Wow, that was fast. And Bowser 2 was great.
spezzafer wrote:
the stair climbing is much faster in both places now
Here's a video of another way to get between the two staircases: www.savefile.com/files/8677360. (From start, so load a save state from your movie from before the room with the first long staircase, in read-only mode of course.) It's 24 frames faster, and I'm sure it can be done even faster with more optimal jumping up the big steps (at a better angle and/or with side/triple/wall jumps).
Havn't watched the WIP at all, but if the other mario runs are of any indication, a TAS of a 3D game will just simply be amazing.
Keep up the good work and I can't wait to see it.
Here's the newer link: http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3067
Don't use the old one...
So it took ya about 1 month to do this short run...so with 2 or more people, I am guessing a 120 star run would take about 4-6 months?
This run would be much faster than starting from scratch, since we have SDA's as a guide. SDA's is already so good, so strategy wise it shouldn't be that far off.
Joined: 4/16/2004
Posts: 1276
Location: Uppsala, Sweden
I just watched the amazing 16-star run and now I can't wait to see the 120-star run. I hope that you will make this Spezzafer, even though it's a huge project. Anyway, I thought of a route for that. I don't know if it's the best and it turns out that I don't know that much about this game anyway. I also watched the 120-star run at SDA again receantly and his route seems to be good.
My first thought was the one wants to eliminate running back n forth as much as possible, so:
1. Start with Jolly Roger Bay with the jumping-backwards-to-skip-the-door-glitch. It should be 8 stars in here with the secret level in the hole in the wall. I don't remember if Toad gives a star in here. That could be troublesome if the requirements is high.
2. Exit and enter Whomp's Fortress, since that door is closest. Get all 7 stars here.
3. Do the Princess secret slide for 2 stars.
Edit: I just learned that you'll be transported to the carpet when getting one of those stars. So perhaps do one of them, and then do Whomp's Fortress is a better idea? And then get the second one after Whomp's Fortress is done?
4. Now I guess the secret level for the red hat is the best to do instead of doing the first Bowser level. This is because you will need the hat for the star "Mario Wings to the Sky" in Bomb-omb Battlefield. So, do the hat-level and grab the star here too.
5. Enter Bomb-omb Battlefield and get 7 stars here.
6. Spank Bowser and get the star and the key.
From now on I'm not quite sure about the route, but I think getting the blue hat is best now, since you need that for the ghost level, unless it's possible to glitch through those walls you normally would need the invisibility hat for.
So hmm,
7. Perhaps entering the two pillars you need to stomp in order to lower the water via the passage to the left of the star door that takes you to Dire, Dire Docks and the second Bowser level.
After getting the blue hat I think entering the castle via the drained canal leaves you near Hazy Maze Cave, right? So,
8. Get 8 stars from Hazy Maze Cave (including the metal hat and the star in that level).
9. Now I think Mips should be caught for the first time. This is because he should be not very much off course and perhaps one could use him after getting the second star from him to perform the door glitches to enter Dire, Dire Docks to save some frames. So this leads to:
10 / 11. Do Shifting Sand Land and Lethal Lava Land in any order (I don't think it matters in which order they are completed since you need to pass both of them to get to the other one).
12. Hopefully Mips is there for the second time now, so get the star, maybe grab him and glitch to Dire, Dire Docks.
13. Do Dire, Dire Docks and the second Bowser level.
14. Do the Big Boo's Haunt.
That's my thoughts for now. From this point I don't know what could be the optimal route for the upper part of the castle. But I think it won't be much trouble.
Does it sound like a good idea, or am I way off?
Which stars are best to use for 100 coins should be figured out as well. I would think 8-red-coin stars make sense for this since that's 16 coins you'd have to get anyway, but maybe that's not always best.
Walker Boh wrote:
1. Start with Jolly Roger Bay with the jumping-backwards-to-skip-the-door-glitch. It should be 8 stars in here with the secret level in the hole in the wall. I don't remember if Toad gives a star in here. That could be troublesome if the requirements is high.
I think reproducing this glitch at all will be extremely difficult, although once it works it shouldn't be too hard to optimize.
Joined: 5/1/2004
Posts: 4096
Location: Rio, Brazil
cool-cool mountain will be especially hard defining fastest way to get 100 coins because it requires entering the slide course, and, unless you get the 100 coins star inside the slide. You can't get the slide star, go out for the 100 star and then go back in from below, can you?
I tried recording some of this 120 star run, but getting inside of the bob-omb battlefield i was 20 frames behind spezzafer. I could try harder though, i really like this game. If people are willing to help me i'd stop all other projects and go for this one. I guess i could start by watching the run at SDA.
Joined: 4/16/2004
Posts: 1276
Location: Uppsala, Sweden
FODA wrote:
cool-cool mountain will be especially hard defining fastest way to get 100 coins because it requires entering the slide course, and, unless you get the 100 coins star inside the slide, you can't get the slide star, go out for the 100 star and then go back in from below, can you?
I thought the 120-star run at SDA was good here. He entered the chimney, slided down, got a bunch of coins. Then we he exits at the bottom of the mountain he teleports back up again to get the blue coins half way down the outside-slope, and that I think was enough, then one could grab perhaps.. a star. Would the first star be good here? Oh well.
FODA wrote:
I tried recording some of this 120 star run, but getting inside of the bob-omb battlefield i was 20 frames behind spezzafer. I could try harder though, i really like this game. If people are willing to help me i'd stop all other projects and go for this one. I guess i could start by watching the run at SDA.
I'll gladly support you in any way I can! mostly with ideas though but I'd love to see the 120-star run more than anything else! I'd definately vote for it ;)
Joined: 3/11/2004
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I thought you needed the metal cap to get the "through the jet stream" star from Jolly Roger Bay. It might be possible, though. Can someone confirm?
Also, if it is really possible to glitch through the wall to enter Jolly Roger Bay without any stars, it could be possible to enter other levels that way. Might be worth checking out.
Joined: 4/16/2004
Posts: 1276
Location: Uppsala, Sweden
Blublu wrote:
I thought you needed the metal cap to get the "through the jet stream" star from Jolly Roger Bay. It might be possible, though. Can someone confirm?
Aww crap. I had totally forgot about that star. That might be troublesome and in that case my plan will be useless. The one to skip running to Bomb-Omb Battlefield twice that is.
Anyway. I got in planning mode.
I'll toss out some ideas about getting 100 coins in a few levels. Again I think the guy at SDA with the 120-star run did an awesome job on this.
Bomb-Omb Battlefield: I think it's best to grab 100 coins with the star that requires the red hat (it might be possible without it, I don't know, but that would require several blasts from the cannon I think, which would be useless in a TAS).
Whomp's Fortress: With the same star as the 8 red coins.
Jolly Roger Bay: My memory might be fuzzy but I actually tried to get as many coins as possible on each stage once ;) I think there are a total of 104 coins in this level (perhaps there are a few more in the ship but..), which means you can't miss many. So I think cleaning the "surface" first and then end in the cave and get that star, will be the best.
Cool-Cool Mountain: The first star, does it appear outside after finishing the slope in the chimney? If so I think it would be best to do as the guy in the 120-star run at SDA. He finishes the slope, teleports back up via the broken bridge, and then aims for the blue coins in the outside slope.
Big Boo's Haunt: Whenever this can be done. The star where you are in the basement, "Merry go round" or whatever the name is, generates quite some coins because you'll get a blue coin for every ghost you kill. So one could perhaps clean the main house as much as needed and end the level down there? On the other hand there are many blue coins higher up in the house..
That's what I can think of now. I'm not sure if it's the best unfortunately but I hope it can be of some help.
Joined: 5/1/2004
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Location: Rio, Brazil
I guess i'd start putting some plans into action, but with little to none optimization (enough to get the strategies to work). Playing at 25% speed it wouldn't take too long to get 7 stars in 2 or 3 levels.
Bomb-Omb Battlefield: I think it's best to grab 100 coins with the star that requires the red hat (it might be possible without it, I don't know, but that would require several blasts from the cannon I think, which would be useless in a TAS).
If you collect every single coin not including the ones in the sky for the flying cap star, you can get 101. But that involves killing a whole slew of enemeis, running around all the posts, and essentially covering the whole level. I imagine would take a long time.
I suggest getting this 100-coin star at the same time as the red coins star, since they cover pretty much the whole level anyway. One could kill any enemy which happens to be on the way, fire out of the canon used for the flying cap star once to get 10-15 coins. I can't remember if it's possible to get 3 coins at a time per coin ring, but I think it is.
This would require the flying cap.
32 coins laying around & inside boxes
25 coins from running around posts
1 blue coin (koopa)
8 red coins
15 coins (ideal) from the sky
7 coins from enemeis
=100 coins
If running around posts is too slow, there are 16 potential remaining coins from enemeis. (12 bombombs, 11 goombas total). Which means one could run around 2 posts in stead of 5.
Joined: 5/27/2005
Posts: 465
Location: Turku, Finland
After reading Walker Boh's plans in which order the stars shoulf be collected, I got inspired and made one of my one (which is quite similar to Walker Boh's)
1) Jolly Roger Bay (& Secret Aquarium) - 8 stars
2) Princess's Secret Slide - 1 star
3) Whomp's Fortress - 7 stars
4) Princess's Secret Slide - 1 star
5) Tower of the Wing Cap - 1 star
6) Cool Cool Mountain - 7 stars
7) Bomb-omb Battlefield - 7 stars
8) Bowser in the Dark World - 1 star
9) go to the basement to stomp those pillars (for the Blue Cap)
10) Catch Mips (the bunny) - 1 star
11) A star from the Toad in HMC lobby - 1 star
12) Hazy Maze Cave (& Cavern of the Metal Cap) - 8 stars
get the Metal Cap star last. Because after that you'll fall down the waterfall outside the castle
13) Vanish Cap Under the Moat - 1 star
14) Lethal Lava Land - 7 stars
15) Shifting Sand Land - 7 stars
16) Catch Mips again - 1 star
17) Dire Dire Docks - 7 stars
18) Bowser in the Fire Sea - 1 star
19) Big Boo's Haunt - 7 stars
20) Wet-Dry World - 7 stars
21) Tiny-Huge Island - 7 stars
22) A star from the Toad in front of TTM - 1 star
23) Tall Tall Mountain - 7 stars
24) Snowman's Land - 7 stars
25) Wing Over the Rainbow - 1 star
26) Tick Tock Clock - 7 stars
27) A star from the Toad outside RR - 1 star
28) Rainbow Ride - 7 stars
29) Bowser in the Sky - 1 star
Of course this would require the long-jump-through-JRB-door to work.
There are also few stars I'm not 100% sure of at which point they should be taken. Those are mainly the Mips and Big Boo's Haunt stars.
Joined: 4/16/2004
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I like that route and I think it looks very good Maza. That should minimize running back n forth in the castle and optimizing the hat-collecting-part. I like it! Since I lack of knowledgement of this game in TAS-perspective I can't tell if it's the best but it sure looks good.
I thought you hade to collect one star from Lethal Lava Land, Shifting Sand Land and Hazy Maze Cave before you could catch Mips. At least somebody (Baxter) told me so yesterday.
In that case, you could probably skip catching MIPS until after step 15 in that list, and catch him twice in a row, or you could switch from LLL early to catch him the first time on the way to SSL (not sure if that would be faster).
Joined: 4/16/2004
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I don't think Mips can be catched twice without "resetting" him. That is, entering another area or level so he starts running around again. That is why I think he should be caught after Hazy Maze Cave because he should then be pretty much in the route.
Joined: 4/16/2004
Posts: 1276
Location: Uppsala, Sweden
Maza wrote:
12) Hazy Maze Cave (& Cavern of the Metal Cap) - 8 stars
get the Metal Cap star last. Because after that you'll fall down the
This could be troublesome. You need the metal-hat for a star in Hazy Maze Cave, the one where you run at the bottom of the lake with the big creature in it. Unless it's possible to solve it in some other way?
So perhaps getting the metal-hat first, then the vanish-hat, and then re-enter to finish Hazy Maze Cave? Would that be better if it's not possible to trigger the underwater button without the metal-hat?
Joined: 5/1/2004
Posts: 4096
Location: Rio, Brazil
Ok, i decided then to make a complete test run playing at 100% speed with re-recording and then post it so we can discuss the route. I'm sure lots of tricks will be revealed in this test run alone, so i'll start by strictly following the planning you guys made :) But it should take 1 week or so to be done, so.. Keep talking! it'll be really helpfull
Joined: 5/27/2005
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Location: Turku, Finland
Walker Boh wrote:
You need the metal-hat for a star in Hazy Maze Cave, the one where you run at the bottom of the lake with the big creature in it. Unless it's possible to solve it in some other way?
So perhaps getting the metal-hat first, then the vanish-hat, and then re-enter to finish Hazy Maze Cave? Would that be better if it's not possible to trigger the underwater button without the metal-hat?
Oh yeah. I completely forgot that star. Nice one Walker Boh ;)
So the route should go pretty much like this:
Get a star from the Toad in HMC lobby.
Enter Hazy Maze Cave and get the Cavern of the Metal Cap star (and activate the Metal Cap).
Get the Vanish Cap Under the Moat star (and activate the Vanish Cap).
Go back to HMC and get all 7 stars from there.
Go to Lethal Lava Land and get all 7 stars from there.
Joined: 4/16/2004
Posts: 1276
Location: Uppsala, Sweden
Yeah. That seems to work, and to do Lethal Lava Land before Shifting Sand Land might be better too, even though I don't think it makes a huge different if one does it the other way around.
Since I only recently bought an N64 and Mario 64...I have never actually gotten 120 stars...but I do know that I pretty much only played Lethal Lava Land. I never went into Shifting Sand Land and Hazy Maze Cave...and MIPS still appeared for me.
