This is a Tool-assisted Speedrun on Duke Nukem 3D for SEGA Genesis. It is 4 min, 9 secs faster than my previous run! I had a good time TASing this game because I had lots of free time and my old TAS for comparing.
Game objectives:
Emulator used: GENS-rerecording v11a
Aims for the fastest time
Take damage to save the time
Hardest difficulty
AI manipulation
Genre: First Person Shooter
Comments:
This is the hardest port of Duke Nukem 3D with a pased-down engine for a 16-bit hardware so it looks like Doom and Wolfenstein 3D. Enemies like Pig Cops, Assault Captains and Assault Enforcers have increased Damage per Minute (DPM) and it was hard to stay indamaged. There are 9 maps: all are pased-down; from the 2nd episode of PC Duke Nukem 3D.
I think it's the best FPS for Genesis. It has beautiful graphics, smartly copied sounds from PC-version, you can pick up thrown pipe bomb and throw it again, Duke can even tell you: "What are you waiting for??? Christmas??, if you don't press any button on your joystick for some time!
Stage comments:
Generally, all the maps are passed in the fastest time and a little playaround added while waiting for the elevators. I used the fastest possible movement (running and strafing at the same time), now all the routes are the fastest and all mistakes are fixed, I used lots of AI manipulation to keep my health in normal condition because I didn't take much medicine. Also I found a good use to pipe bombs in Occupied Territory map and saved much time by changing actions! Another main difficulty is the control: no crosshair and turning speeds up (especially in Space), difficult aiming after strafing!
I don't know what else to add! If you have a question, ask me in discussion topic! I'll explain everything!
Joined: 10/12/2011
Posts: 6450
Location: The land down under.
Dimon12321 wrote:
because they are negatively valued by society!
6 No
6 Yes
6 Meh
6 * 6 * 6 = 216
2 + 1 + 6 = 9
3 Numbers
9/3 = 3
HALF LIFE 3 CONFIRMED!!!
Also number of the beast.
Last time I looked into this game I was sick of it real quickly... did not want to check optimizations as soon as I got to the second door in the game.
WebNations/Sabih wrote:
+fsvgm777 never censoring anything.
Disables Comments and Ratings for the YouTube account.Something better for yourself and also others.
6 No
6 Yes
6 Meh
6 * 6 * 6 = 216
2 + 1 + 6 = 9
3 Numbers
9/3 = 3
HALF LIFE 3 CONFIRMED!!!
Also number of the beast.
Last time I looked into this game I was sick of it real quickly... did not want to check optimizations as soon as I got to the second door in the game.
Looking forward to it too!
About 3, my next project is Robocop 3 for Genesis. Topic will be today.
TASing is like making a film: only the best takes are shown in the final movie.
I'm really not convinced that's the case, especially with all the idle time in the elevator that I'm pretty sure could be used to manipulate the RNG if needed.
If you talk about Duke Nukem, enemies start doing actions when they notice Duke. It depends on time and character's position at the moment of detection. There is no point in walking around or wasting ammo in the elevator or in any other place where no-one is seeing him! Of course, the enemies which saw him are walking towards his direction (in the wall) and still do random actions (walking around or shooting) when they see him again. But I can't explain why do lasergunners shoot in walls after Duke has already ran away!
TASing is like making a film: only the best takes are shown in the final movie.
I'm really not convinced that's the case, especially with all the idle time in the elevator that I'm pretty sure could be used to manipulate the RNG if needed.
If you talk about Duke Nukem, enemies start doing actions when they notice Duke. It depends on time and character's position at the moment of detection. There is no point in walking around or wasting ammo in the elevator or in any other place where no-one is seeing him! Of course, the enemies which saw him are walking towards his direction (in the wall) and still do random actions (walking around or shooting) when they see him again. But I can't explain why do lasergunners shoot in walls after Duke has already ran away!
I find it exceptionally difficult to believe that you took a distinctly slower action that far ahead of when the AI manipulation was actually needed. If you had waited to press the button or waited to leave the elevator some number of frames (if indeed "when enemy sees you" is the trigger for their behavior), you might have been able to convince me. That wouldn't have looked so obviously unoptimized as well.
Joined: 12/8/2012
Posts: 706
Location: Missouri, USA
Tangent wrote:
Dimon12321 wrote:
Tangent wrote:
I'm really not convinced that's the case, especially with all the idle time in the elevator that I'm pretty sure could be used to manipulate the RNG if needed.
If you talk about Duke Nukem, enemies start doing actions when they notice Duke. It depends on time and character's position at the moment of detection. There is no point in walking around or wasting ammo in the elevator or in any other place where no-one is seeing him! Of course, the enemies which saw him are walking towards his direction (in the wall) and still do random actions (walking around or shooting) when they see him again. But I can't explain why do lasergunners shoot in walls after Duke has already ran away!
I find it exceptionally difficult to believe that you took a distinctly slower action that far ahead of when the AI manipulation was actually needed. If you had waited to press the button or waited to leave the elevator some number of frames (if indeed "when enemy sees you" is the trigger for their behavior), you might have been able to convince me. That wouldn't have looked so obviously unoptimized as well.
Dude, does it matter that much? You've been hammering him over this for 2 pages now. At the most, it's a small optimization error that he overlooked.
Lol, c'mon.
"But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him." - 1 Corinthians 2:9
I'm agreeing with Tangent here; a small optimization error isn't a problem, but it seems like he can't even explain it himself (although "oops" would be perfectly acceptable), which (to me) suggests there might be a more substantial problem.
Or to put it another way, it took two pages of trying to get an unconvincing answer.
Looks like it's you don't understand what I've written to you!
Here is my PROOF to you and Scepheo!
In this movie I pressed the button in the fastest time as you claimed expect to be and continued my route with the fastest time (no changes in input), but as I much said before, when the enemy noticed me, he shot at me instead of walking around like in my current TAS! Even twice, but I finished the input just before his second shot because I've already showed the AI change!
Any more questions, gentleman?
TASing is like making a film: only the best takes are shown in the final movie.
Aye, (haven't looked at it yet) did you use the optimal input?
No, the same! I've entered 1 frame in TAS Editor for a button press and continued recording after I've stand to the door. I suggest you to watch it in frame advance to see the change!
EDIT: Yes, the optimal!
TASing is like making a film: only the best takes are shown in the final movie.
Or to put it another way, it took two pages of trying to get an unconvincing answer.
Looks like it's you don't understand what I've written to you!
Here is my PROOF to you and Scepheo!
In this movie I pressed the button in the fastest time as you claimed expect to be and continued my route with the fastest time (no changes in input), but as I much said before, when the enemy noticed me, he shot at me instead of walking around like in my current TAS! Even twice, but I finished the input just before his second shot because I've already showed the AI change!
Any more questions, gentleman?
So what if he shoots at you twice instead of once? Not 30 seconds later, you have 82 health and pick up a large medkit (+30 health). You have a spare 12 health that you can lose before that point for no time loss. What's more, there's two more medkits at around the 14/14.5 marks that you come within half a step of taking but don't. It would obviously be less time to take an extra half step forward at either of those places than the delayed elevator activation.
So what if he shoots at you twice instead of once? Not 30 seconds later, you have 82 health and pick up a large medkit (+30 health). You have a spare 12 health that you can lose before that point for no time loss. What's more, there's two more medkits at around the 14/14.5 marks that you come within half a step of taking but don't. It would obviously be less time to take an extra half step forward at either of those places than the delayed elevator activation.
No. I checked everything and sure I've made everything right. Even if your idea is better, TAS the game yourself! I won't do anything more with it!
Manipulating enemies not to attack Duke is the same as taking medicine if we talk about time spending. I almost didn't do any manipulations on next maps and also Duke slightly slows down when he takes damage.
TASing is like making a film: only the best takes are shown in the final movie.
Joined: 10/12/2011
Posts: 6450
Location: The land down under.
Dimon12321 wrote:
TAS the game yourself!
This^
Seriously. Tangent if you're going to complain about a button, A BUTTON and then start complaining about other things TAS the game yourself.
Edit: Oh and if you point it back at me. I have attempted to TAS this game. I will only provide the necessaries because screw this game.
WebNations/Sabih wrote:
+fsvgm777 never censoring anything.
Disables Comments and Ratings for the YouTube account.Something better for yourself and also others.
This^
Seriously. Tangent if you're going to complain about a button, A BUTTON and then start complaining about other things TAS the game yourself.
Edit: Oh and if you point it back at me. I have attempted to TAS this game. I will only provide the necessaries because screw this game.
My bad for pointing out that his justification for what appears to be sloppy play makes no sense and contradicts his previous stated reasons for doing it, even after you showed that the start and end were very sloppy. What should I do to ensure that this travesty never happens again?
Joined: 10/12/2011
Posts: 6450
Location: The land down under.
Tangent wrote:
even after you showed that the start and end were very sloppy.
In the beginning.
Anyways enemies paths change with starting input.
So I will complain/assist but I care more about the ending input than starting in honesty, even though my posts don't back me on that ♥.
Also I'll be frank, I have sloppy input for my starting input too for its own reasons.
So if it makes it's own benefits I assist with clean starting input mention it and it's up to the author to explain why but I don't care unless it's incorrect from the get go (Unless it was Dimon's Worms, that's another story all together).
But yes, you have me at ending input.
WebNations/Sabih wrote:
+fsvgm777 never censoring anything.
Disables Comments and Ratings for the YouTube account.Something better for yourself and also others.
My bad for pointing out that his justification for what appears to be sloppy play makes no sense and contradicts his previous stated reasons for doing it, even after you showed that the start and end were very sloppy. What should I do to ensure that this travesty never happens again?
You're clearly exaggerating about the travesty!
I would roughly put it, but tasvideos isn't a place where people do everything without any help!
My disadvantage, for example, is input entering, but there is someone who corrects me and I do it better each time.
TASing is like making a film: only the best takes are shown in the final movie.
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11495
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
Dimon12321, I have a question for you. It is strongly related to how you already managed to improve several runs of yourself by quite some time. Have you already caught the feeling of suddenly improving something that seemed "good enough" for you before? Has it started motivating you to try and improve even more, despite your impression that it's "already good enough"?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
My bad for pointing out that his justification for what appears to be sloppy play makes no sense and contradicts his previous stated reasons for doing it, even after you showed that the start and end were very sloppy. What should I do to ensure that this travesty never happens again?
You're clearly exaggerating about the travesty!
I would roughly put it, but tasvideos isn't a place where people do everything without any help!
My disadvantage, for example, is input entering, but there is someone who corrects me and I do it better each time.
Your disadvantage seems to be you are not using your full potential and resources available I believe. I looked through the thread (looks like about 18 days between starting the TAS and submitting it / About 7k rerecords). For the most part, it still seems like you're rushing through the TASing process. As spikestuff stated, start and end inputs are just mashing. you need to go back and make sure your first input is the earliest possible (Example: Frame 9 input works, lets try Frame 8 or 7.. 7 works.. okay now Frame 5, nope that doesnt work, 6? nope.. alright then Frame 7 is the earliest frame, onto the next input needed).
You already took 4 minutes off your first TAS, which makes me think you can potentially take even more time off! Keep it up Dimon, I can't wait to see you at your full potential.
Dimon12321, I have a question for you. It is strongly related to how you already managed to improve several runs of yourself by quite some time. Have you already caught the feeling of suddenly improving something that seemed "good enough" for you before? Has it started motivating you to try and improve even more, despite your impression that it's "already good enough"?
Yes, I've caught it! All my improves (2 subs) are notable and become good.
I took all the allusions. I have an idea about this game and try it tomorrow.
TASing is like making a film: only the best takes are shown in the final movie.
Your disadvantage seems to be you are not using your full potential and resources available I believe. I looked through the thread (looks like about 18 days between starting the TAS and submitting it / About 7k rerecords). For the most part, it still seems like you're rushing through the TASing process. As spikestuff stated, start and end inputs are just mashing. you need to go back and make sure your first input is the earliest possible (Example: Frame 9 input works, lets try Frame 8 or 7.. 7 works.. okay now Frame 5, nope that doesnt work, 6? nope.. alright then Frame 7 is the earliest frame, onto the next input needed).
You already took 4 minutes off your first TAS, which makes me think you can potentially take even more time off! Keep it up Dimon, I can't wait to see you at your full potential.
And you immediately opened my idea! 7k rerecords is pretty normal for this game because I've done only 10k button presses (all frames minus lagged frames). It's late for me today, I'll do it tomorrow.
My improve will be some frames from starting input.
TASing is like making a film: only the best takes are shown in the final movie.
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11495
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
Then I have another question. What is usually stopping your improvement excitement? For this game, it seems to be an annoying/broken engine. But maybe it's some tool not being useful? For example, I never can think about a run when I'm using savestates - all my brain powers go to figuring out what states to save and when, and then not forget to press input!
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Then I have another question. What is usually stopping your improvement excitement? For this game, it seems to be an annoying/broken engine. But maybe it's some tool not being useful? For example, I never can think about a run when I'm using savestates - all my brain powers go to figuring out what states to save and when, and then not forget to press input!
Annoying, boring. When you watch an interesting TAS, you want to watch it again. But when you TASing game, you watch your 1st, 2nd, 3rd level every time when you continue your project, it's boring a little. When sth goes wrong, more reasons...
Savestates too. I sometimes save the progress with all sstates and then find an improvement. "Watch from beginning"
TASing is like making a film: only the best takes are shown in the final movie.
Rerecords have nothing to do with the number of button presses/frames, complexity of the game does.
You don't need to watch it, there should be an option called "play to frame: ". The emulation automatically pauses at this frame.
Watching your project (in slow-motion) is highly recommended.
Rerecords have nothing to do with the number of button presses/frames, complexity of the game does.
You don't need to watch it, there should be an option called "play to frame: ". The emulation automatically pauses at this frame.
Watching your project (in slow-motion) is highly recommended.
Seek to frame. It automatically fast forwards the movie, so I don't have to hold the Turbo speed button :-)
No, in frame advance with lag frame skipping function. It's better for eyes.
TASing is like making a film: only the best takes are shown in the final movie.
