In 2008, inichi demonstrated the full extent of subframe reset abuse in Chrono Trigger.
When Ersnes Rerecod Van Daaz Octava Deltius graced the land with his presence on the tenth of May, men fell to their knees as calamity brewed in the north.
Divine wrath descended upon a distant tundra. Thunder raged for several hours and the ground was carved anew. Soon the gods' message had reached even the farthest of lands:

"- Mid-frame reset support"

primary10bit444

  • Heavy glitch abuse
  • Uses sub-frame resets
  • Corrups save data
  • Demonstrates the glory of lsnes
Chrono Trigger (U) [!].sfc
md5sum:    a2bc447961e52fd2227baed164f729dc                                  Chrono Trigger (U) [!].sfc
sha1sum:   de5822f4f2f7a55acb8926d4c0eaa63d5d989312                          Chrono Trigger (U) [!].sfc
sha256sum: 06d1c2b06b716052c5596aaa0c2e5632a027fee1a9a28439e509f813c30829a9  Chrono Trigger (U) [!].sfc

Tricks and glitches

Loading corrupted save data

The game writes hash checksums upon saving; if the checksums don't match, the save(s) will be unloadable and displayed as empty.
Howewer, due to an oversight, it is possible to bypass this check and load corrupted save data by pressing Up+A on the save load screen.

Detailed commentary

Millennia Fair

Marle is picked up. If the Imp's house is entered without her in the party, the game will crash.

Zenan Bridge R1

The game is saved twice to set up save corruption at a later time.

Guardia Continent, Eastern Nebula

The position value 1F3E is partially overwritten with the party's current position, 4A50, resulting in the position 4A3E being stored in SRAM.

Guardia Continent, Imp's House

If Marle isn't in the party when entering this area, the game will crash.

The End of Time

The game is saved on a save point, resulting in the corresponding flag being set in SRAM. The subframe reset here is just for show - allowing the save to complete would yield equivalent results.

Zenan Bridge R2

The Zenan Bridge save is loaded. The game is then saved over the End of Time save and interrupted after the location values are written but before the save point flag is removed. This allows us to save anywhere.

Zenan Bridge R3

The game is saved on Zenan Bridge, resulting in a save file with a location value of 2000. We then exit the area and reset while the location value F001 is being written to the save file, resulting in SRAM containing the location F000.

Nu Ending

The location value F000 corresponds to the Nu ending, so the run ends when the save is loaded. Since triggering the ending in this manner wasn't intended, glitched graphics are briefly shown.

Special thanks to

  • inichi: for demonstrating the concept and making the extremely fabulous published runs.
  • Ilari: for making lsnes and helping with emulator usage and Lua scripting.

About obsoletions

The published any% and NG+ movies both abuse save corruption. This run is faster than both; obsoleting both of them seems to make the most sense.

Suggested screenshots

TBA

Nach: Reje... er... Judging.

turska: Replaced movie file. The new movie file is 46 frames faster.

turska: Replaced movie file once more. The new movie file is 12 frames faster.

Nach: I had a lot to consider in judging this run, the acceptability, the entertainment, the star issue, single or double obsoletion, and so on.
This run is clearly faster, made with a better emulator, and more real than the last run. Under these conditions, this run should be accepted to obsolete the current normal run. However this run is nowhere near as entertaining, so should it still obsolete it or not?
I watched the previous run a few times, my first reaction upon seeing it was that it was amazing and very entertaining, the second time was quite interesting too. On a third watch however, I found that the novelty wore off and the run wasn't all that entertaining. Since both these runs are about abusing SRAM, I'm accepting this run to obsolete the previous run, however, since there is very little entertainment in this run compared to the previous, it should be published without a star, a moon would be fine though.
Regarding the New Game+ obsoletion, I've mulled over it for a few days. It is loaded with a very pre-abused SRAM file. Technically, this current run here can also be loaded with a pre-abused file and cut the time down to mere few seconds. I find that pre-abusing a file sort of misses out on the point, and really is not deserving of a record. Since the main point of NG+ is to either show off new things in the game that can't be accessed otherwise, or beat the game significantly faster thanks to higher stats at the start, and the current NG+ run doesn't do the former, and it loses for the latter, I'm accepting this run to obsolete the NG+ as well.
Despite this double obsoletion for an abusing SRAM category, I think this site deserves a non abused version of CT and CT NG+, and I hope TASers will try to fill in these categories.


Synahel
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Former player
Joined: 1/19/2011
Posts: 260
Location: France
Good morning, memory abuse. I'm still amazed how such runs can be made, or even considered. Still, I prefer the previous run for the whole "WTF IS GOING ON HERE?!" effect. This one has it too, but a bit less. Anyway, amazing improvement.
Limne
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Joined: 2/24/2010
Posts: 153
Honestly, whenever I try showing Inichi's run to anyone, they just look at me like "what the hell is this?" They sometimes find the explanation interesting or funny. While less "mad," I find this version a bit easier on the eyes and ears. It's fast and more watchable and its a faster version of a published run so it must be published... All said and done though, I wish someone would get around to doing a 100% run that actually shows this beautiful, beautiful game off. Hell, I'd be happy with a playaround even.
RachelB
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Joined: 12/3/2011
Posts: 1579
moozooh wrote:
On a real console, you can push a button so fast the console won't register it—that wouldn't happen on the emulator.
Er, yes it does?
Obviously, this is a faster run and a great improvement. But something is missing in this run. Entertainment. I, personally, prefer a longer, but entertaining run, than a faster, but boring as fuck one. Voting No.
Have you watched the previous run? It spends more time loading, saving, and resetting repeatedly, over and over again than this run even lasts. While this is definitely boring, it's way less than the the previous published movie.
Player (48)
Joined: 3/11/2007
Posts: 94
Location: Japan
Turska, thank you for adding me as a co-author of the submission movie. It's good to see my demo smvs can see the light of day by the emulator advance. However, the movie has two unoptimized sections compared to my demo. Crono's house You can move farther before Mom talks to Crono. Leene's Bell When you return the pendant to Marle, Crono and Marle must be on the same pixel. Otherwise an extra waiting time occurs when Marle joins in Crono. I wish I could fix them, but I've been away from TASing for almost two years and I've never used Lsnes. It would be nice if you can fix them.
Joined: 5/8/2010
Posts: 177
Location: Entropy
Who need to fight bosses when you can just travel to the ending almost right at the start. I love this. Yes vote even tho for peoples that never played it might go wtf just happen.
Experienced player (764)
Joined: 6/17/2008
Posts: 146
inichi wrote:
Turska, thank you for adding me as a co-author of the submission movie. It's good to see my demo smvs can see the light of day by the emulator advance. However, the movie has two unoptimized sections compared to my demo. Crono's house You can move farther before Mom talks to Crono. Leene's Bell When you return the pendant to Marle, Crono and Marle must be on the same pixel. Otherwise an extra waiting time occurs when Marle joins in Crono. I wish I could fix them, but I've been away from TASing for almost two years and I've never used Lsnes. It would be nice if you can fix them.
I fixed them. Redoing the delayed resets will take a while.
Glitcher
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Joined: 3/24/2007
Posts: 216
Location: London, U.K.
CoolKirby wrote:
Though I'm not sure how I feel about this being the only current published Chrono Trigger run on the site (all others would be obsoleted). Could this could be published as a "glitched" category and the long any% run could be published again?
That's ridiculous! The previous run uses the same type of memory corruption as this one. There is no logical reason why this would be in a "glitched" category and not that one. We have enough arbitrary categories as they are, especially with something as absurd as Super Mario 64's "70 star backjump-less" run. This isn't a playaround for pure entertainment, it's about reaching the end as fast as possible by any means possible. This run beats the previous one by around twenty minutes, end of story! And really, I'm disgusted at everyone who voted No simply because this wasn't entertaining enough. The Pokémon Red/Blue run also uses memory corruption and is even shorter than this one! All we see is Red walking out of his house into the hall of fame, yet that run got acclaimed by the community. How do you explain that then?
ALAKTORN
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Joined: 10/19/2009
Posts: 2527
Location: Italy
inichi wrote:
Turska, thank you for adding me as a co-author of the submission movie. It's good to see my demo smvs can see the light of day by the emulator advance. However, the movie has two unoptimized sections compared to my demo. Crono's house You can move farther before Mom talks to Crono. Leene's Bell When you return the pendant to Marle, Crono and Marle must be on the same pixel. Otherwise an extra waiting time occurs when Marle joins in Crono. I wish I could fix them, but I've been away from TASing for almost two years and I've never used Lsnes. It would be nice if you can fix them.
inichi is back!!! O_O those were the two things I thought turska might've done better, as in talking to Mom before you did and same thing with Marle, but your explanation for Marle makes sense (I don't get it with Mom though) edit: ah, is it a scripted event and I thought wrong? it's good to see you back, where have you been? you should make a glitchless TAS... :(
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Joined: 8/4/2005
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By the way, I don't think this should obsolete the NewGame+ run because the NG+ one beats the game in (semi-)conventional way, final boss and all, doesn't use the same glitches, and is remarkably different from any other kind of run.
rog wrote:
Er, yes it does?
If the signal reaches the emulator, it is recorded. If it doesn't, it means it didn't reach the emulator in the first place. If that happens, blame something in the chain of "keyboard—port—driver—OS".
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
ALAKTORN
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Posts: 2527
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moozooh wrote:
By the way, I don't think this should obsolete the NewGame+ run because the NG+ one beats the game in (semi-)conventional way, final boss and all, doesn't use the same glitches, and is remarkably different from any other kind of run.
they both use save corruption, I don't see how the same glitch used suboptimally grants a new category
moozooh wrote:
rog wrote:
Er, yes it does?
If the signal reaches the emulator, it is recorded. If it doesn't, it means it didn't reach the emulator in the first place. If that happens, blame something in the chain of "keyboard—port—driver—OS".
it's called lag
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Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5777
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ALAKTORN wrote:
they both use save corruption, I don't see how the same glitch used suboptimally grants a new category
Ah, you're right. I forgot what made the current version so much faster.
ALAKTORN wrote:
it's called lag
It's not. Lag is latency, meaning the signal you send goes through the entire chain at some point; it doesn't account for situations when it doesn't go through at all. The emulator, on the other hand, has no intended "windows of opportunity" within a frame, outside of which it doesn't receive any input.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Guga
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Joined: 1/17/2012
Posts: 838
Location: Chile
Glitcher wrote:
This isn't a playaround for pure entertainment, it's about reaching the end as fast as possible by any means possible. This run beats the previous one by around twenty minutes, end of story!
"Our runs may not be perfect (if that is even possible), but are still high quality and aim to be as entertaining as possible." Also, entertainment is subjective. Everyone has a different sight of it.
Glitcher wrote:
And really, I'm disgusted at everyone who voted No simply because this wasn't entertaining enough.
Anyone can vote whatever they want. That is not your business. PD: You acted really rude this time, you know that?
Tub
Joined: 6/25/2005
Posts: 1377
adelikat wrote:
If you are talking about the currently published 20 minute movie, this will have to obsolete it. It is the same glitch done better. More importantly the currently published movie has been proven invalid! It relied on the fact that saving takes 2 frames, and so reset can happen after one frame and corrupt memory. But it only takes 2 frames because snes9x is inaccurate in its emulation, it should only take 1, thus sub-frame reset would be required to corrupt ram.
On that note, can we please delay publication of this movie until we're reasonably certain that lsnes gets it right? Maybe this research has already been done; in that case I'd appreciate a link in the submission text.
m00
Joined: 4/3/2005
Posts: 575
Location: Spain
The previous TAS is starred, was a top contender in the "funny TAS" category of its year, and used the glitch in more interesting ways. This TAS is clearly miles inferior in the entertainment category, something like that also happened with the "A boy and his blob" TAS, and I think it was a mistake to obsolete that one. An old rule of the site states that faster runs aiming to obsolete others can be rejected if the slower run is more interesting to watch, and thus I vote NO based on those grounds. However, if the previous run could coexist with this one (maybe relabel it as a playaround), I would change the vote to yes.
No.
Joined: 6/9/2011
Posts: 29
DrJones wrote:
However, if the previous run could coexist with this one (maybe relabel it as a playaround), I would change the vote to yes.
Previous run shouldn't exist in the first place, because it's based on emulation errors, if i interpreted adelikat's post correctly. Which is a shame considering the amount of jawdropping situations in that old run and how glitchy it was (it's one of the best glitchfest show-offs imo).
ALAKTORN
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Joined: 10/19/2009
Posts: 2527
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abyrvalg wrote:
Previous run shouldn't exist in the first place, because it's based on emulation errors, if i interpreted adelikat's post correctly.
I think adelikat just meant that the save corruption timing would've been different on an accurate emulator, not that the whole movie is due to emulation inaccuracy...
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ALAKTORN wrote:
abyrvalg wrote:
Previous run shouldn't exist in the first place, because it's based on emulation errors, if i interpreted adelikat's post correctly.
I think adelikat just meant that the save corruption timing would've been different on an accurate emulator, not that the whole movie is due to emulation inaccuracy...
Actually, he wrote this:
If you are talking about the currently published 20 minute movie, this will have to obsolete it. It is the same glitch done better. More importantly the currently published movie has been proven invalid! It relied on the fact that saving takes 2 frames, and so reset can happen after one frame and corrupt memory. But it only takes 2 frames because snes9x is inaccurate in its emulation, it should only take 1, thus sub-frame reset would be required to corrupt ram.
So the prevoius movie is INVALID!
mklip2001
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Joined: 6/23/2009
Posts: 2227
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If this is published, we could always make a link back to the currently-published 20-minute movie. It would be similar to what we've done with Super Mario 64, where that publication has a link to the latest 16-star run (to my current knowledge). Just because a movie is obsoleted doesn't mean it goes away... sure, it has diminished visibility, but the people who are really interested in Chrono Trigger will probably look through submission comments anyway and would check out interesting links. I would definitely be in favor of also having a longer run on the site which doesn't abuse save exploits, like inichi's old 3-hour testrun. In fact, I'd even be in favor of submission and publication of that run now, at least until something better in that category comes along. While it is a testrun, it's still pretty solid quality, and it may inspire others to work on a better version. Obviously, though, it's inichi's decision whether to submit the testrun though. (There's been a few instances on this site where rather good movies, and even improvements of other movie, were passed up or canceled in the hopes of an improvement that never really came. Off the top of my head, Ocarina of Time was the biggest example, until bloobiebla's movie got done. Some other examples: Diman's run of Legend of Toki, Bestiajerule's run of Streets of Rage 3, Sonikkustar's run of Super Fantasy Zone, hisatoki's run of Gdarius. The only time I can think of lately where a known suboptimal movie was published anyway was Glitchman's Mega Man 4 run.)
Used to be a frequent submissions commenter. My new computer has had some issues running emulators, so I've been here more sporadically. Still haven't gotten around to actually TASing yet... I was going to improve Kid Dracula for GB. It seems I was beaten to it, though, with a recent awesome run by Hetfield90 and StarvinStruthers. (http://tasvideos.org/2928M.html.) Thanks to goofydylan8 for running Gargoyle's Quest 2 because I mentioned the game! (http://tasvideos.org/2001M.html) Thanks to feos and MESHUGGAH for taking up runs of Duck Tales 2 because of my old signature! Thanks also to Samsara for finishing a Treasure Master run. From the submission comments:
Shoutouts and thanks to mklip2001 for arguably being the nicest and most supportive person on the forums.
ALAKTORN
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jlun2 wrote:
Actually, he wrote this:
If you are talking about the currently published 20 minute movie, this will have to obsolete it. It is the same glitch done better. More importantly the currently published movie has been proven invalid! It relied on the fact that saving takes 2 frames, and so reset can happen after one frame and corrupt memory. But it only takes 2 frames because snes9x is inaccurate in its emulation, it should only take 1, thus sub-frame reset would be required to corrupt ram.
So the prevoius movie is INVALID!
which to me translates as: “what he did with a frame could’ve been done with a sub-frame”, and if you want to invalid a movie simply on a small timing mistake, then I think the whole site would need to be shut down :\ no emulator is perfect and none might ever be… they’re bound to have a few small timing mistakes, but as long as everything done on an emulator is actually possible (even with slightly different timing), then the movie is legitimate in my opinion obviously if adelikat actually meant that what’s done in the 20′ run is impossible on console no matter the circumstances, what I just said is moot (and the run should be removed from the site, or something)
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people try to push the game's limits to its fullest and you wankers are saying it's not "fun" enough?Why is this site becoming so geared toward subjective fantasies of "constant shit on screen and any mario game" fans?It's this kind of thought that stops great discoveries from being made! We would still be playing OoT in 5 hours because 'baclkwlaking is not cool". go to hell,dammit. BTw,has the staff considered having a list of all of the TASs of a game?
I want all good TAS inside TASvideos, it's my motto. TAS i'm interested: Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS? i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.
Dwedit
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Posts: 692
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This is a "Triggers credits early" run, not a "finishes the game" run. Just like using the warp glitch in Ocarina of Time to take you from Dogongo's Cavern to the Ending cutscene is different from defeating Ganon as child link from warping out of the deku tree. If you trigger end credits early without actually beating the boss, it should be a separate category.
Guga
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grassini wrote:
you wankers are saying it's not "fun" enough?
grassini wrote:
"constant shit on screen and any mario game" fans?
grassini wrote:
We would still be playing OoT in 5 hours because 'baclkwlaking is not cool".
grassini wrote:
go to hell,dammit
Very mature from you. =\
Editor, Expert player (2073)
Joined: 6/15/2005
Posts: 3282
grassini wrote:
people try to push the game's limits to its fullest and you wankers are saying it's not "fun" enough?Why is this site becoming so geared toward subjective fantasies of "constant shit on screen and any mario game" fans?It's this kind of thought that stops great discoveries from being made! We would still be playing OoT in 5 hours because 'baclkwlaking is not cool". go to hell,dammit.
That was uncalled for. Do not force me to edit your posts.
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ALAKTORN wrote:
which to me translates as: “what he did with a frame could’ve been done with a sub-frame”, and if you want to invalid a movie simply on a small timing mistake, then I think the whole site would need to be shut down :\ no emulator is perfect and none might ever be… they’re bound to have a few small timing mistakes, but as long as everything done on an emulator is actually possible (even with slightly different timing), then the movie is legitimate in my opinion obviously if adelikat actually meant that what’s done in the 20′ run is impossible on console no matter the circumstances, what I just said is moot (and the run should be removed from the site, or something)
Well, actually, it translate to me as while it is possible on a real console, it is "invalid" as it relies on the fact that SNES9x takes 2 frames to save while on real console, it takes only 1, so the previous run can be considered "impossible" using only frame advance.
Editor, Experienced player (570)
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Glitcher wrote:
CoolKirby wrote:
Though I'm not sure how I feel about this being the only current published Chrono Trigger run on the site (all others would be obsoleted). Could this could be published as a "glitched" category and the long any% run could be published again?
That's ridiculous! The previous run uses the same type of memory corruption as this one. There is no logical reason why this would be in a "glitched" category and not that one.
The currently published run is in the exact same category as this run, Glitcher. You just said yourself that they use the same glitch, so like I said, this run would obsolete the currently published "glitched" run. If you were confused by the phrase "long any%", I was definitely talking about the original 4+ hour run (which contains no save corruption).