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Posted: 9/1/2005 1:44 AM
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JXQ
Experienced player (761)
Joined: 5/6/2005
Posts: 3132
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Fabian wrote:
After you take the key, is it regular wall jumps you do?
No, what I'm doing there is kicking the key at the wall, landing on the key when it rebounds off the wall, and then jumping off of it and picking it up again at the same time. I tried wall jumps first, but could only get one to work, and I needed two. In this way, a key could be used to quickly scale any wall, although in most cases, a cape could do the same. But you never know where this might come in handy.
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
Posted: 9/1/2005 1:52 AM
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Fabian
Former player
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 1711
Here's my latest smv: My run including Salty Isle I hope you like it.
Zoey Ridin' High <Fabian_> I prett much never drunk
Posted: 9/1/2005 2:21 AM
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GWing_02
Joined: 6/6/2005
Posts: 124
I saw the part you were referring to in Salty Isle and while it's cool I'm not sure if it's cool enough to miss the 30 frames that you did... Most people would miss why that section is so nice. edit: sorry if I sound so harsh/whatever towards you or entertainment, I don't really mean to be negative, I'm just putting my opinion out there.
Posted: 9/1/2005 2:32 AM
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Fabian
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Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 1711
Don't worry, I understand you don't mean anything by it. But my point kind of is that while most people won't get why that section is so nice, not a single person will know I miss those frames either. I've seen people with these opinions before on this forum, and they are never well recieved. And I kind of understand that, TAS's are all about optimization. However I can't remember reading any protests about Viper7's "entertaining" but time consuming moves anywhere. I think that's a little weird. Not that I equal acidentally losing 30+ frames with waiting for 50 stars after a ghost house, but the general point is if you (general you, not you specifially GWing) were ok with that (and some other stuff he did), I don't understand why there can't be similar things in other videos. I'm mainly thinking about my shells of course.
Zoey Ridin' High <Fabian_> I prett much never drunk
Posted: 9/1/2005 3:17 AM
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GWing_02
Joined: 6/6/2005
Posts: 124
Well if I recall correctly the only points during which VIPer ever lost frames for the sole sake of entertainment was one dive to collect one shell, as well as the ghost house. With your run we're talking 3 or 4 out of 7 levels so far.
Posted: 9/1/2005 3:25 AM
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Fabian
Former player
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 1711
We're talking 2. Salty Isle was unintentional. I also think he loses time in Valley of Bowser 4 where he gets 21 stars, but I could be wrong about that.
Zoey Ridin' High <Fabian_> I prett much never drunk
Posted: 9/1/2005 3:28 AM
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GWing_02
Joined: 6/6/2005
Posts: 124
Oh, Salty Isle was unintentional. Okay.
Posted: 9/1/2005 3:31 AM
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Fabian
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Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 1711
Fair enough. I'll stop posting about this.
Zoey Ridin' High <Fabian_> I prett much never drunk
Posted: 9/1/2005 7:32 AM
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VIPer7
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Joined: 10/17/2004
Posts: 226
Location: Bonn, Germany
are you sure that you beat Iggy Koopa as fast as possible? I think if you compare it with the current SMW11 run, it's a bit slower.
Posted: 9/1/2005 4:58 PM
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JXQ
Experienced player (761)
Joined: 5/6/2005
Posts: 3132
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I did some stuff to your run Fabian, which can be found here. I owe a lot of thanks to DeHackEd for his cool little upload script. VIPer7 was right about Iggy. I also messed around on Salty Lake to try and find out where your frames were lost. I never could figure out exactly what caused them, but I did run it myself and not slow down. Comparison: 
           				JXQ	  Fabian

Iggy door entered:	  18084	18084
Iggy defeated noise:	18528	18544	(16 frames gained at Iggy Koopa)
Salty Lake start:	   20877	20893
Salty Lake landmark:	21228	21320	(76 frames gained from different route)
Salty Lake clear:	   22475	22622	(51 other frames gained from flying(?))

147 frames gained altogether.
I was not able to stomp the koopa above the screen, but I did hit him with the cape spin. Whether you'd like to use this run is up to you. I hope I'm not disheartening you by trying to squeeze frames out of your runs. I just figure it's more of a help than just pointing out possible mistakes, especially because this run is going to be a long one and there will be some points that I'm sure you'll want to quit. Hopefully having some help can take that stress off of your shoulders somewhat. I also am trying to not change the style of your run when I do this - hopefully I am mimicking your entertainment "route" well enough that it still seems true to your own. EDIT: I also just noticed that I didn't get the third Dragon Coin. Frown. Although it is probably fixable without too much trouble.
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
Posted: 9/1/2005 6:53 PM
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Michael_Fried
Former player
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 1107
From what I remember, the item you need is usually in the mushroom house in that same world. It's been awhile since I played this game, but I'm pretty sure there was some castle that you needed a star for that wasn't in the same world. I'm too lazy to check it out, though.
Posted: 9/1/2005 7:51 PM
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VIPer7
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Joined: 10/17/2004
Posts: 226
Location: Bonn, Germany
I think you are supposed to use a star in the last Big Boo level (before the Tower). But it's not really needed, just watch my video :P
Posted: 9/1/2005 8:25 PM
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Michael_Fried
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Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 1107
No, I'm talking a different level. I forgot which level it was, but you have to use a star so you can run across some fire and then fly up. Edit: Btw, can you post the link again to your vid? I don't think I've watched it yet.
Posted: 9/1/2005 8:46 PM
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JXQ
Experienced player (761)
Joined: 5/6/2005
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Michael Fried wrote:
I forgot which level it was, but you have to use a star so you can run across some fire and then fly up.
I don't remember a level with fire you run across, but I would think you could do the same trick of getting hit, grabbing a reserve feather, and running up to flight speed while invulnerable.
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
Posted: 9/1/2005 9:39 PM
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VIPer7
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Joined: 10/17/2004
Posts: 226
Location: Bonn, Germany
this wasn't really hard to find ;)
Posted: 9/4/2005 12:25 AM
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Fabian
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Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 1711
It was my intention to not post in this thread anymore, but I've changed my mind for now and will share my progress. My latest smv I hope you like it. Being very unfamiliar with flying, I found the tricky passage in Desert World 2 (the last thing in this movie) extremely difficult. This was the best I could do, I'm sure jxq would be able to do better. And btw jxq, thanks for all your help so far, it is very appreciated.
Zoey Ridin' High <Fabian_> I prett much never drunk
Posted: 9/4/2005 12:37 AM
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Walker_Boh
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Joined: 4/16/2004
Posts: 1276
Location: Uppsala, Sweden
But I'm confused about these multiple threads. Since I somehow got the Super Demo World-ROM deleted I haven't got the energy to find it anything or wathing any WIP's or submission. So hows it going? This is a run I'd more than love to see! And maybe yesterday if possible ;) But you are now into world 2 of 8? It's awesome anyway and I hope you finish this!
/Walker Boh
Posted: 9/4/2005 12:43 AM
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Fabian
Former player
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 1711
It's going well so far, it's a very very long way to go though. The levels keep getting more and more complicated too, so if I ever actually finish this, which is doubtful at best, it'll be a while. If you want the rom you can contact me on irc.
Zoey Ridin' High <Fabian_> I prett much never drunk
Posted: 9/4/2005 12:51 AM
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Walker_Boh
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Joined: 4/16/2004
Posts: 1276
Location: Uppsala, Sweden
I hope you finish it though, because it's a great game (as far as I could tell from Viper's previous run of it). Good luck!
/Walker Boh
Posted: 9/4/2005 12:59 AM
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JXQ
Experienced player (761)
Joined: 5/6/2005
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I like what you've done with this last update very much. It's usually the pain-in-the-ass non-linear levels (Desert World 2) that are the most fun for me to watch be timeattacked. Keeping flight while waiting for the lift to go down was a nice touch and it helped with speed also. I hope you keep posting updates in this forum, but it's up to you. I hope my posts aren't the reason you don't want to, cuz if you want, I won't post anymore movies. I don't want to do anything to make it less likely that this awesome run will be finished. But if you want I'll continue to help however I can. PEACE
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
Posted: 9/4/2005 1:10 AM
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Fabian
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Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 1711
That absolutely isn't the reason jxq, quite the opposite. Your help is very much appreciated Basically, I want to have fun while doing this run. And it is fun until people start being mean to me (not pointing fingers here GWing), then I'd just prefer to do it for my own satisfaction. Since people (not you jxq) seem to dislike what I do with the game so much it's doubtful this would get published even if I did finish it, so it's not about that any more either way. But I like getting feedback from you jxq, it's very nice of you to sacrifice so much time to help me. Thanks again.
Zoey Ridin' High <Fabian_> I prett much never drunk
Posted: 9/4/2005 3:21 AM
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Fabian
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Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 1711
Forget the old link, I've finished the second part of Desert World 2b now. Click Here To download. I'm very happy with this level.
Zoey Ridin' High <Fabian_> I prett much never drunk
Posted: 9/4/2005 4:07 AM
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JXQ
Experienced player (761)
Joined: 5/6/2005
Posts: 3132
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You rocked that level! That was sweet. I also forgot to say that I enjoyed the #1 Castle regular exit, especially the ceiling glitch. You may want to get a yellow shell in your reserve box to prepare for the secret exit in the #2 Castle while you are there, but I'm not sure if you need a different reserve item before that. Unless there is some way to get that secret exit without a special item, but I don't know of one. And as far as what other people (including me) think of your run, you have to take it with a grain of salt. It's just the way a website like this works unfortunately. I can understand why sometimes you wouldn't feel like posting a WIP. But it is what it is. I'm almost positive that this run would be published though, if it is finished, just because it's very tedious making every frame of a two-hour run count. Keep up the good work!
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
Posted: 9/4/2005 5:14 AM
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Fabian
Former player
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 1711
You don't have to have the reserve shell, you can take the upper route in the castle, where there's at least one koopa (IIRC there are some climbing and one regular walking). There's also a pipe leading to the lower route. Taking the shell would undoubtedly be faster though, thanks for the reminder. That would mean I'll definately not use fireflower in the pyramid, and I'm not fully convinced your method was faster. I'll do some tests tomorrow before I continue with the run. Also, one obstacle that's coming up is getting down to the Reznor's (not sure if that's their name, I'm talking about the rhino boss in desert pyramid) without getting hit. I'm not sure how narrow that last passage is, i.e. if it's possible to fly or not. The solution I came up with when I first thought about it some time ago was to throw the P-switch down there and jump off it. I'm not sure if that's possible either though. Do you have any suggestions for that part? Maybe take a detour and fetch the key, which I could jump on/grab like you do, only sideways. Provided that's fast enough to reach the boss, since I'd have to take the P-switch up where the key is.
Zoey Ridin' High <Fabian_> I prett much never drunk
Posted: 9/4/2005 9:50 AM
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VIPer7
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Joined: 10/17/2004
Posts: 226
Location: Bonn, Germany
Desert World 2b looked very nice! I liked that you didn't need to carry the grey P-Switch, wouldn't have thought that the time is enough. You do a kamikaze dive quite often; do you always check that you get back to the fastest flying speed afterwards?
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