Because it's Moons, where obsoletions aren't done like that.

Because it's Moons, where obsoletions aren't done like that.

Wait, I'm confused. What if the current movie gets obsoleted by a run that doesn't use...whatever the heck happened here but ends up being very dull? Does that mean separate branch, rejection or moved to vault? :o

Wait, I'm confused. What if the current movie gets obsoleted by a run that doesn't use...whatever the heck happened here but ends up being very dull? Does that mean separate branch, rejection or moved to vault? :o

I think vault only accepts nameless (which means "fastest completion by any means" == "world record") and "100%" branches. If a submission is neither, it either goes to moon or not at all.

http://tasvideos.org/JudgeGuidelines.html#Branches http://tasvideos.org/JudgeGuidelines.html#ImprovementsAndObsoletions

I can see how this may be a different branch than the currently published run, but once the 100%-run is complete it may be worth considering whether that should obsolete the current run. Because in terms of showing off most of the gameplay, the 100%-run will (probably) do that better than the current run. That is, should we ultimately have two branches of this game (any% and 100%, i.e. this one and the one being worked on), or three (any%, 100%, and any%-with-no-quitting).

If 100% is submitted and considered similar enough to the current branch, and better, it will obsolete it. This submission can't obsolete it in most of the ways. So that decision will be made when the time comes.

This movie has been published. The posts before this message apply to the submission, and posts after this message apply to the published movie. ---- [2577] Windows VVVVVV "game end glitch" by Scepheo & Masterjun in 00:47.10

The slower published run now needs a branch name. Both of the authors like "No Esc", but I was thinking of something that more directly expressed what this run does to complete the game so fast, like "no game state manipulation". Obviously, this suggestion is open to discussion and possible modification to sound better. Otherwise, it seems that "No Esc" would have to be lengthened to something like "no Escape key" or "no pressing Escape" in order to be clear.

Well, to use a common TAS'ing phrase, "no esc" basically means not using a restart game sequence, i.e. the inverse of this category.

No esc is pretty understandable to anyone who's used a keyboard and can guess what esc does.

Ah, okay. Thank you both for your input; "no Esc" it is. This also makes the slower run the first movie to have the tag "Forgoes a time-saving restart sequence".

Please note, the page for that category gives an error: http://tasvideos.org/Movies-C3045N.html

Please note, the page for that category gives an error: http://tasvideos.org/Movies-C3045N.html

I don't see any errors... EDIT: it fails in IE, but not Chrome. Odd.

I get, "error_handler: errstr=Array to string conversion errfile=/home/tasvideos/public_html/inc/wikiexpr.php errline=174 error_handler: errstr=Array to string conversion errfile=/home/tasvideos/public_html/inc/wikiexpr.php errline=174 "

I'm still going to be against this "no esc" because it's "What the heck does "No Esc"ape really mean?" To the fool who doesn't own the game. The practical which you have created is still incorrect there needs to be more theory involve rather than jumping to conclusions. Let me point this out. There had to be a description to point out what "no Esc" actually means. Yet neither this one or the one famously titled "no Esc" explains what the heck it does in the description. You have written "See the submission comments for more details" the submission only explain Text storage and nothing else on why escape was used. I'm saying "why escape was used" you do mention text storage yet there is no explanation on how text storage works with the Escape key. Submission info or Movie info better mention and extra line or two actually explain how important Escape is besides mentioning text storage. Explain in another way? Oh okay. One of the TASes in this game is Masterjun. Masterjun you're really good at explaining stuff aren't you? Wait the movie's description had to explain it better (2nd line). Another way I hear?? Tell us the magical keyboard input, everyone lacks to perform these certain actions.

I get, "error_handler: errstr=Array to string conversion errfile=/home/tasvideos/public_html/inc/wikiexpr.php errline=174 "

That happens when one tries to view a movie page with no movies in it.

This is all the pointlessness you guys get after getting rid of the "glitched" branch. Enjoy.

This is all the pointlessness you guys get after getting rid of the "glitched" branch. Enjoy.

I agree to this and I disagree to saying "you guys". I wanted "glitched" to stay.

This is all the pointlessness you guys get after getting rid of the "glitched" branch. Enjoy.

^ It's not too late. Bring back glitched :)

Reasons to bring back Glitched #1: Any% is arbitrary. In Pokemon GSC it's not the first credits but the second credits. In SotN it's not the worst ending (kill Richter) or the best ending (kill Dracula with some really high map completion%) but the intermediate ending (kill Dracula). In Cave Story it's not the worst ending (escape on the dragon) or the intermediate ending (kill the Undead Core) but the best ending (kill Balos). In Pokemon Mystery Dungeon Red/Blue any% is beating the main plot, not the extended plot, even though it's a logical extension/the true conclusion of the game's plot. So already any% can mean two or three different things depending on the game. If any% is context dependent (defined by the game and community) then there's nothing holy about it. Plus in any% you can't do crooked cartridge/open disk tray/etc. #2 Yes, people can actually tell when a speedrun should be 'glitched' category or not! 'glitched' is primarily defined by having one incredibly powerful glitch or bug that demolishes everything equally well regardless of what kind of gameplay threat, elements or mechanics it poses. Anything that is heavy memory corruption, arbitrary code execution or arbitrary code editing that gets reached in a speedrun makes it 'glitched' - at that point you're not playing the game, but playing the hardware and whatever memory you can dump over it, and it barely even matters what the game was beforehand now. Any kind of technique that equally trivializes everything in the game regardless of what it is also counts - such as advance wars 'glitched' where you carry map editor properties into the campaign and make everything resign, no matter what it was. But for example OoT 17 minutes route is not 'glitched' - it's glitchy as hell, but everything you do in it is a distinct kind of technique, you don't really use any of it multiple times, it's hugely varied BASED on what gameplay challenge you are currently facing, from the wrong warp to the void warp to isgs and superslides and superswims. You don't have a giant hammer that you crush the game into a pulp with, you have a toolbox full of 9 different kinds of hammers based on what nail is next (so to speak). And since this one 'hammer' of yours is sooo powerful, it's not just 'arbitrary code execution' anymore, it's also 'arbitrary goal execution' - as MrWint said in the description of his pokemon silver TAS, the program he writes and executes could do something different if the community decided that the goals of a GSC speedrun changed - it would not change any of the route or techniques used, he'd just do the glitch in a slightly different way. So this one hammer by definition completes all goals - having to manually ban it from everything else is a kind of 'yeah, duh' - an excess of redundant information and redundant redundancy acts of repeated redundance. And as we've seen with games like SMW, if there are multiple equally powerful game-ending hammers, they both have to be banned from every lesser category, so you can end up with an explosion of category length. So more often than not 'glitched' vs just 'any%' is clear cut. (yes, I'm expecting this to be spun off into its own thread ;) )

In Cave Story it's not the worst ending (escape on the dragon) or the intermediate ending (kill the Undead Core) but the best ending (kill Balos).

We don't currently have an any% run of Cave Story, I'm not sure what you're getting at.

So already any% can mean two or three different things depending on the game.

Nothing arbitrary here, it simply means the fastest ending, and is consistently used as such. You know, if there are over 2500 movies on the site, then listing two or three corner cases isn't significant. It's possible that these two or three movies should have their branch renamed, but that doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the system. On the other hand, we've had several lengthy definitions of "glitched" and nobody has so far been able to give a definition for that which (a) isn't arbitrary and (b) is meaningfully distinct from "any%".

Anything that is heavy memory corruption, arbitrary code execution or arbitrary code editing that gets reached in a speedrun makes it 'glitched' - at that point you're not playing the game, but playing the hardware and whatever memory you can dump over it, and it barely even matters what the game was beforehand now.

... Which is not the case here. There's nothing 'arbitrary' about this entire TAS. It's just sheer luck that it's possible to wrong warp from a teleport to the ending sequence. There's no memory corruption, code editing or code execution here. As such, the 'glitched' branch name would, according to your description, be wrong.

In a long run, we would need a system that makes, say, 5 branches per game easy to handle on both the user and the staff sides. With Moons, you never know which branch will appear next, and if there are plenty, the system must be crystal clear. For now, any solution for that was delayed until there are actual problems. And only a few games provide real difficulties in categorization. But as I said, Moons remove the branch limit, so if we don't solve it in time globally, it then gives us more problems to solve locally, just like this one. First, I want to state, that "glitched" itself is as ambiguous as "any%": because it's literally anything that could lead to fastest/glitched game completion. Super Metroid is a good indication of that: both 2 fastest runs are "glitched" by what that traditionally used to mean, but they are both so well-received that they're both published. You can't get away with naming them "glitched". You would have to state, which glitch they use, or, maybe, which kind of a glitch it is. So in a long run, "glitched" label, though it showcases the difference from the "less glitched" branches, isn't unique enough to allow SEVERAL glitched branches of the same game, if they are well-received. Then, I would like to show my personal preference, that accounts for the long run of the Moons system and removes ambiguity from "any%". Here it is: No label must be left only for games that have no variety on how to complete it. If it gives you several endings, each ending must be labeled. If you can choose the amount of players, or the character that alters the gameplay over the other(s), put it as a label. If it is warps, their use must be part of the label. That way, the viewer will in 100% cases see what he's looking at. Basically, it's about which movie tags must become branches. Some of them already are, some better not be. If such approach is applied to varieties of glitched branches, there may appear "game end glitch", "SRAM glitch", etc. that would work for quite some cases, showing the similarity. This is all because I don't see any benefits in the "drop the label for every fastest branch" approach. It simplifies some management, but makes the other things much harder. And when used along with "no X" thing, it spawns really ugly issues.

In Cave Story it's not the worst ending (escape on the dragon) or the intermediate ending (kill the Undead Core) but the best ending (kill Balos).

We don't currently have an any% run of Cave Story, I'm not sure what you're getting at.

Patashu I have to agree, you didn't explain Cave Story properly... ------ Hmm... I think I can use this to drop the branch bomb by keeping only 3 (glitched/any%/100%). Okay. I'll create a quick glitched/any%/100% list myself off 2 characters. Crash Bandicoot and Spyro the Dragon. Even though we have not done any complete 3 TASes on it yet I will still bring this up. (This is mainly due to emulation fault or other) All these games have their own routes no mater what you try. Crash Bandicoot 2. glitched, *any% and 100%. Simple Crash Bandicoot Warped. **glitched, *any% and 105% Spyro 2: Ripto's Rage (Gateway to Glimmer for Europeans (if confused)) *** glitched(speedrunners dubbed this any%), *any% (speedrunners dubbed this 14 tailsman) and 100% Where can we go with this? Well there is one game speedrunners themselves don't want to do. Spyro: Enter the Dragonfly *any%, *any% ***NMS and 100% Now before you jump to conclusions to what I just wrote and claim the any% to be a non-glitched branch... it is. 1:07.23 - NTSC Gamecube * Would not be added into the branch field. ** This is a speedrun just to prove it that there is such thing. *** No Major Skips The point of any% is to show the complete difference there is to "glitched" and "100%" they all have their own routes, their own struggles. glitched: Doing the same damn game skipping glitch over and over again. Stares at Super Mario World - 5 DIFFERENT BRACHES FOR THIS GAME! (could be worse we could have all the SM64)[/size] any%: Completing as fast as possible with minimum requirements. stares at Metroid 100%: Max requirements, more planning, more routing, more backup strats. unable to stare at anything... there isn't much. (Note on this point I just made: I'm not taking to shit on Metroid or SMW I'm just pointing them out as those 2 games are more acknowledged to me seeing several different versions)