I think that camera angles matter, and the latest ones weren't too great.
However, it's really not a big deal. This run is for fastest completion, right? If the frame count is 100% optimized, there's no need to redo it. In a run like FODA's angles absolutely matter; he's sacrificing frames for entertainment, so the angles should be entertaining. In this, it's not a huge problem.
This is where the argument comes when the entertainment people seperate themselves from the speed people. To take a firm stance I'd prefer games to go for the fastest time while being entertaining without the sacrifice of speed.
Joined: 12/27/2006
Posts: 532
Location: Göteborg, Sweden
AKA wrote:
This is where the argument comes when the entertainment people seperate themselves from the speed people. To take a firm stance I'd prefer games to go for the fastest time while being entertaining but without the sacrifice of speed.
Agreed.
My published movies
[03:45:05] <Naohiro19> Soulrivers: ...
[03:45:19] <Soulrivers> ?
[03:46:35] <Naohiro19> <Soulrivers> No! <Naohiro19> So? <Soulrivers> Yes!
[03:46:48] <Naohiro19> joke
Joined: 5/1/2004
Posts: 4096
Location: Rio, Brazil
AngerFist wrote:
FODA wrote:
this site is for entertainment, not "what if fastest completion". especially a long run. but hey, that's just me...
I think you are heavily contradicting yourself by saying this. If this is true, then you would not have submitted your recent Alex Kidd run and other runs.
I fixed the problems with the speed part, but If there were speed for entertainment trades I'd keep them.
The fixes rikku is doing to the speed side of this run are great, but I don't agree to NOT think about entertainment at all! he's going mathematically trying to take frames. There's a run for that and it's the "aims for fastest completion" one. This is the "aims for fastest completion, but hey let's take all stars because it's fun!". In this sense, I think he shouldn't be so strict and spend 3 frames to take a fixed camera for example.
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
hey, shifting sands was a very good level rikku! again, one point or two you brought the camera WAY too close, but overall there was lots of improvement and Mario kept an insane pace throughout all 7 stars. good job!
Joined: 5/2/2006
Posts: 1020
Location: Boulder, CO
Really good progress overall.
One thing though-- is there a reason you didnt jump before the text started on the "stand atop the 4 pillars" star? (the one with the two sandstone hands)
Even if it does help he difference will be small, but just wondering.
Really good progress overall.
One thing though-- is there a reason you didnt jump before the text started on the "stand atop the 4 pillars" star? (the one with the two sandstone hands)
Even if it does help he difference will be small, but just wondering.
this site is for entertainment, not "what if fastest completion". especially a long run. but hey, that's just me...
I think you are heavily contradicting yourself by saying this. If this is true, then you would not have submitted your recent Alex Kidd run and other runs.
I fixed the problems with the speed part, but If there were speed for entertainment trades I'd keep them.
The fixes rikku is doing to the speed side of this run are great, but I don't agree to NOT think about entertainment at all! he's going mathematically trying to take frames. There's a run for that and it's the "aims for fastest completion" one. This is the "aims for fastest completion, but hey let's take all stars because it's fun!". In this sense, I think he shouldn't be so strict and spend 3 frames to take a fixed camera for example.
Why did you bother to even use any speed at all, if all you were aiming for was entertainment? Some of your stars were very boring, and yet you could have come up with an entertaining way to retrieve them instead. But you didn't. You always used the fastest known route. Seems kind of contradictory.
Joined: 10/31/2005
Posts: 329
Location: The Netherlands
maybe it's just me, but subjective goals aren't quite reachable, since opinions differ. but a goal such as speed, noone can deny when one run is faster than the other. showing more of a game is cool and fun, but if speed is to be sacrificed for it, why not just make a separate small movie of the cool thing, and let the actual run be as speedy as light (assuming that's the fastest possible speed). if people really care about the cool stuff, they'd go out of their way to get the small videos themselves, without them necessairily being published. you could always link them from there too.
Joined: 5/2/2006
Posts: 1020
Location: Boulder, CO
As much as a vocal few might dislike it, movies get obsoleted on time, not entertainment.
Argueing over litle points in a movie as undeniably awsome as this one is moot, if it ends up faster, (and it will be, by 2 minutes at least) it will obsolete the current 120 star run. Rikku should not, and will not be held to the "entertainment" sacrifices in the previous version.
That said, FODA makes a good point. If the cost is low enough, there is no reason not to fix the camera angle. As long as the cost is low enough. If its more then a second or two over the whole run, I would say its too much, but that is best left to the author.
Joined: 5/1/2004
Posts: 4096
Location: Rio, Brazil
Like you said, it's the author's choice. If he makes a movie aiming for fastest time, it's ok.
I'm just wondering what would happen if i submit a more entertaining movie 1 second slower.
Nobody can question if a run is faster than another one but which one of the two is more entertaining is subjective, hence I cannot see why a slower run would be published.
So, for example, if there was a way to fix the camera so that it won't show almost anything except Mario's back, and the resulting run would be about 10 minutes faster than the published, according to this statement it'd be preferrable?
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
So, for example, if there was a way to fix the camera so that it won't show almost anything except Mario's back, and the resulting run would be about 10 minutes faster than the published, according to this statement it'd be preferrable?
That would actually be more impressive if anything, since its kind of hard to TAS when you can't see what you're properly doing. If the giant zoom lens, got used at the start of a star all the way till Mario collects a star, would you complain if Mario was only a pixel in the distance? Momentary confusing or hard angles never hurt espeacially if they grab the viewers attention, before resorting to a more favourable angle.
That would actually be more impressive if anything, since its kind of hard to TAS when you can't see what you're properly doing.
That could've been impressive in an unassisted run, but not in a TAS where angles, positions and timing are somewhat easily [pre-]determined. And I don't care how hard it was for the author to make it: if it looks bad, I can't help but to vote no or turn it down any other way.
AKA wrote:
If the giant zoom lens, got used at the start of a star all the way till Mario collects a star, would you complain if Mario was only a pixel in the distance?
Yes I would, and that would be the most sucking movie since the sucker came to sucktown.
Also, Guidelines wrote:
In games that have user-controllable camera, try to control the camera so that it provides most interesting or beautiful angles at all time instead of going with default settings.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
So, for example, if there was a way to fix the camera so that it won't show almost anything except Mario's back, and the resulting run would be about 10 minutes faster than the published, according to this statement it'd be preferrable?
I'd prefer it ... dunno about others though.
Borg Collective wrote:
Negotiation is irrelevant. Self-determination is irrelevant. You will be assimilated.
So you would watch Mario's back instead of more interesting action for 1.5 hours? Wow.
Let me express a big meh towards numbers obsession and WR mentality here.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
So you would watch Mario's back instead of more interesting action for 1.5 hours? Wow.
Let me express a big meh towards numbers obsession and WR mentality here.
If I want entertainment, I would go to my local theater.
Borg Collective wrote:
Negotiation is irrelevant. Self-determination is irrelevant. You will be assimilated.
