Joined: 7/12/2004
Posts: 146
Location: Dirty South, USA.
Arc wrote:
I am making a new as fast as possible version that will use the door glitch and Up+A.
I am also doing this run. I started it about 2 hours before you posted this. No password this time around. Can't afford the precious time. =)
I don't know what route you plan on taking, but this is the best one I could come up with:
*Brinstar Missle Tank
*Ice Beam
*Up+A
*Kraid
*Up+A
*Tourian
I thought about trying to get the upper left missle tank in Kraid's lair first, then going from there, but I would either have to backtrack too much or door glitch too many times, and I think it would end up slightly slower in the end.
Bombs are unnecessary.
Arc wrote:
In addition to being an excellent timeattacker, Zoizite has a good attitude. :)
Thanks. That means a lot. Your Metroid run was the reason I started, though. =)
If for honesty, you want apologies, I don't sympathize.
Did anyone notice that in the final climb at the end of the game, the screen changed with 865 timeunits on the clock? 6 time units faster than Arc's! :o
The whole run was just beautiful!
Again, beautiful run. I'm glad it got finally pulled off with style. I'm kinda spent on ideas for the game. The only other possible run I could think of was a no-boss run (collecting only the ice beam, bombs, maru mari and 2 missile tanks), but that would be painstaking as hell and not too fun to watch (leaving mother brain's lair with every dead zeebetite to collect more missiles). But I suppose it's possible.
As for Arc's run, it's basically flawless and I think incorporating UP+A to beat it should only be done by him before anyone tries something better using it - and even then, there's a serious question as to whether or not it's actually "better" than the current run posted. Even if he beats the frame count in every room, don't you guys think that might take away from the all-natural feel of the original. Right now, there are 3 runs of metroid:
1) SPEED Speed run - beat the game as fast as humanly possible. IMO, this is beating the game as skillfully and as fast as a player can within the realm of the game the way the creators intended.
2) FULL 100% run - beat the game and collect every item. This is more of a technical demonstration of the game than a skillful run through the game from beginning to end, although it shares some of the same attributes (speed, precision, etc)
3) MINIMALIST 1-item run - beat the game and only collect 1 item. This is by definition a technical demonstration, making it as difficult for the player as possible and still being able to finish the game, not to mention incorporating images that people have never seen (Tourian without the ice beam is pretty).
If anything should be improved using UP+A, I think it should be the 100% run and not the speed run, but I think all 3 are just fine the way they are and the standards have been set. If anyone thinks the speed run should be done better, maybe they should find a new route before they say "oh, I can do this much faster using the reset."
Oh - and I just found out the red rippers can be killed with about 200 hits with the regular beam. Absolutely nothing to do with anything, but it's exciting to me :)
For the optimal route using just the door glitch and no up+A I'm pretty sure it's going to kraid first. I remember I tried to work this all out using segments from previosly runs and adding and subtracting them. I think I decided that route Z sugested would be best for the door glitch and up+A, but it would be very close, someone might want to verify my arithmatic.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Hmm - I played around with going to Kraid's lair first quite a bit, but it doesn't seem possible to get any missiles without having missiles. How can you get missiles to open Kraid's door in Kraid's Lair without any to begin with? There are only 4 missile tanks there and they are all deep beneath missile doors or bomb walls. I even played with the door glitch to try to get me lower towards the missile tanks, but failed.
How is it possible to get missiles from Kraid's Lair without any going in there?
Hmm - I played around with going to Kraid's lair first quite a bit, but it doesn't seem possible to get any missiles without having missiles. How can you get missiles to open Kraid's door in Kraid's Lair without any to begin with? There are only 4 missile tanks there and they are all deep beneath missile doors or bomb walls. I even played with the door glitch to try to get me lower towards the missile tanks, but failed.
How is it possible to get missiles from Kraid's Lair without any going in there?
Go up the top left wall.
I'm starting to think now that Kraid first could very likely be faster for up+A and non-(up+A). For up+A, when comparing the routes, for the non-kraid one you basically are adding on the extra trip to the brinstar missiles, which is roughly 52 seconds and as far I can tell are basically only saving the time it takes to go around the missiles in Kraid's lair, which would be about 30 seconds of horizontal walking + glitch up the wall, doors and missiles, really close to 52 seconds ;\ Keep in mind you'd want to up+A after getting the ice beam for both routes so they end up being quite similar. Maybe one of you two should try the kraid first and the other the non-kraid first. I think it's close enough that only such a comparison would verify which route is faster.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Zoizite and I are making the new movie together. It gets the missiles in Brinstar because getting them from Kraid's, from what I've tried, takes at least 20 seconds longer (including the respawn wait from Up+A.)
Joined: 7/12/2004
Posts: 146
Location: Dirty South, USA.
Highness wrote:
So we can await another improvement then?
Definately.
I don't know how long this is going to take. We've pretty much just started. I had done up to a few rooms after the gold shaft, but I had hit a few snags along the way, including having to stall for 13 frames on the first shaft, and Arc's going to see if he can work them out.
If for honesty, you want apologies, I don't sympathize.
One thing I've always wondered is why you wait behind that spiky enemy in the first shaft where you have to turn into a ball. Can't you just roll trough it and take damage? I guess not (it seems too obvious) but I'm still curious as to why.
Joined: 7/12/2004
Posts: 146
Location: Dirty South, USA.
Truncated wrote:
One thing I've always wondered is why you wait behind that spiky enemy in the first shaft where you have to turn into a ball. Can't you just roll trough it and take damage? I guess not (it seems too obvious) but I'm still curious as to why.
You can't. It knocks you backwards, and by the time you get back to it, your invulnerability wears off, and you get knocked back again. It is possible to pass through after 2 hits, but it's no faster than waiting.
On a side note, we're up 61 frames from my previous run after 3 rooms, thanks to an excellent idea from Arc. =)
(Arc, I knocked another 20 frames off of what you sent me.)
If for honesty, you want apologies, I don't sympathize.
>You can't. It knocks you backwards, and by the time you get back to it, your invulnerability wears off, and you get knocked back again. It is possible to pass through after 2 hits, but it's no faster than waiting.
:D Thanks for the explanation.
I wish you both luck with your new cooperative project.
Joined: 5/4/2004
Posts: 90
Location: New Brunswick, Canada
Well, the "one item" run has already made it to VHS for the tapes I bring to a friend's place (poor guy has no computer).
If this one is even more impressive, it'll definitely have a spot :)
Are there any plans to do door glitch but no up+A run?
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
If your door glitched down to kraid, glitched up the to missiles, killed kraid, then went abd glitched down to the ice beam, then went to tourian you'd make pretty good use of the door glitch I'd say. I don't see why up+A is required, this would be a big improvement on the current non-(up+A) run.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Joined: 7/12/2004
Posts: 146
Location: Dirty South, USA.
With the time it takes to glitch twice and to take the long way out of Kraid's lair, you wouldn't be much faster than just going and getting the bombs.
If for honesty, you want apologies, I don't sympathize.
