I have no idea what TAS to do next. I have a few that I think would be fun to do, but I'd hate to get into to one only to realize that I don't want to finish it.
Maybe you could improve upon Viper7's 96-exit SMW movie? Given how well you and others seem to know the game mechanics, I think you could save a fair bit over the course of the playthrough, also implementing other improvements that have surfaced since.
Not to say you're not sick of SMW by now, just thought it would be neat.
Andreas
no no, don't touch my precious SMW96 run ;)
I had another idea for Bowser's Star World (the level with the skull raft). Would it help if you bring Yoshi along? Then you can fly with him, and jump off him at the highest point. Maybe that's enough to get over the lava hill?
I'm not sure I understand what you mean. The problem in that level is that the lava hill is so huge that Mario can't fly over it no matter what, the screen needs to be scrolled up. In the 120 exit run we used a vine in the reserve box to scroll the screen so the skull raft could be skipped. For a 15 exit run, no vine is avaliable, meaning Mario has to go on the raft for a while until he can take off right before the lava hill, which of course would make the screen scroll up.
Having Yoshi wouldn't change the situation, since the waiting time before taking off (still right before the lava hill) would be the same.
I'm not sure if I just said a bunch of things you already know, if so I apologize :)
Then nevermind, I just had this idea when I read about your problems with that lava hill. I had a similar problem in Vanilla Dome 3, and there it could have been solved with Yoshi's help.
Hi. I have a request for Fabian, JXQ, VIPer7, flagitious or anyone else who has mastered the Super Mario World mechanics.
Back on the console, one trick that I could never get the hang of was flying parachute-style on Yoshi. I have yet to see this maneuver in any of the SMW videos on this site, probably because this technique is unlikely to have any timesaving application. This is when Mario rides Yoshi while still being able to gain altitude, dive-bomb, slide-tackle and perform all the usual cape tricks. The drawback is that pressing left or right actually causes Mario+Yoshi to try turning around, which leads to complications.
To initiate this trick, leave Yoshi on a red triangle (normally used for running up walls) and parachute onto his back. I recall it is also possible to start this by bouncing off an enemy, but the timing makes it much more difficult. Once in a while I've been able to gain altitude, but I've never been able to consistently perform any flying techniques in this mode.
Would it be possible that one of you might already have or would like to make a short movie demonstrating consistent control of this trick? One thing I'd like would be Yoshi flying with the cape all the way over Donut Plains 4. For something more challenging, perhaps you could try bringing Yoshi up to the top of Water Secret in Super Demo World without using a blue shell.
-hanzou
I don't entirely understand the trick from your description. If I understand correctly, Mario has his regular flight physics, but while riding Yoshi? And when pressing <- or ->, they turn around, but still remain in flight mode? So if you held <- for 11 frames to catch air, they would start flying in the opposite direction they were facing originally?
Sounds weird. I'll check it out and see what I can find.
Wow this is weird!
Demo here.
Left and right do change your direction, but still have flight preserved. You have to change direction enough to be moving in that direction as well, then use the every-other frame trick. If the direction is just held, then by the time liftoff occurs, you are facing the same direction you are holding, which causes you to dive.
What I noticed is that the screen continues to follow Yoshi up the entire time. That might be handy in an extremely specific circumstance.
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
Hehe a nice glitch, never heard of that before :)
Btw I had another idea when watching your 120exits run: You carried that message block along in Castle #3; why didn't you activate it to get rid of the water? Flying is a lot faster than swimming, isn't it?
Awesome! I've been curious to see that maneuver for over a decade. I'd still like to see how fast Yoshi can fly horizontally when continually using this trick over a level, so if you have time it would be great if you could try making a demo for Donut Plains 4 or some other free flying level.
What I noticed is that the screen continues to follow Yoshi up the entire time. That might be handy in an extremely specific circumstance.
Fabian wrote:
The problem in that level is that the lava hill is so huge that Mario can't fly over it no matter what, the screen needs to be scrolled up.
Well, that sounds like just the kind of specific circumstance, right? I doubt there's any red triangle or stompable enemy to initiate the trick at that point, but maybe there is a similar situation elsewhere in the game or in Super Mario World. My guess is that the screen scrolling is due to the red triangle which always provides scrolling power when Yoshi bounces off it, so you probably wouldn't get the same benefit if you initiated flight by some other trickier method.
-hanzou
I think the screen scrolls up because there is only one way Yoshi is programmed to fly, and it makes the screen scroll. When it's tricked into gaining more air, the game still considers it an initial descent.
This trick could work on Bowser Star Road, but I don't get how to start the trick by bouncing off an enemy. The only enemies on that level are Blarggs and Pirhana Plants, neither or which can be stomped - well, they can be yoshi-stomped, but it doesn't kill them. Plus with the nature of the flying constantly turning Yoshi backwards, I don't think it would be possible to fly under the pipes just before the lava hill.
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
This is from many years ago so I could be way off with this, but here is what I remember about starting Yoshi-flying by bouncing off an enemy, or rather an empty shell.
You know how to hold a key (or purple block) while riding on Yoshi, right? Sometimes when you try this (jump onto the key and Yoshi while holding Y), it works fine and you can repeatedly do it again and again. Other times, Mario grabs the key and falls right through Yoshi, and the failure will continue no matter how many times he tries until he restarts that level or goes to another level. It's as if some programming oversight has made it so there's a strange bit somewhere that says whether it's okay for you to ride Yoshi holding the key or not. When you do that with shells or a P-switch, it can be pretty similar except very rarely will you end up with the cool effect of carrying the item on Yoshi. For these items, half the time Mario will fall through and pick up the shell/P-switch and at other times he'll be in the mode of always boarding Yoshi and smashing the shell/P-switch in the process.
Anyway, to try the flying Yoshi trick without a red triangle, first do some testing to make sure you're in that latter mode where the shell would actually get smashed. Next, place a shell on the ground and drop Yoshi on the same place. Fly up, open the parachute, then land on Yoshi's back and hopefully you'll bounce off the shell up into flying Yoshi mode.
I don't remember ever seeing this work on a generic Yoshi-bouncable enemy or even a Yoshi-stompable enemy. It had to be a shell, which probably does something strange because it's something Mario can normally pick up. Besides the red triangle and bouncing off shells, I'd like to think there are other possibilities like catching Yoshi off a disappearing platform, landing at the frame-perfect moment when Yoshi is on a ledge, etc.
-hanzou
Just found and watched the final movie, and all I can say is wow. It actually wore on me after a while; it's not something to watch in one segment.
Good job, guys, good job.
Thanks a lot, GWing! Yeah, I actually haven't sat down and watched it from start to finish yet either. It would probably end up being kind of like a comic book collection - whenever I go to read a Calvin and Hobbes book, I find myself remembering most of the comics and skipping to the next one midway through. I've gotten very trigger happy with the Tab button. (Which is bad for Sonic, Tab resets Gens!)
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
Yeah when I had downloaded the avi I mentioned in the IRC channel how I was pressing tab after every single level and to skip certain things for probably 20 minutes straight. What a habit that had become.
Hey guys. I tried out the trick on Snes9x just now, and it worked. I guess my memory from years ago isn't too far off. I didn't run into that Yoshi-item-trouble mode that I was ranting about. Maybe it's rarer than I remember or just nonexistent, so just ignore my long paragraph about keys and P-switches and carrying items on Yoshi. Just go ahead and parachute onto Yoshi when he's sitting with a shell.
What's more, I tried to initiate flight by placing Yoshi on a ledge and carefully landing just off the corner, and it worked! Now we know this flight trick can be pulled off on that lava stage or any stage!
JXQ wrote:
Plus with the nature of the flying constantly turning Yoshi backwards, I don't think it would be possible to fly under the pipes just before the lava hill.
Yes, I was hoping you in your SMW expertise could find out what the potential horizontal speed is for Yoshi flying that way and demo it. That's my request. =) Or Fabian, are you up for the challenge?
-hanzou
Getting this flight from placing Yoshi on a corner is interesting. It means that in Bowser's Star World, Yoshi could be flown up to the top platforms, dismounted onto the very edge just before the pipes, and the flying glitch could go from there. Is there enough speed to get under the pipes? This I don't know. But the closest place I can think to get Yoshi at that point is midway through Desert Star World (for the 15-exit run), but I may be forgetting somewhere closer. This strategy may or may not be faster in the 15-exit run, but I don't think it would be faster than the vine in the 120-exit run.
I'm a little afraid to stop playing Sonic, as the curse may set in. ;-) Hanzou, did you happen to make SMVs of the tricks you're speaking of?
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
Wow, I had no idea you could find Yoshi in Desert Star World, I thought Yoshi only existed in mushroom houses, except for the baby Yoshi in Pipe World 5. What do you know :)
The trouble would be getting Yoshi through Pipe Star World, he can't travel those pipes can he? I don't think I've ever actully had Yoshi when casually playing this game, maybe I should play it through with him sometime.
Anyway, it sounds doubtful it would be faster anyway, but either way it's very cool.
The game isn't really designed to be able to play through with Yoshi casually. If Yoshi is somewhere, it's usually intended that you need him. In Desert Star World, he's supposed to be used to eat the Pokeys on the way to the keyhole. He can be found in the bonus room in one of the pipes near the key.
And Yoshi can't travel through those pipes. The only way I thought of was to play until Bowser Star World, then go back and get Yoshi, but this would take awhile.
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
Okay guys, I made an .smv: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/291/Super%20Mario%20World%20%28U%29%20yoshi_flight.smv
In the process I accidentally stomped a live Koopa Troopa to get airborn, so now we know that works as well. Seeing this I went ahead and tried with a Piranha plant and even that worked, so this movie demonstrates airborn Yoshi four times. If you count the empty shell and live enemy methods as separate (although they're really the same), we now have five methods for initiating cape-style flight with Yoshi.
Unfortunately this shows that the screen does not scroll automatically if you don't use the red triangle, so JXQ that blows your theory of the screen scrolling caused by Yoshi alone, and destroys the potential for using this trick on that lava level.
JXQ wrote:
I'm a little afraid to stop playing Sonic, as the curse may set in. ;-) Hanzou, did you happen to make SMVs of the tricks you're speaking of?
Sounds like you're caught up with Sonic for now, so Fabian, could you look into this? I'm now pretty convinced that this will have no timesaving application in any of the SMW videos, but I'm hoping you might explore it a bit anyway. I've been wondering about this technique since a decade ago, so if you could master it and make a demo of Yoshi flying over a level that would be quite satisfying.
-hanzou
Bummer about the screen not scrolling.
Mario can fly just as fast with Yoshi as he can alone, which surprised me. The excpetion is during a dive to catch extra air. Here's a demo of that (Super Mario World), based off your original demo. When turning Yoshi back around, -> has to be pressed for a multiple of five frames to keep fast flying.
<Swordless> Go hug a tree, you vegetarian (I bet you really are one)
