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Posted: 10/31/2004 2:47 PM
Post subject: Plok
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Ramzi
Joined: 3/25/2004
Posts: 459
Just pitching ideas. I remember renting it as a kid, and it being very fun. Check out: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Fortress/6019/
Posted: 10/31/2004 6:08 PM
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Highness
Player (71)
Joined: 8/24/2004
Posts: 2562
Location: Sweden
I think this could/should be posted under "Big o list of interesting games" http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=497
Posted: 10/31/2004 10:23 PM
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BoltR
Former player
Joined: 8/12/2004
Posts: 651
Location: Alberta, Canada
Yeah I remember having a blast playing it as a kid, and I also remember it getting really hard in the later levels. I was hoping this was a "I'm starting on this game" thread rather then a "Someone start on this game" thread.
Posted: 11/1/2004 7:21 AM
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Jeffrey
Joined: 6/26/2004
Posts: 24
There's a rejected movie already: http://tasvideos.org/queue.cgi?id=243
Posted: 11/1/2004 7:24 AM
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Truncated
Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (979)
Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3109
Location: Sweden
Arcade TAS of 2023 Sega TASer of 2021 Sega TAS of 2021
From the submission text: "Plok! done warpless (there aren't any warps in Plok! :p), " But the page you linked to says there are a lot of warps. Who is right? I'm all for warps if there are any.
Posted: 11/1/2004 7:44 AM
(Edited: 11/1/2004 8:07 AM)
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BoltR
Former player
Joined: 8/12/2004
Posts: 651
Location: Alberta, Canada
There are TONS of warps. Ok a found a list that is complete I think. Location...................Destination ------------------------------------- CI - Beach (1)..............CI - Crazy Cradles (7) CI - Columns (3)...........CI - Blind Leap (8) CI - Log Falls (4)...........CI - Shell Game CI - Rickety Bridge (5)...CI - Bobbin's Brothers (9) CI - Blind Leap (8)..........A - Plok's House (12) A - Garlen Beach (10)......A - Shell Game A - Venge Thicket (23).....A - Shell Game A - Dreamy Cove (24).....A - Womack Spider (26) A - Crashing Rocks (29)...FP - High Flying (33) LI - Sponge Rocks............LI - Shell Game So the fastest warps would be 3 -> 8 -> 12 then it's obvious from there.
Posted: 11/1/2004 7:46 AM
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Truncated
Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (979)
Joined: 4/17/2004
Posts: 3109
Location: Sweden
Arcade TAS of 2023 Sega TASer of 2021 Sega TAS of 2021
Which leads me to believe that the author of that run didn't know the game very well and probably would have been rejected anyway even if the sound was working...
Posted: 11/1/2004 3:55 PM
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Ramzi
Joined: 3/25/2004
Posts: 459
I wouldn't mind doing speedruns, except I'm not experienced or patient enough. I can't shave frames like the rest of you can. Also, I have a lack of time. :-(
Posted: 10/9/2005 12:33 AM
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kooz
Former player
Joined: 8/3/2004
Posts: 100
Location: Michigan, United States
Okay, after my rejected movie which was submitted more than a year ago (I'll admit, it was pretty bad, and my first ever attempt), I have decided to start working on this run again. I don't know why or how I overlooked the fact that there ARE warps in plok, but this time I am using them. This entire movie is being done in frame advance, so no more sloppiness. Of course, I now realize that you can't play back a movie with sound when it didn't have sound emulation enabled during recording, so I've learned from that, too. Anyway, I thought I'd post my progress so far. Here it is, up to Fool's Gap. I do plan on redoing a warpless version, too. But I'm going to finish this run first.
Posted: 10/9/2005 12:45 AM
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nitsuja
Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1310)
Joined: 12/21/2004
Posts: 2687
Computer TASer of 2011 TAS of 2011 First edition TAS of 2011 Computer TAS of 2011 Sega TAS of 2010 Sega TAS of 2008 Sega TAS of 2007 Glitchy TAS of 2007
kooz wrote:
Of course, I now realize that you can't play back a movie with sound when it didn't have sound emulation enabled during recording, so I've learned from that, too.
Actually now something made without sound can be played back with sound using the "fake mute" mode. That came about because some SNES games had to be played without sound to record reliably.
Posted: 10/9/2005 1:32 AM
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kooz
Former player
Joined: 8/3/2004
Posts: 100
Location: Michigan, United States
No matter what combination of settings I try, any attempts at playing back my old movie result in an instant desync. A couple other things I should note... I am trying to avoid shells so as to avoid a "bonus plok" until I get the amulet. Also, the levels I am currently doing require almost no planning at all, however the upcoming Akryllic flea levels and bosses will take some planning. If anyone has any good ideas for this run, please let me know.
Posted: 10/9/2005 1:54 AM
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nitsuja
Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1310)
Joined: 12/21/2004
Posts: 2687
Computer TASer of 2011 TAS of 2011 First edition TAS of 2011 Computer TAS of 2011 Sega TAS of 2010 Sega TAS of 2008 Sega TAS of 2007 Glitchy TAS of 2007
kooz wrote:
No matter what combination of settings I try, any attempts at playing back my old movie result in an instant desync.
This happens for me even if I do disable sound emulation and use a previous version of the emulator... seems a lot like what happens when the ROM it was played on was bad, although apparently some people got it to work somehow. Anyway, the WIP you posted looks good to me. I'd hope to see more limbs flying around, maybe there aren't large enough groups of enemies for that to happen without missing with some but then again it probably won't look so bat if it looks like you're juggling your limbs around. edit: I just noticed this game does something really strange with the animation if you press left+right and then jump (you turn into a lumpy fireball thing with arms and legs attached).
Posted: 10/9/2005 2:46 AM
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kooz
Former player
Joined: 8/3/2004
Posts: 100
Location: Michigan, United States
I should be able to get some limbs flying around when the levels get a little more difficult :) I've got a couple more levels done, too. Had to take damage in order to save time... Now what I'm worried about is I have almost a full shell meter... Should I: A: Proceed while avoiding all shells, even at the cost of losing frames B: Proceed while trying to get as few shells as I can, and just ignore a "bonus plok" if I have to get one C: Re-do the entire run and attempt to collect fewer shells while choosing which ones will cost me the fewest frames Argh. Anyway, here's the latest WIP. Edit: Time for more planning... Looks like I will be starting over again. I will start taking more damage to avoid shells and therefore save time. Getting a "bonus plok" wastes 3.3 seconds (198 frames). *sigh* I really wanted to do a no-damage run, but the time lost by doing so is inexcusable... Back to the drawing board.
Posted: 10/9/2005 5:30 AM
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Less_Ashamed_Of_Self
Joined: 6/4/2005
Posts: 130
Location: Ontario, Canada
In the summer of 2004 I toted this game around frequently as being impossible to beat in it's cartridge form. In the summer of 2005 I beat it in cartridge form. Rock. I would EASILY watch this speedrun if it's ever completed.
http://lukewilliams.org http://thestratfordsketcher.com
Posted: 10/9/2005 6:38 AM
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kooz
Former player
Joined: 8/3/2004
Posts: 100
Location: Michigan, United States
Hahah... alright, nice to see some enthusiasm. I'll continue working on it, for sure. Basically right now, I'm just going back over the levels before I get the amulet. I need to make up for 17 shells to keep from getting a bonus plok and wasting precious time :) I can work them out, I'm sure. It's just finding where, that's all.
Posted: 10/10/2005 2:06 AM
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kooz
Former player
Joined: 8/3/2004
Posts: 100
Location: Michigan, United States
Okay, as previously stated, I have once again started from scratch. I have updated the WIP (v2), and I have completed up to Mace Cove. The new version has the following: - 23 frames faster - 20 shells less - Takes damage to save time/avoid shells I am still playing using frame advance, so movements should be pixel-perfect. I now have enough leeway to collect the number of shells I will need to progress to the post-amulet-acquisition stages without being forced to obtain a "bonus plok". More to come. Edit: Updated WIP. Now up to Sponge Rock. That is all for tonight. Edit: Updated WIP. Legacy Island complete. Edit: Updated WIP. Up to Penkinos.
Posted: 10/16/2005 7:17 AM
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kooz
Former player
Joined: 8/3/2004
Posts: 100
Location: Michigan, United States
Alright, well, I know this is a triple-post... but I have been working on this and it would be nice to get some feedback. I have completed up to Venge Thicket and would like to know if anyone has any other ideas for Penkinos before I continue.
Posted: 10/16/2005 8:01 AM
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nitsuja
Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1310)
Joined: 12/21/2004
Posts: 2687
Computer TASer of 2011 TAS of 2011 First edition TAS of 2011 Computer TAS of 2011 Sega TAS of 2010 Sega TAS of 2008 Sega TAS of 2007 Glitchy TAS of 2007
Looks good. The only thing I can think of for the Penkinos fight is that you can hold jump to jump in the air at the start of the fight, and hit one or both of the nearby things once before landing. (But maybe you already knew that and decided it was more important to get the rightmost one on the ground first.) It doesn't really look optimal to me as it is, but then again it is a really weird fight and you want to get the flag as far right as possible.
Posted: 10/16/2005 9:13 AM
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kooz
Former player
Joined: 8/3/2004
Posts: 100
Location: Michigan, United States
Ahhh, right you are. And here is the improved fight, saving 387 frames, thanks to your help and re-prioritizing. If you think it looks good, I'll proceed to Venge Thicket now.
Posted: 10/17/2005 4:02 PM
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nitsuja
Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1310)
Joined: 12/21/2004
Posts: 2687
Computer TASer of 2011 TAS of 2011 First edition TAS of 2011 Computer TAS of 2011 Sega TAS of 2010 Sega TAS of 2008 Sega TAS of 2007 Glitchy TAS of 2007
kooz wrote:
If you think it looks good, I'll proceed to Venge Thicket now.
It looks fine to me - it's over 6 seconds faster and I can't think of anything else that would improve it.
Posted: 10/18/2005 4:33 PM
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kooz
Former player
Joined: 8/3/2004
Posts: 100
Location: Michigan, United States
Pow. Now up to somewhere in the middle of Creepy Crag. EDIT: WIP7. Creepy Crag complete.
Posted: 8/1/2011 8:04 PM
(Edited: 8/16/2011 5:55 AM)
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partyboy1a
Player (138)
Joined: 9/18/2007
Posts: 389
We chose the wrong route right at the beginning. Here is the proof. At least 1500 frames faster. (Not 1700 frames, because I collected many shells, which will cost about 200 frames later on, at least I think so.) 1400 frames come from the different route. Edit: Lua script removed, you will find it in one of my later posts.
Posted: 8/9/2011 3:03 AM
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kooz
Former player
Joined: 8/3/2004
Posts: 100
Location: Michigan, United States
Awesome! I've been hoping someone else would pick this up for so long... Really nice find with the route change. I don't know why I never tested that. I'm really looking forward to seeing this as it progresses. If you post the WIPs you can at least count on me to watch them =) I'm particularly excited to see boss battles more optimized... I'm not sure if any scripting/luck manipulation tools/etc were around when I did my run, but I definitely didn't use any... I was (and still am) a noob at TASing, and frame-advance was pretty cutting-edge to me back then. =P Anyway, the whole run was freestyle, and as a result I'm sure there's a lot of room for improvements with the tools available now. I'm still hoping someone will do a warpless run eventually. Killing fleas (especially prior to getting the amulet) is a daunting task in terms of optimization to me. Can't wait to see more.
Posted: 8/9/2011 1:30 PM
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partyboy1a
Player (138)
Joined: 9/18/2007
Posts: 389
I extended the script a bit to record last input... This makes it much easier to optimize all those things. Another 110 frames saved... WIP3 (encode will come when I have redone the other levels)
Posted: 8/10/2011 4:17 AM
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kooz
Former player
Joined: 8/3/2004
Posts: 100
Location: Michigan, United States
You could avoid grabbing that shell at the very end by not shooting limbs on the lift. It's just one... but when I was nearing the amulet i had to specifically go around them to avoid a bonus plok, so it could matter in the long run.
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