Then saving Mario, and going to the 3 star room. My problem was that I couldn't place the bunny close enough to the wall, so I was stuck there: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEOsyRXBXh8 So I showed to ALAKTORN the TAS, asking him what he thought about it, and I cheated my position out of bounds on that wall, and made a TAS from there to the 2nd key door showing it was possible to do the skip just if we could get that bunny glitch, and that the estimate was about 40 sec save (1st attempt wasn't optimized). This was the situation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEOsyRXBXh8 (This video was uploaded months after this happened since I wanted to keep it just in case we decided to go back to it at some point). At the beginning we couldn't figure out the way to glitch there, so we both ended up giving up. Then 2 years later (2014), ALAKTORN tried again, and found the new bunny glitch which consists on jumping behing it, instead of running. This set up lets you glitch when the bunny is a bit farther from the wall, so he could get the glitch in the end:
ALAKTORN wrote:
I just got a glitch that would allow us to beat the current any% record. the catch is, I cheated a little, but my attempt should prove that it’s possible without cheats get hype edit: got it without cheats :) just a matter of optimizing it now, which is gonna be the hardest part…
ALAKTORN wrote:
finally got what seems to be an optimized glitch now to TAS into the unknown… might need some troublesome texture hacking… full TAS should be ready within early May unless something goes wrong edit: texture hacking was simple enough but damn if it’s hard to TAS this part…
So he sent it to me, and I was really surprised about the new glitch. Then I TASed from the glitch he got until the 2nd key, with the route I already thought of in 2012. I ended up being able to get there non-stop in a really optimized way. I had a problem in the end though. I was entering on the left door of the 2nd key door. That entry makes the next part being slower by 4 frames, and in the end ALAKTORN was able to enter from the right door without losing any frames. ALAKTORN wanted his name to be first because he found the glitch which made the run possible, I respect that. Saying he improved 50 secs of the 52 secs? That doesn't sound right to me.
Post subject: Re: #4574: ALAKTORN & MKDasher's DS Super Mario 64 DS in 08:58.41
Joined: 12/29/2007
Posts: 489
mkdasher wrote:
ALAKTORN wanted his name to be first because he found the glitch which made the run possible, I respect that. Saying he improved 50 secs of the 52 secs? That doesn't sound right to me.
To be fair, he never said that.
Plush
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Player (157)
Joined: 9/1/2014
Posts: 235
Location: Italy
Ohhh well Dasher, so you put quite some effort in it as well. Happy to know that =P