I started it immediately after I saw TASeditor's post in the Kirby's Adventure thread about a glitch he had recently found to clip through sloped hills. As soon as I watched his video demonstrating the glitch, I was motivated to spend the rest of my afternoon and night creating this improvement to the glitched run of my favorite game.
About the run
Emulator used: FCEUX 2.2.1 (Old PPU)
Aims for fastest time
Takes damage to save time
Abuses glitches
Genre: Platform
Room by room comments
Room 1
I tried and tried to improve the beginning of this level, and almost did by 1 frame, but I just couldn't manipulate those Waddle Doos to jump toward Kirby and also not use their laggy attack, so I just hand-copied the same (apparently perfect) input over.
I discovered a little trick to turn Kirby around right before he swallows the Mix, saving a few frames because he doesn't have to turn around after the transformation.
I had some trouble sliding off of the tall mesa and not taking damage from the Hot Head and losing my ability or killing it and bouncing very high (both scenarios would waste time). By sliding off the mesa at just the right frame, I bounce low enough to enter the door without wasting a whole bunch of time.
Room 2
Kirby moves slower on slopes, so I jump over all of them in this room and all but one in the next (you'll see why).
The way I puff up and spit at the Bronto Burt is the fastest I found to do it without accidentally manipulating the Sparky at the end of the room to use his very laggy attack.
Room 3
I jump once at the very beginning to manipulate the Hot Head to not use his laggy attack on screen (he uses it after I leave the screen, but the level doesn't lag).
By jumping very high over the Poppy Bros. Jr., I make the Waddle Doo jump too, preventing him from using his laggy attack and just getting in the way of the glitch.
You can't clip through the slope with just one jump. You need at least two 1-frame jumps, one right after the other. The first jump pushes you into the line of the slope (where the game can push you back out if it wants to), and the second one decisively puts you on the other side of the line.
Once Kirby is inside the slope, I turn to stone to slow his lateral movement to move him slowly into the water (so he doesn't skip right to a swimming animation) and then use the stone glitch to skip to the credits.
Suggested Screenshots
1232, 1801, 1858
Thanks to
TASeditor for finding, sharing, and demonstrating this clipping glitch
MUGG for his previous glitched runs
feos: Setting to delayed until the frame war ends and we finally have a new movie.
feos: The framewar is over, CoolKirby promised to cancel this submission in favor to the final one, I guess it won't harm is I do so while he is away.
Good work, Masterjun! Do you think the run can be improved further?
If nobody finds a better route (I also tried some other ones, but they were slower or caused too much lag) then I think this run is already or almost really optimized.
The only thing I could imagine is slowing down at random places to get lucky and reduce the lag...
Warning: Might glitch to creditsI will finish this ACE soon as possible
(or will I?)
Post #348723 : you are awesome Masterjun!
Here's my last effort on Masterjun's latest attempt. (read description here and there):
I think the slope clipping could be improvable. Anything other than that part, I couldn't optimize furthermore.
edit: 2 frames shaved off by better wallclipping. will upload soon
edit2: room 1 improved with 4 frames thanks to better lag frame avoiding and bigger boost before starting to... suck? (pressing B...) Will upload syncable version.
PhD in TASing 🎓 speedrun enthusiast ❤🚷🔥 white hat hacker ▓ black box tester ░ censorships and rules...
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MESHUGGAH wrote:
Post #348723 : you are awesome Masterjun!
Here's my last effort on Masterjun's latest attempt. (read description here and there):
I think the slope clipping could be improvable. Anything other than that part, I couldn't optimize furthermore.
edit: 2 frames shaved off by better wallclipping. will upload soon
Post #348723 : you are awesome Masterjun!
Here's my last effort on Masterjun's latest attempt. (read description here and there):
I think the slope clipping could be improvable. Anything other than that part, I couldn't optimize furthermore.
edit: 2 frames shaved off by better wallclipping. will upload soon
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11475
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
That's just insane! AnS would be happy about what TASEditor does in skilled hands!
It's funny how he once said that it would be cool if someone would strike in here and there and shave off a few more frames where traditional method didn't help. MESHUGGAH appears to make these dreams come true. Wow!
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
It's funny how he once said that it would be cool if someone would strike in here and there and shave off a few more frames where traditional method didn't help.
I didn't say that you can't do incremental improvements with traditional method, it's just that they're naturally easier to do with nonlinear editing/auto-adjustment/lag log and stuff.
Holy heck, I thought 2183 was near optimal and you cut 13 frames below that.
One thing, it is possible to use soft reset instead of reset button without losing time (since reset button is unverifiable)?
That was amazing, MESHUGGAH! Can't wait to see this additional 1 frame improvement.
By the way, the 2169 frame run (the latest) syncs on PRG1, but not New PPU (on either ROM).
Ilari wrote:
One thing, it is possible to use soft reset instead of reset button without losing time (since reset button is unverifiable)?
I tested it, and it's not. You have to hold A+B+Select+Start for 21 seconds before anything happens. It's this long period of time of just holding buttons that causes it to be slower than hard resetting, even though the soft reset itself appears to be slightly faster than a hard reset.
I did, however, modify MESHUGGAH's 2169 frame run to replace the hard reset with a soft one. 13 frames had to be lost to make this possible, though the run is console verifiable now.
It doesn't, unfortunately. I tried all kinds of different input combinations. What it looks like on the new PPU (when this run is played back) is that it crashes to a garbled screen if you don't press Start as it's crashing, and if you do, it crashes to a black screen.
I also synced the "soft reset sync" version of the run on BizHawk, but it doesn't seem to be able to make it to the credits on that one either. Depending on what you press, it either freezes to a salmon-colored screen (with or without enemies) or warps you to the Level 1 (Vegetable Valley) intro and then freezes on a white screen.
It doesn't, unfortunately. I tried all kinds of different input combinations. What it looks like on the new PPU (when this run is played back) is that it crashes to a garbled screen if you don't press Start as it's crashing, and if you do, it crashes to a black screen.
Try different buttons at:
-P2 pad: any frame except around 840 (where the power up roulette starts)
-changing the position after/before the last "stone" use
-changing the very last frame before the crash
Since it's cpu clock/ppu cycle dependent, you can always trigger the ending credits with various input. Of course you will need to manipulate it blindly to make it console verified.
The 1 frame improvement comes from a better positioning at swallowing the 3 creatures, but trolls me after the 2nd jump at room 2. Lua script shows me ~+600 movement speed but it's actually gets reduced for no reason. Demo here.
PhD in TASing 🎓 speedrun enthusiast ❤🚷🔥 white hat hacker ▓ black box tester ░ censorships and rules...
The 1 frame improvement comes from a better positioning at swallowing the 3 creatures, but trolls me after the 2nd jump at room 2. Lua script shows me ~+600 movement speed but it's actually gets reduced for no reason.
Well, the reason is because you jumped on that 45° slope. The game then changes your position by using another address (I guess) because as soon as you hit the bottom of another floor you will regain the original speed...
Warning: Might glitch to creditsI will finish this ACE soon as possible
(or will I?)
Well, the reason is because you jumped on that 45° slope. The game then changes your position by using another address (I guess) because as soon as you hit the bottom of another floor you will regain the original speed...
This would explain it, however I don't understand how to regain the original speed without sacrificing any speed, since this way I have to delay it 1 frame (losing the improvement already).
PhD in TASing 🎓 speedrun enthusiast ❤🚷🔥 white hat hacker ▓ black box tester ░ censorships and rules...
Depending on what you press, it either freezes to a salmon-colored screen (with or without enemies) or warps you to the Level 1 (Vegetable Valley) intro and then freezes on a white screen.
You also have an second controller, or even the four score. These controller inputs can also affect it.
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11475
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
How about pressing the soft reset buttons on the second controller?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Little status update. Tested a lot of things, but couldn't improve anything more. The last movie I uploaded (the demonstration one) improves 1 frame at room 1 but loses it in room 2. Any other sub pixel positions at the sucking/swallowing part are likely to get lag frames before jumping/flying up to the cliff.
The remaining possible improvements I didn't test thoroughly:
-A different place to swallow enemies (okay, well I'm the only one who thinks this is possible so you can ignore this line).
-As Masterjun mentioned, decreasing your speed at various frames potentially removes a lag frame without changing the RNG. Of course the very same can happen backwards (being faster gives additional lag frames). You can use both D and "less" Rs to do this.
-Sometimes you can avoid lag frames with different length and starting positions for jumps.
-Optimizing the slope clipping
Good luck to anyone who finds a frame in the 2169 movie.
PhD in TASing 🎓 speedrun enthusiast ❤🚷🔥 white hat hacker ▓ black box tester ░ censorships and rules...
-A different place to swallow enemies (okay, well I'm the only one who thinks this is possible so you can ignore this line).
It is possible, since you can manipulate the Waddle Doo and Hot Head in the third room to walk toward each other and swallow them to Mix for stone instead of the enemies in the first room. But changing the route would lose all the little frame optimizations everyone's worked hard to implement, and it probably would end up slower anyway, so I don't think anyone should waste their time trying it.
It is possible, since you can manipulate the Waddle Doo and Hot Head in the third room to walk toward each other and swallow them to Mix for stone instead of the enemies in the first room. But changing the route would lose all the little frame optimizations everyone's worked hard to implement, and it probably would end up slower anyway, so I don't think anyone should waste their time trying it.
Well, this means you can skip the backtracking (more than 100 frames) and just swallow at the laggy room 3. Why would it be slower?
PhD in TASing 🎓 speedrun enthusiast ❤🚷🔥 white hat hacker ▓ black box tester ░ censorships and rules...
Don't you have to backtrack anyway once you reach the Waddle Doo, since the Hot Head is at least a screen away and usually is walking to the left?
You can manipulate the Hot Head to use laggy attack in room 3, that would "eliminate" the backtracking (and add lag frames, movement reduction). I tried to make a test movie but I can't reduce as much as many I improved with the "2169" route (literally I lose ~30 frames mostly because I'm bad).
Sparky and that red doo gives me Spark. Maybe the "order" of swallowing is important?
PhD in TASing 🎓 speedrun enthusiast ❤🚷🔥 white hat hacker ▓ black box tester ░ censorships and rules...
