This topic is for the purpose of discussing #480: slash_star_dash's Genesis X-Men 2: Clone Wars in 25:56.20

Looking good. With Wolverine in the first level now, this is starting to look like a finished product. I voted yes.

Desynched in the area with the moving spiked walls. However from what I saw, this looks good. Seems like there are a bunch of frame-specific moves which are missed but it still looks good.

is he still working on it? cause i have some suggestions that could save him massive time.

Post them either way, maybe someone will pick it up.

ok.. give me a few hours, I have to finish up some work. Then ill look over the demo again and make the changes needed. I'll try not to post any crap corrections(corrections that arent worth going back to fix, like if you took 1 extra step or something of that nature).

These tips are arranged in chronological order. But before I go into the tips I want to say that you did an awesome job on this speed run. I honestly couldnt have done a better job. Mad props brotha! And now the tips: For the First Level, Nightcrawler can get the job done faster instead of wolverine. Although, Wolverine does make it more entertaining only because of the fact that everyone loves wolverine. You probably chose wolverine because of the 3 ice walls you have to break. The first one, you can break very quickly (2 air kicks, first one can be executed so fast, that it wont even show it on the screen), the 2nd ice wall, you skip it completely, go under the platform, and jump on the next platform. At the end of the level, right before you kill the 2nd to the last ninja, prepare to warp, kill the ninja, and warp onto the wall and finish it off with a mid-air kick. 2nd Level Part 1: Those things that you bust to open the doors, im just going to call them 'terminals'. The 4th and the very last terminal in the level, you can actually bust them through the floor with a mid-air kick (jump, hold up arrow, and kick {the move where he does a backflip and kicks up}). Doing this would be alot faster. 2nd Level, Part 2: 3rd and 4th terminals that are divided by a wall, use the floor trick I described above, accept hit them in this order: The one closest to you, hit it first, as you come down and go back up, hit AND DESTROY the one furthest away from you, then finish off the initial one with 2 kicks. Pyramid Level (The level with the boss that throws rocks): It is possible to skip level with nightcrawler. But if said and done, I still dont know if you would gain any time due to the fact that the main boss will require alot of hits with nightcrawler (I could be wrong). And I have actually skipped a full floor before, so it is possible but very hard. apocalypse (Spelling?) Level: I understand that you hit those brown balls on purpose for entertainment purposes. Thats fine as long as you have ATLEAST one yellow bar on your health meter when apocalypse shows his face. Becauase when you have a yellow bar, your super-move is alot stronger. You killed him in 36 hits, when you could have killed him in 11 or 12 hits (I dont know the exact number). After the woods level, The level with the acidy looking water raising, so you have to climb at a certain rate so the acid doesnt own you (the level color is blue). -- At the end, right after you first teleport to get on the green flat platform, there is another platform where theres an enemy to the left, and another platform to the right. It would be faster to go left, get on the toxic waste thing, and teleport up 1 level as opposed to going right and teleporting. The Transformer boss: You can probably beat him faster with Beast than Wolverine, although I don't know if you gain any time due to the fact that you have to switch all the way back to wolverine the next level, which would consume some time (again.. I could infact be wrong). This last tip is just a general tip. On nightcrawler, I saw only once in the video where you did a diagonal kick on someone, and followed it up with a flip. I think this move can come in handy in alot of the game, but in particular the 3rd to the last level. If your not familiar with it, the move works like this. If you flip, before you diagonal kick, then you cant do it. If you do a diagonal kick, and then a flip, the flip cannot be executed again, but any other move can be. (you basically cant flip twice in 1 jump and thats really the main law of physics on that move). Any Questions about any of these tips feel free to ask.

I can give some comments on some of the comments then... we tried some of it in previous submissions. Reading trough the discussions is probably a good idea, there are all somewhere in this forum. >For the First Level, Nightcrawler can get the job done faster instead of wolverine. True, but it is not possible to start with Nightcrawler without dying. The game starts automatically without giving you a chance to select a character. Usually you always start with Beast, but by changing the type of controller you can manipulate it to get Wolverine, but that's it. That's still a big improvement over Beast though. >Pyramid Level (The level with the boss that throws rocks): It is possible to skip level with nightcrawler. But if said and done, I still dont know if you would gain any time due to the fact that the main boss will require alot of hits with nightcrawler (I could be wrong). And I have actually skipped a full floor before, so it is possible but very hard. Slashstardash said he tried this and that Nighcrawlers speed didn't make up for it on the boss. But then I don't know if he knew you could skip floors with him. >apocalypse (Spelling?) Level: I understand that you hit those brown balls on purpose for entertainment purposes. Thats fine as long as you have ATLEAST one yellow bar on your health meter when apocalypse shows his face. Becauase when you have a yellow bar, your super-move is alot stronger. You killed him in 36 hits, when you could have killed him in 11 or 12 hits (I dont know the exact number). It is actually not for entertainment. If you don't destroy the balls, they circle around the center a few times, wasting a lot of time. Wether or not this makes up for the time lost by having weaker attacks later I don't know, it is definitely something worth testing. "The Transformer boss" - I'm having a mind blank, which boss is this again? The one that explodes directly and then turns into some weird tank? Thanks for all the feedback anyway, I'm sure Mr. Slash will appreciate it. And it's good that I'm not the only one whining about his videos. :)

i dont come back for one day and i get all these replies? damn... :) well, anyhow... im not wanting to do this one again... desyncing causes route changes that shouldnt have to happen. i should in the future, i know. but at the moment, im a little sick of the game. I THANK YOU ALL for the advice given. all of which i was completely unaware of. should someone else like to try, i wouldnt mind. i was trying the original X-men but cant do that one because of the whole Gens RESET thing. oh well. on some notes

i was playing through and happened to just start and i started with nightcrawler. i have no idea how this one happened (i cant even remember the button configs! dammit...). i didnt know nighty could go through the floor on the pyramid level with Tusk (the boss who throws rocks). Id tried but that didnt go well. apocalypse is definitely worth a try. only if you can beat him in the first round though. otherwise, it'd be too boring to watch that whole bomb fiasco again. also, if you carefully place yourself when battling apocalypse, you can make him NOT use that attack of his (strange mace like thing). im still not sure, but on the second half of the battle, that was what i was trying for. the 2nd level tips are good as well, as are the Savage Land Complex parts. I'm not sure about the Beast either. hes very BIG and i dont know if he could outmanuver some of the bosses attacks. and i knew about the flip... i thought i did that one more. anyhow, id most likely have to use that with the teleport at points. and thats a problem. the minute i start charging for a teleport, it cancels the flip/roll in mid air. i just start falling (you may have noticed this before).

sorry if this disappoints anyone. but please, if someone wishes to make it better, do so by all means. when i first posted it here, i wasnt sure whether it was going to be entertaining or not.

I dont know anything about making speed runs, because I have never made one before. But as far as getting Nightcrawler in the first level heres what you can do. Start the game, and then get in gens and click 'CPU' then click 'reset 68000' and that WILL start you out with nightcrawler. If I remember correctly, when I was little some of the different sega games started you out with different characters. So you could try using a different rom or using a different version of gens. The pyramid level, are you saying you tried skipping floors and couldnt do it? or are you saying that you tried it, and wolverine was still faster than nightcrawler? When I played apocalypse, The first battle I hit him probably 7 times. Then 1 set of balls came down, then he came out after that set, killed him in one or two swats. I noticed in your video though, that after the first battle, 5 Freakin sets of balls came down before apocalypse came out to fight. Oh.. and I tested this withought getting hit with those brown balls at all... but further testing needs to be conducted. As far as beast goes, I wouldnt try to out maneuver anything, just keep swinging, and after hes dead, pick up the health floating in the air. But like i said earlier, after you beat the transformer guy, you have to go from beast, all the way to wolverine. So because of that I dont know if any time would be gained from that. And about the teleport flip thing, your right. After you teleport you cant flip/roll. "sorry if this disappoints anyone. but please, if someone wishes to make it better, do so by all means. when i first posted it here, i wasnt sure whether it was going to be entertaining or not." Trust me, your video was entertaining. You did a good job. Truncated: "Reading trough the discussions is probably a good idea, there are all somewhere in this forum." I looked through the forums and couldnt any discussions, can you link us to it?

I dont know anything about making speed runs, because I have never made one before. But as far as getting Nightcrawler in the first level heres what you can do. Start the game, and then get in gens and click 'CPU' then click 'reset 68000' and that WILL start you out with nightcrawler.

Gens does not support RESETING of any kind. i know, i tried it with X-men 1 and all that happens is i stand around and press the buttons like a moron. However, it being at the beginning and all, you could always try it here, since not much else will be happening. Perhaps, i dont know.

The pyramid level, are you saying you tried skipping floors and couldnt do it? or are you saying that you tried it, and wolverine was still faster than nightcrawler?

i tried it. i kept doing it at peak level from different areas and tried doing different kinds of jumps and kicks but still no go. if you know the exact way, it might be possible. but i simply cant get him to.

When I played apocalypse, The first battle I hit him probably 7 times. Then 1 set of balls came down, then he came out after that set, killed him in one or two swats. I noticed in your video though, that after the first battle, 5 Freakin sets of balls came down before apocalypse came out to fight. Oh.. and I tested this withought getting hit with those brown balls at all... but further testing needs to be conducted.

i did this as well just now. IT SAVES 42 SECONDS AT LEAST. just do not take damage and avoid the balls. cheers to you for enlightening me on this. the one thing about what you said though... how did you manage to get 7 hits on apocalypse the first time he came down? i mean, when the stage starts and he comes down to say hello and then goes back up... is this the place you are referring to? im really interested in that because it sounds even faster...possibly... damage is damage i mean.

And about the teleport flip thing, your right. After you teleport you cant flip/roll.

on a note... if you leap and dive kick the enemy (45 degree angle) you can hold down B to leap slightly higher (i found this in the Savage Land complex when i bounced off of these floating freaks with guns). Also, if you are close to the ground, it may help to know that you can do a flip/roll in the air and then finish off with a jump kick (normal kind that has a horizontal reach).

Truncated: "Reading trough the discussions is probably a good idea, there are all somewhere in this forum." I looked through the forums and couldnt any discussions, can you link us to it?

search in here. In workbench. Because i didnt have storage space online, i use to just put my results up each time i beat a movie. They should be within the first couple of pages... and i believe one is still on the front... me beating it in 27 minutes. they all contain small things that were discovered over time. anyhow, i just did that one part with apocalypse because it was irritating me at the moment. i wonder if it could be beaten in UNDER 25 minutes now? hell... prolly a lot more since i thought getting it lower than what i'd had for so long was to be impossible until i tried. Oh, and TouchOdeath, go ahead and try on this game. its not nearly as tough as you might think. Just be warned that it may desync from time to time and that will be the true frustration.

I'll go and try to find some roms that start you out with nightcrawler and try out gens 9 (9a is what i have been using). If there are other gens emu's that support recording let me know. The pyramid level, What I did when I tried it, was I looked for one of those midgets things (those enemies that roll and jump), and got right next to one of them, jumped and did a flipped (you cant actually flip, but it makes the sound and the character twitches), then teleported with full health and landed right next to him, but DID NOT kill him. I pretty much got as close as possible to him without killing him. Somehow the game thought I was actually on the next level, so it put me there. Its really difficult to do and i dont know if i can reaceate it. But ill work on it. I'm glad I could help you out on apocalypse, 42 seconds is KILLER. Thanks for listening to what I had to say about the tips and all. Oh.. And when I said 7 hits, I was referring to the 2nd time he shows his face. The first time he comes out he only just goes in a circle and I can only manage 2 hits out of him. The 2nd time he actually fights you. As far as gettting it under 25 minutes. No doubt in my mind that you can. I think the fastest time would be.. probably 24:20. But the only reason you could get that fast, is just perfect just about everything. For example, I saw a nes SuperC demo of some guy who did it really really fast. And there werent really any 1 second mistakes. Then phil or genisto re-did it and beat it by 2 or 3 minutes. I played both of them side by side, and basically he just fixed a bunch of crap mistakes and it eventualy added up to 2 or 3 mins. "Oh, and TouchOdeath, go ahead and try on this game. its not nearly as tough as you might think. Just be warned that it may desync from time to time and that will be the true frustration." you used gens 9c, I couldnt find a 9c version, just test9a. Not only that I dont really know how to use the record functions too well, like re-record and all that. I've never really made a speed run before. But 1 thing that bugs me is if you mess up on one part, do you have to redo the whole thing? I just dont know enough about recording in general. Oh.. And I noticed something about the first level, On the 2nd ice wall, would it be faster to go under the ice and all the platforms and keep going right?

hey.. im going to work on what I said I was going to work on in the post above tommorrow, because I just got my wisdom teeth taken out today, and these pain killers are making me too sleepy. Sorry I cant stay up and help you out. Ill work on it tommorrow. I didnt think Ide enjoy doing this, but this craps pretty fun. gnite.

Previous submissions: http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1533 http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1506 http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1491 >you used gens 9c, I couldnt find a 9c version, just test9a. 9a is the latest unofficial release. 9c is still in progress, but you can PM Jyzero (the guy who's coding it, see Gens forum) and he will send you the work in progress. It has a frame advance feature which is wonderful. >Not only that I dont really know how to use the record functions too well, like re-record and all that. I've never really made a speed run before. Using emulator tools: http://tasvideos.org/UsingEmulatorTools.html Also, be sure you read the rules, guidelines, common tricks, and all and any info you can find on the game online: http://tasvideos.org/Rules.html http://tasvideos.org/Guidelines.html http://tasvideos.org/CommonTricks.html >But 1 thing that bugs me is if you mess up on one part, do you have to redo the whole thing? I just dont know enough about recording in general. If you mess up on one part and redo it, you will lose everything made after that part. For example if you record levels 1 2 and 3 and find a mistake in the middle of level 2, you will lose the second half of 2 and all of 3. Last but not least, make a lot of backups of your movie file as you make it. It's easy to accidentally press the wrong button, load an early savestate and erase everything made after that. Let us know if you need any more help, but check the FAQ first and use the search function on the forum to see if anyone already asked. Good luck.

Thanks for all the advice truncated, and all the trouble you went through to get those links. But I was saying I didn't know how to use the record stuff in general more of an excuse not to do a speed run. But it is the truth that I really didn't know enough about the recording functions to do a speed run, I was just using it as a crutch. I don't think I'll be doing a speed run on this game, /* did a good enough job on it. But more of the fact that I don't really have enough time to do one. I was bored one day and decided to see how fast I could go through each level with nightcrawler only one day, and then decided to see if anyone would work with me on a speed run (have them do the speed run and have me give them the information), but found this thread instead and gave some tips. But I find it enjoyable to help with this kind of stuff (not actually doing one myself). But here are the updates on the pyramid: I worked for an hour(maybe an hour and a half) or so trying to skip the floor, didnt succeed but learned alot of stuff. Heres how the teleportation works as far as limitations are concerened. The only time you can really take advantage of your yellow health bar, is if you go straight up without jumping, diagonal without jumping, or left or right (left or right, doesnt matter if you jump or not). In the pyramid level, it shouldnt matter whether you have a yellow bar or not as far as skipping levels (or atleast it shouldnt matter), because you are limited by the top edge of the screen. The top edge of the screen works like this: It limits you to how high you go can on a platform basis. For example: If I jump on a platform above me, the computer recalculates right then and there how high the top edge of the screen will move up. Tricks/useless knowledge that I've learned: ============================ Trick 1 - If you power-up, pause it, let go of your power-up button, and unpause, your power-up will stay at the level you paused it at, and you can use it to its full extent just by tapping the button once. So if I wanted to, I could charge it up half-way, pause it, let go of my button, unpause it, and my power will be half-way and stay that way. So the next time I hit my power move button, it does like it should and executes your power half-way (or whatever level you set it to). Information/Trick 2 - In the pyramid level, if you want good testing grounds to perfect how high you jump without rocks getting in your way, shaking your screen, etc etc. Then go to the floor right under the boss. The floor with all the health on the screen, and 3 midgets side by side. If your on that floor, the boss quits throwing rocks, and you can test how high you can jump without all the inconvenience. And you can use the pillars as a good height measure. UselessInfo/Trick 3 - Pyramid level, those blocks right above your head that block the rocks from hitting your head, if you find a midget on a level above you, and hes standing right above one of those blocks, if you teleport on the midget and on the blocks at the same time, It wont kill the midget due to the fact that the teleport hit only registers hitting the blocks instead of the midget. Same thing if you teleported and hit a rock and a midget at the same time (I think, in theory it should be the same thing). With this said, it seems impossible to skip a level. Here are the theories I've came up with: Theory 1: The rocks that are falling down, time one just perfect, double flip, and diagonal kick it, then teleport. This theory WILL NOT work because like I said above, that piece of rock doesnt count as a platform, so the top of the screen wont move up. Theory 2: This is a promising theory and I think it will work. This is probably how I got to skip the level that one time. If you notice that when a rock hits, the top of the screen shakes. So, if you can time it right, Get the Highest double flip possible, and teleport right when the rock hits/the screen moves up. Time it perfect and the next level is yours.

Breaking news! Found a new trick just now. With beast and nightcrawler, you can speed up the falling stages a lot, maybe double the speed. Just as you hit the switches to open the platforms, jump and then directly do a down+attack. If you time it right, you will just miss the platform and continue downward at stomping speed. You cannot steer while you do this, but most platforms have a position where there are no energy barriers below. For those that don't you can boost in the first part, let go of attack to steer and continue at normal falling speed for the rest of the passage.

omg dude.. this works like a champ.. This will save LOTS of time. I've tried this trick before and was unsuccessful, but its like.. RIGHT after you hit the switch, down+A and BAM you go so fast. Very nice find dude. O.. and the funny thing is, you can actually go THROUGH the platform

Well, it would save a lot of time if anyone was actually making a new video (which it seems noone is). I would like to but I can't due to computer problems...

Whats wrong with your computer?and ya.. I dont think anyone is going to be doing a video :|. But someone will in the future and this information will be good for that. So all new information is welcome.

My computer only accepts two simultaneous keystrokes, so most games are impossible to play. Tetris might work but that's about it. For my last project (Kid Chameleon) I carried a computer from my lab to my home and back every weekend, and I'm not doing that again. But yes, any and every piece of info is good, someone might do it some day.

'your computer' only accepts two simultaneous keystrokes, so im guessing it beeps when you hit more than two? If thats the case then try going into the 'integrated peripherals' and see if there are any options (which I doub there will be). Gate a20 might be one of them, but I doubt messing with that will fix anything. If your computer doesnt beep, then get a new kb, preferably usb. I saw the kid chameleon run, I guess you would have to play and like the game to enjoy the run (this probably applies to any run for that matter).

It desyncs on me at the second part of the Pyramid level, with the spike column things shooting out at you. It seems like you take damage, but then you wind up 'bamf'ing into a wall and standing there like a retard, until you die. I'm not sure how this happens: it's perfect all the way up 'til that point in the game. Even so, I really didn't find much to complain about, except that you use Nightcrawler so damn much. Some of the levels, I understand, would be much easier if you used Nightcrawler, but then there are similar levels that didn't need Nightcrawler period. But i'll give you the benefit of the doubt because I could be wrong here. It looks great up 'til that point, but it kinda scared me at the beginning, since there was a level with Wolverine, and then magically, there was the title screen. I was wondering for a moment if you'd started the movie past the title screen, and I was almost ready to hit the 'No' vote because of that. Silly me. :P Eric's Verdict: Yes.

Nightcrawler is really necessary in most levels for a good time, because he runs so much faster than everyone else. The first submission using only wolverine was well over 30 minutes. If it desynched, did you: - get the correct rom? - set the controllers correctly? - set sound to 44k? (some people missed this previously)

The first two, yes. The second one, dunno. Have no idea. I'll set it and watch it again. Update: I finished watching it all. It was pretty darn good. I think what's needed to be said has already been said, so i'll just stick with my last verdict. :P