This topic is for the purpose of discussing #4399: unagi's NES Q*bert in 22:25.42

The run looks fairly optimal. Also letting everyone knows it does sync on FCEUX too, latest version infact (2.2.2). Anyways, creating a temp encode for this.

The runs look fairly optimal.

Well, I tried to sort of channel the author's temperature in the thread. I also think it looks fairly better than he gave it credit for. It wouldn't surprise me if a lot of people are actually entertained by the run. On a technical level, I especially liked how he uses Sam to his advantage.

I wasn't expecting to be entertained by 20 minutes of Q*bert, but I was. I can't tell how optimized it is, but the enemy usage and dodging shows off the tool assistance, and the board traversals were more varied than I expected. With the number of things going on, I expect more fun could be had with AI manipulation and close calls, but I didn't notice any particular missed opportunities without sacrificing speed.

It should be noted, BTW, that there's a second loop after the TAS ends that's just the same thing but a bit faster, and what happens after that is unknown. 'first loop' would be good as a catgory name.

I agree, that sounds pretty good.

In spite of its length, I found it quite enjoyable. Well, I only played the Atari version of Q*bert, but the solutions he used are very clever. Here's another Yes.

Voting yes. It is possible that the route could be improved, I see he waits a few frames for the snake sometimes, but he does take advantage of the monster that flips tiles for him pretty well. I did play around with this game a bit, but I didn't really spend much time on figuring out how to plan a route. I will say that even in frame advance that stupid snake makes a dogged pursuit.

This run surprised me - there's no denying that this is a somewhat simple game ruleset (consisting of "make everything a target color by jumping on it while avoiding enemies") but I was entertained by how this played out. Had it been 40 minutes I don't think I would have been able to vote Yes but as it is I think this is actually eligible for the Moons tier. Good work unagi, and I hope you see this and reconnect with the community at some point, A.C. ******

I was entertained, and I couldn't figure out why. That was a lot of Q*Bert to sit through. I didn't think I'd watch it all. Maybe it's because, just as the initial concept starts to get old (8 minutes or so) the levels speed up? The levels take much less time as the run progresses despite needing more jumps.

Let me dilute your joy >:D This run may be optimal, don't know, but how it looks like is completely, totally unbearable to me. The thing that takes a second to do (jumping) repeats thousands of times only changing direction. I tried to look at the later parts, but there it gets only MORE ridiculous! You must JUMP on the same block SEVERAL FUCKING TIMES. WOW. HOW ENTERTAINING.

Your post gives me the impression that you're trying to judge it as an action game, feos. It is far more a puzzle game. On those terms, I can appreciate the run. The solutions were very good. I'll toss in a Yes vote, for Moons.

I was also surprisingly entertained by this run. It gives off a clear "tool-assisted" vibe, and the enemies are manipulated and used well. Yes vote! I nominate these two screenshots (frames 19248 and 56401), for showing how the run utilizes enemies to beat levels faster:

This run may be optimal, don't know, but how it looks like is completely, totally unbearable to me. The thing that takes a second to do (jumping) repeats thousands of times only changing direction. I tried to look at the later parts, but there it gets only MORE ridiculous! You must JUMP on the same block SEVERAL FUCKING TIMES. WOW. HOW ENTERTAINING.

In terms of gameplay complexity, it actually gets a lot more interesting in later levels where jumping on tiles that are already the "correct" color reverts them to their original color, so backtracking must be much more carefully considered. That said, it is still 22 minutes of Q-bert, which normally isn't really a spectator sport when compared to many of the games run on this site.

Wouldn't truly optimal Q-bert have no backtracking? At least in the first couple of levels before the monsters that help you out.

Wouldn't truly optimal Q-bert have no backtracking? At least in the first couple of levels before the monsters that help you out.

It's impossible not to backtrack some without using monsters or transport discs. Just look at the bottom corner tiles. There's no where to go except to backtrack.

This movie has been published. The posts before this message apply to the submission, and posts after this message apply to the published movie. ---- [2675] NES Q*bert by unagi in 22:25.42

hello all. first let me say i've been a fan of tasvideos for a very long time. i was thrilled to see my video had been published. though i have not produced any more runs myself over the last six years, i have regularly visited the site and enjoyed watching your artful creations. thank you all. regarding my run, i am confident it can be improved. i dug up my old notes, and i hope future Q*bert runners can make use of them. i made extensive use of luck manipulation to control enemies, in particular to manipulate sam/slick into helping me complete puzzles (sam and slick are actually two separate characters -- slick has glasses). the only way i found to do this was by pausing the game, which wastes a significant number of frames over the course of the run. with more modern TAS tools including direct memory access, there could be a more efficient way. regarding the escape discs, i was not able to find a way to use them without slowing down the run. although they can save time by killing coily, completing the top square, and shaving 15 frames off the end of round bonus scoring, this is all less than the amount of time lost to the disc animation itself. the only glitch i discovered is the ability to jump through enemies, usually a 1-frame window, which i utilize many times throughout the run, mainly with coily. i expect additional glitches exist, which could certainly speed up the run. without glitches though, i believe i did achieve perfect times on the first two sets of rounds. the board has seven horizontal rows. there are 16 squares on the odd rows and 12 squares on the even rows. since every jump alternates between odd and even rows, and because Q*bert starts on an odd row, a minimum of 16*2 = 32 jumps are required to complete each of the first four rounds. and then in level two, the next set of four rounds, a minimum of 16*4 = 64 jumps are required. in both these rounds sam/slick can only undo progress. for the later rounds, optimal bounds are harder to determine because of sam/slick. they come down at different times in the different rounds, so the number of jumps needed to complete each round varies even within the same level. i was not able to find a way, but if sam/slick appearances can be manipulated that would create substantial time improvements. furthermore, as the monsters become much faster, a significant amount of time is wasted on luck manipulation and waiting to jump. this of course can also be improved. finally, like many NES games, this one has a frame rule, in Q*bert's case the value is 16. so speeding up a given round only improves the final time if it can be completed before the previous mod 16 cutoff. below is a table with details on my run. i believe the jump speeds are predetermined for each round, but if they can be manipulated that would also be valuable. the columns are: level-round jumps used extra blocks of 16 frames wasted beyond the given number of jumps (jump speed measured in frames) 1-1 32 0 (34) 1-2 32 0 (32) 1-3 32 0 (31) 1-4 32 0 (33) 2-1 64 0 (31) 2-2 64 0 (30) 2-3 64 0 (30) 2-4 64 0 (31) 3-1 31 5 (29) 3-2 34 2 (29) 3-3 34 3 (29) 3-4 34 2 (29) 4-1 64 0 (29) 4-2 64 0 (24) 4-3 64 1 (26) 4-4 64 0 (30) 5-1 53 4 (29) 5-2 52 3 (29) 5-3 53 5 (27) 5-4 53 11 (27) 6-1 53 9 (27) 6-2 53 10 (27) 6-3 47 9 (27) 6-4 53 9 (25) 7-1 53 7 (25) 7-2 53 4 (25) 7-3 53 9 (25) 7-4 47 7 (25) 8-1 53 7 (24) 8-2 49 8 (24) 8-3 53 2 (24) 8-4 53 3 (24) 9-1 47 7 (24) 9-2 47 6 (24) 9-3 53 3 (24) 9-4 47 9 (24)