And also, the name of the topic does kinda subtly hint that it's a test run.
I see that. All I said was that the quality of the run was good enough for submission, and if he spends this much effort throughout the rest of it he might as well get it online. It's ultimately his choice, but I don't see any reason he shouldn't.
Also, since yes, this is a test run, Im going to just wait until daybreak and go from there, then once im done with the child segment, Ill work on it again.
He never did. He's ended up redoing almost the entire WIP.
"Test run" does not necessarily mean "not submitting"
I thought that's exactly what it meant :) Anyway, if you say it's publishable material, I'm with you. I also agree that it's good to have a first version published on the site so others will get a stronger motivation to improve it.
But aren't the published movies supposed to be as near-perfect as possible (depending on the individual goals, of course).
Publishing a good but not perfect version of a run is one step closer to that. I don't think that this should apply to all games but a game like this (very well suited for TASing and needs a run but is very hard to make) should be kept on a looser leash. Besides, the run so far is already very entertaining.
But aren't the published movies supposed to be as near-perfect as possible (depending on the individual goals, of course).
Tetrisphere was mind-blowingly insane, and an improvement was discussed a few weeks after it was published... It could have been perfect in his eyes when he published it, but it almost seemed like a rushed submission. It was impressive nonetheless, and Bisqwit eagerly published it.
I'm quite sure that the run in it's current state is definitely publishable (IMO), if the quality is retained.
Why is GB going back and redoing minor time saving things if it's "Just a testrun". He's going for quality material here.
Frankly, I don't care if he doesn't play some parts of the game (or all parts of the game) with frame advance. In this case, you are sacrificing a small amount of speed for convience, author sanity (a big issue), and time! It's definitely worth it.
You say "but aren't the published movies supposed to be as near-perfect as possible"
I say that because there are so many new variables to N64 movies (movement, button presses, desynch issues), the "near-perfect" paradigm should be changed slightly to complement "user-sanity".
Who defines this new pardigm? I really don't think it's definable (is that a word?). It's quite and almost completely subjective. I'll go by majority rules for now (barring Bisqwit's intervention).
Unless I've been interpreting the past 200+ posts incorrectly, I think the majority loves GB's movie, and deems it publishable material. Therefore, this movie has a great change of being published, despite it being a "test-run".
(Note, this is not a discussion involving speed vs entertainment, if it turns into one, someone shoot me in the face. Twice. With a double barreled shotgun).
I'm too lazy to edit this post for slight grammar errors, as it is getting late, but I hope I got my point across clearly, and succinctly.
If you expected all TAS's regardless of circumstance to be frame advance and pixel perfect, I doubt even the 16-star mario 64 run would be up right now.
As long as a TAS is of very high quality (which this one has been so far) and accomplishes things a normal runner obviously couldn't, I think it should be acceptable. GuanoBowl has come a VERY long way from his earliest submissions and I think this run is a very impressive TAS.
As it is, since this testrun is being done with a very high quality, I vote keep.
May be a little early to be discussing submission status. In fact I remember Guano saying not too long ago that he was so frustrated with the desync issue he was almost ready to give up. ;(
Let's just keep helping him and try to make progress. Most of us are just cheerleaders, true, but at least there are some knowlegable folks like mwl and AKA here to offer route help.
Joined: 7/4/2005
Posts: 714
Location: Albuqueruqe, New Mexico
You guys are awesome :)
I'd like to add some notes based on what I am hearing.
My first thought when posting the 1st message on this board was to make this a Test run, but getting perfect angles in certain parts is near impossible because Link will only set himself up in certain directions which is very very frustrating. I have put a lot of time in this run so far just doing "Segment 1" which is the 2nd smallest segment :(
I will for sure send this in for publishing when I am done because I do not want to do it again once I get done. This game is very difficult trying to "perfect" every movement. Accuracy with weapons is another story, Its just the movement thats a pain in the ass.
Plus, with the help of everyone here, Im sure this run will get more "perfect" as I advance. The only issue is the desynch. All of you have been greatly helping me out in any way possible (with ideas and support) and this run(hopefully) will get done by the end of the summer.
Change my sig. again, and I will murder your pet fish.
I will for sure send this in for publishing when I am done because I do not want to do it again once I get done. ...
Plus, with the help of everyone here, Im sure this run will get more "perfect" as I advance. The only issue is the desynch.
That's not a small issue. Plus, I thought it was agreed that the "copy framebuffer" option (or another fix that behaves like it) should be used for the final run to eliminate the subscreen delay. I'm not saying anything about the quality of the run you've done, but I think there will be technical difficulties in publishing it and annoyance that many people can't watch the .m64 file. (But, I suppose it's worth getting something done anyway. As long as it works for some people, it can be viewed and possibly published, and another version can be worked on sometime later.)
As soon as you start pushing the block... hold back on the joystick. Then as soon as the block stops moving (LITERALLY AS SOON AS IT STOPS... INSTANTLY) press forwards on the joystick. Link pops back and then pops forwards again and pushes a little sooner than he normally does. Saves a few frames when done perfectly.
Joined: 7/4/2005
Posts: 714
Location: Albuqueruqe, New Mexico
I dont think that is going to be faster, because I have to get around the block (either climbing or walking around after several pulls) and on top of that, I tried doing it and I dont see get how its done. I think its faster just pulling it.
Change my sig. again, and I will murder your pet fish.
Yes, that would be the problem. You're not supposed to press B before crouch-stabbing.
What's up with the second-long delay at the door before entering the room with the Anubis? DK64_MASTER, how does that manipulate luck? He got the Anubis to drop 3x20 rupees in his previous run without waiting there.
Also, BAD NEWS -- the movie desynchs after you enter the crawlspace leading to the first locked door. I ran the movie twice to confirm this.
Yes, that would be the problem. You're not supposed to press B before crouch-stabbing.
What's up with the second-long delay at the door before entering the room with the Anubis?
Also, BAD NEWS -- the movie desynchs after you enter the crawlspace leading to the first locked door. I ran the movie twice to confirm this.
Confirmed... Hopefully you didn't lose too much time... I think it might have to do with the the placement of ths skulltulla...
If it gives you too much trouble, just take the long way around the skulltulla, so it works no matter where the skulltulla is.
Edit. you also get hit by the green bubble. Was this intentional? Or could it have been the cause of the desynch?
If you have the time, I'd recommend playing the .m64 from the beginning once after each of these tricks:
1) the Anubis
2) bombchu explosion
3) block-pushing room
Also, after you blast away the wall, try crouch-stabbing the Lizalfos in that room (though, of course, this won't be in the final run.) If it takes two low stabs to defeat one of them, the attack power has been preserved properly.
From what I understand although I'm yet to see it (I'll watch it later providing it doesn't desync). There is a chance that equipping a sword or Deku stick might cancel out the damage dealt, I'll check if this is true later. If that is the case then simply use a crouch stab to cancel out the deku stick, I wonder if it possible to do when you light the final torch just as the chest falling cutscene is about to appear as that wouldn't cost any addionial time.
Is the Armos too hard to kill without the Deku stick? Should you just take it out with the sword so you don't have to worry about the time lost later with avoiding the jump slashes (to get across the Anubis room) or not preserving the flaming torch?
Is the Armos too hard to kill without the Deku stick? Should you just take it out with the sword so you don't have to worry about the time lost later with avoiding the jump slashes (to get across the Anubis room) or not preserving the flaming torch?
You can't kill the armos by normally swinging your sword or jumpslashing, only by crouch-stabbing it after using a Deku Stick.
I remember testing this a few days ago on Project64. Unless I made a mistake (which is possible as I used savestates), all you have to do is refrain from pressing B between the Armos and the Iron Knuckle, and the attack power should be preserved. The jumpslash across the pit in Callout 4 shouldn't matter.
EDIT - I just ran another test and confirmed that slashing your stick with C-Left to cross gaps doesn't affect the stored power. B is the only button that matters.
If this doesn't work, then do what AKA said.
Of course, in a worst-case scenario you can still do a "missed jumpslash" on the Iron Knuckle and crouch stab from there. You'll probably waste a second or two, but you may end up wasting more if you don't do the flame storage tricks. So do whatever wastes the least amount of time possible.
