If I am correct, another thing to look at. When Zoizite placed in the code for armorless Samus, it looked like she was able to jump slightly higher than the Samus with armor. If that's true, then what more should we expect?
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Joined: 5/25/2007
Posts: 399
Location: New England
As of the defeat of Kraid, I am about 20s ahead of Hero's run. About 2/3 of the time savings came from a much faster final drop into Kraid's lair (thanks in part to SpiderWaffle's suggestion of popping out of the wall just after morphing off the top of the screen)
I expect to save another 2-5s in the rest of the run, but I'm taking my time hoping to discover as many savings as possible.
Joined: 5/25/2007
Posts: 399
Location: New England
Still cranking along on the any %...finally got the ice beam, about 23s saved so far. Progress is slow in part b/c I'm trying a "missile conservation" strategy which should theoretically allow completion of Tourian killing only 1 metroid. Time savings is minimal (~30-40f) but I thought it'd be a cool (and quite difficult) departure.
Joined: 11/14/2005
Posts: 1058
Location: United States
Is it really gonna save time to kill only 1 metroid? I kill 2 in my run, but both are killed at the exact same time. I don't know how it will save time to kill just the one.
Keep up the good work Lord Tom :D
Joined: 5/25/2007
Posts: 399
Location: New England
Great question. It saves time b/c killing 1 metroid you can fire the ice beam at max range and the 1st missile a few frames later (thanks to zoizite's trick for this) while still running. Killing 2 metroids, the 1st missile is not fired until both are frozen.
My testing showed that killing 2 metroids stops forward progress for about 84 frames. Killing 1 can stop progress for as little as 35-40 frames.
The obvious question, then, is whether one can do without the extra missiles without losing more than half a second or so. As of the ice beam, I have 70 missiles left and, as far as I know, have only lost about 4 frames conserving missiles. In many places I save lag by using 2 beams instead of a missile to kill the crawling enemies in vertical shafts.
By my calculations, as long as I can enter Tourian with 69 missiles it should be doable (20 for red doors, 5 for the metroid, 1 for the fire-missile-while-beam-is-in-the-air trick, 40 for zebetites, 33 for MB = 99; killing 1 metroid gives 30 = 69)
And thanks for the encouragement...;P
Gald to hear about the progress. Can you kill the zoomers while climbing that long column with 2 beams and not lose time? Also with ice beam you'll need to hit them 4 times. But you should be able to get missile pickups. You might need to get more missile pickups from earlier.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Joined: 5/25/2007
Posts: 399
Location: New England
The zoomers can be killed using the regular beam without losing time; the 1st shot is upward on the earliest possible frame, then the jump is a little to the side to avoid getting hit before the second shot lands. This is very useful because it allows several frames on which to kill the enemy for item manipulation. A strange fact is that items from enemies killed using the normal beam (vs missile or ice beam) show up sooner because the death animation is MUCH shorter.
It is possible to kill them using the ice beam without losing time, but there is only 1-2 frame leeway for item manipulation, and you'd have to then wait several frames for the item.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Joined: 5/25/2007
Posts: 399
Location: New England
Almost done. I'm in the zig-zag vertical room in Tourian. There's a lot of luck manipulation and lag-reduction work here, so it's slow going. Those rings are really @*&% annoying.
Sounds great, seems like you're really being careful not to overlook faster methods.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Joined: 5/25/2007
Posts: 399
Location: New England
I'm currently on the zebetites/mother brain screen and am almost 30s ahead of the existing run. My current job (1st year medical resident) has me working 80 hours a week, which has slowed things down, but I'll finish in the next week or so nonetheless!
Tourian has surprisingly proven to be the most interesting portion of the run. The existing run was just about frame perfect (I know, I mean as far as I can tell at least!) for the first two screens, but starting with the zig zag screen there were a bunch of little geometric, luck manipulation, lag reduction and sub-pixel positioning tricks I found that added up.
As a side note, I'd intended to submit both the any% and 1-item runs simultaneously, but this game is way too time consuming, so the 1-item will have to wait for a new burst of time/energy...:(
Joined: 11/18/2006
Posts: 2426
Location: Back where I belong
Good lord, that's a huge improvement. Will you be making your discoveries about frame savers public when you submit, so that someone can possibly get (re)started on the 100% run?
Also, good luck with your residency, I'm currently doing a clinical internship also, but my hours are a little less insane (only about 45/week).
Lord Tom, should you perform the 100%, are you will to use simple game restarting sequences that Zoizite never used in one of his? That might cut down about 10 to 15 minutes I predict.
Joined: 5/25/2007
Posts: 399
Location: New England
mmbossman: Yes, I'll try to disclose as much as I can remember about how time was saved in the run comments. I'd be happy to help anyone working on an improvement to any of the runs if there's something that's not clear. Many of my improvements to platforming, etc, could be widely applicable to the 100%. Thanks for the well wishing on residency; only my 1st year is this bad...45 hours a week is outstanding, and a little depressing since I'm currently working a 30 hour shift!
symbolic: I don't know in detail what you're referring to, but would certainly use whatever technique allowed for the fastest completion. I'm not intending to start such a run in the near future, however. If the any% took me a couple months, the 100% could take years...;)
Joined: 7/30/2006
Posts: 207
Location: Alefgard, USA
I look forward to seeing this finished run.
I seem to recall that in the current published run the last and final escape room is one time unit slower than possible.
Great new run!!
I sent you a PM.
Somethings:
I noticed when entering a lot of doors the screen had to auto scroll but no morph+unmorph or jumping higher was used when it could have been. Is this because of idiosyncrasies.
Also, what were you trying to get the ice beam from behind? There is a trick with the sweet spot glitch where if you can get the screen to scroll great than one screen down, then enter the door, the screen will scroll down two screens below the door and put you in that row usually (maybe always) off the screen. Then if you can find a way to get back onto the screen everything plays normal from there, assuming you transfered to a non-column area. The only way I know to get the screen lower than normal like that is to fall below the door then jump back up. So I was thinking you could do that by jumping up from below the hole you normally would bomb out. Problem is when ever I tried a big jump it seemed to warp/wrap-around me and I'd start falling down the column.
Collision detection while off-screen is something I don't fulling understand. Doing similar things in other vertical columns you don't experience this type of behavior. I think there's a lot more serious shortcuts to be found.
If you could ever find another way to get the screen to scroll down 1-pixel more you'd be in business for some major shit. Also, besides transferring into rows 1 and 2 rows below a door, there are ways to transfer into rows above doors too. I haven't even experimented with sweet-spot from below either, which I'm pretty sure is possible as well. Giving possibilities of transferring 1 and 2 rows above a door.
Also, how were you getting into kraid's room without kraid being there?
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Joined: 5/25/2007
Posts: 399
Location: New England
Spider-Waffle wrote:
I noticed when entering a lot of doors the screen had to auto scroll but no morph+unmorph or jumping higher was used when it could have been. Is this because of idiosyncrasies.
Yes, I believe I used morph-unmorph everywhere it was faster to. As to intentionally jumping higher, I didn't recognize that as a possible technique until after the ice beam. Two places it could have been used were in the blue and gold corridors en route to the ice beam. In the blue corridor, I was unable to make it faster (as measured by when the door opens after the screen transition; the most reliable timing technique I found). In the gold corridor, however, I was able to save 1 frame by jumping a bit higher, so whoever does the next one should definitely do that. SIGH...perfection is ever just out of reach!
Spider-Waffle wrote:
There is a trick with the sweet spot glitch where if you can get the screen to scroll great than one screen down, then enter the door, the screen will scroll down two screens below the door and put you in that row usually (maybe always) off the screen.
I have used the sweet spot glitch to scroll 1 screen down, but never 2. Any details you could give on how to get it to scroll 2 screens down would be appreciated.
Spider-Waffle wrote:
Also, how were you getting into kraid's room without kraid being there?
Basically, above Kraid's lair are 2 horizontal rooms where the door-glitch doesn't work (because the scrolling is horizontal). However, using the trick to enter a door and have it put you 1 row below, I entered one of the horizontal rooms, and the game placed Samus far to the left offscreen, with the scrolling mode set to VERTICAL. By watching Samus' x and y on the memory watcher, I was able to navigate Samus such that she was visible, then door glitch down 2 screens to Kraid's room, coming up from beneath. I was able to get the energy tank, but Kraid was a no-show. I'll see if I can find/make an .fcm demo.
Any details you could give on how to get it to scroll 2 screens down would be appreciated.
First you do the sweet spot (SP) from above, then move the screen all the way down one full screen. Now you need to get the screen to scroll down at least one unit more. The only way I know to do this is to fall below the level of the door, then jump up to it's height being careful not to jump too high. Then enter the door.
In short: SP from above, while entering same door--
Amount screen is scrolled down , Phenomenom
<1 screen , Pass through same door normally
=1 screen , Door event, entering 1 row below
>1 screen , Door event, entering 2 rows below
Whether or not you're off screen afterwards I haven't been able to figure out, it varies depending where you do it and I can't kind find a rhyme or reason to it.
I entered one of the horizontal rooms, and the game placed Samus far to the left offscreen, with the scrolling mode set to VERTICAL.
How on earth did you pass through a door in vertical mode (VM) to VM?! I know you can do what you described, but you'll be in horizontal mode (HM), then pass through a door entity off screen and be in VM in a horizontal row.
If there's some way to force VM or HM this could be huge.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Joined: 7/30/2006
Posts: 207
Location: Alefgard, USA
I apologize if this glitch has been previously found/posted, but here it goes:
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/108152368/Metroid%20-%20Infinite%20MotherBrain.fcm
If you kill mother brain and walk back toward the entrance of the room, she will be revived but only take one hit to kill with the escape music playing. You can even leave the room and return, it still takes one hit to kill her. I haven't tried to see if it still works after death/password.
If you go back too far too fast, she will be fully revived and music will be turned off completely.
