This is a great project, but I think the name Droid64 sounds too much like a N64 emulator for an Android phone.
Too much? It's exactly the same name :P That's exactly what I was thinking too when I saw the name.
Derakon wrote:
I do have to wonder if any other N64 games are as accurately emulated as SM64 is that this would work for them, though.
I'm sure there are others. Turok 1 would probably work as good as Mario 64, because it has the same framerate, but games with highly variable framerate like Goldeneye and many others will probably be impossible to get to sync, at least the way Mupen 64 emulates them now.
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Nice work on the N64 bot, SoulCal. I was impressed that an N64 TAS would be verified now when people had only begun to verify NES TASes, so that seems like a major leap.
I'm fine with changing the name of the device, but saying the "N64bot" seemed just kinda bland. :p
I attempted Turok64, and it had controller pack issues, and I had to add about 30 blank frames at the beginning to skip the title screen. It won't sync. Mischief Makers got to the 4th level then desynced. Zelda games...don't bother asking me. :/
I would like to try Smash Bros and Mystical Ninja, but I don't have those games.
I will try and enter the "Lubbock Texas Maker Faire" April 28th. A maker faire is basically an exhibition of, possibly hundreds, of projects, gadgets, DIY stuff, and machines developed by the common person. I will submit the Droid64 (or whatever you want to call it) into this faire to show off and advertise the site. There are a few things I need from everyone who wants to help:
1. What should the name of the device be for my booth? I like "Droid64" because it catches people's attention. If anyone else has a proposed better name for me to advertise it as, then please post a reply.
2. I need a description of the device itself to submit in my application. I want to incorporate the fact this was designed for the site and for speedrunning purposes. I can't put my thoughts down well on text so if ya'll could create a good description that incorporates these aspects then please do so.
3. If anyone lives in the Lubbock, Texas area and want to help with the setup, then I could use the extra help with my booth. Also, if you have any games that you want to lend me then I'd like to try them out.
Looking for pretty much any game on the N64 that has a TAS (except Turok, Zelda games, and Mischief Makers).
Link to the Maker Faire: http://lubbockmakerfaire.com
1. What should the name of the device be for my booth? I like "Droid64" because it catches people's attention. If anyone else has a proposed better name for me to advertise it as, then please post a reply.
I'd modify that just slightly to something like "Droid64: A Nintendo 64-playing robot". Even though "robot" isn't a fair description of what it really does, it will grab people's attention and give them an idea of what the booth is about. You can quickly explain that there's a fixed input and the game's code is deterministic, so you can beat games faster than a human would normally be able to.
SoulCal wrote:
2. I need a description of the device itself to submit in my application. I want to incorporate the fact this was designed for the site and for speedrunning purposes. I can't put my thoughts down well on text so if ya'll could create a good description that incorporates these aspects then please do so.
See my previous comment for a very brief description. I think you can pad that out a bit. Actually, I just wanted to highlight your use of the word "y'all". You really are from Texas...
SoulCal wrote:
3. If anyone lives in the Lubbock, Texas area and want to help with the setup, then I could use the extra help with my booth. Also, if you have any games that you want to lend me then I'd like to try them out.
I'm in San Antonio now, so it would be one heck of a drive, but not out of the question. I'd be lying if I said I'm not tempted. Do you get a small compensation for having a booth at the Maker Faire? If so, paying for my gas money might sweeten the deal...
Anyway, I've seen clips from the Bay Area Maker Faire and it looks like an absolute blast, but I've never had the privilege of going. I'd love to take part if it's the right opportunity!
Using a bot of my own design, I managed to get the "0 star" M64 run to sync on the console.
Link to video
I haven't tested any other games or runs yet (I only just got this working last night).
I eliminated the controller circuit board all together and instead faked a controller with my bot. Since it's hard to see in the video, I shoved wires into the controller port (I'm waiting for a controller I ordered to steal the cable from). Any time the console asked for new buttons, I sent it new buttons.
I had to modify the .m64 file to match what the bot wanted. I cut out all the metadata, and then swapped the endianness of the controller data to make my bot code happy. Beyond that I didn't modify it at all. I didn't even have to add any frames to the beginning or anything.
I used the parallax propeller chip which is pretty inexpensive, meaning others could duplicate this on a low budget. Slightly off topic, but the NESBot runs great on this chip as well, so I can definitely see an NES/SNES/N64 combo-bot in the future. I'll get my code up in the google code project soon so you guys can look it over.
You know what would be cool? If there were leds on the circuit board that light up to show which buttons are being pressed (iow. one led for each controller button). Even cooler if they were positioned (at least approximately) in the same way as the buttons on the console's controller.
I'm not an electronics expert, but I'm assuming this ought be relatively easy to implement.
Using a bot of my own design, I managed to get the "0 star" M64 run to sync on the console.
I eliminated the controller circuit board all together and instead faked a controller with my bot. Since it's hard to see in the video, I shoved wires into the controller port (I'm waiting for a controller I ordered to steal the cable from). Any time the console asked for new buttons, I sent it new buttons.
I had to modify the .m64 file to match what the bot wanted. I cut out all the metadata, and then swapped the endianness of the controller data to make my bot code happy. Beyond that I didn't modify it at all. I didn't even have to add any frames to the beginning or anything.
I used the parallax propeller chip which is pretty inexpensive, meaning others could duplicate this on a low budget. Slightly off topic, but the NESBot runs great on this chip as well, so I can definitely see an NES/SNES/N64 combo-bot in the future. I'll get my code up in the google code project soon so you guys can look it over.
This is awesome. Glad someone else could verify runs. Yeah, I didn't have to add frames at the beginning either. When I was doing the bot last semester, I thought about faking the controller pulses as well, but that just seemed difficult, haha. I'm curious as to how you did it though. Glad you found a low cost alternative to my $150-$200 method.
How did you do the polling? I just made it so when I see a falling edge on the left plug I send another input. Did you use all of the polling bits instead? (I think there was 8 bits?) And please don't tell me you used verilog to program this...
Double post, naughty me. :p
I was accepted to be in the Lubbock Maker Faire on April 28th, and will be presenting my Droid64. I already have helpers, but if anyone lives in the Lubbock area or wants to come, tickets are available now online (or you can pay at the door).
http://lubbockmakerfaire.com/
_
Double post, naughty me. :p
I was accepted to be in the Lubbock Maker Faire on April 28th, and will be presenting my Droid64. I already have helpers, but if anyone lives in the Lubbock area or wants to come, tickets are available now online (or you can pay at the door).
http://lubbockmakerfaire.com/
_
Congrats!
I have a suggestion. You mentioned before that you can't try other games because you don't have them. Would using a rewritable cartridge work? You can then try different games and if other games sync, you could present them along with the SM64 run. :)
Double post, naughty me. :p
I was accepted to be in the Lubbock Maker Faire on April 28th, and will be presenting my Droid64. I already have helpers, but if anyone lives in the Lubbock area or wants to come, tickets are available now online (or you can pay at the door).
http://lubbockmakerfaire.com/
_
Congrats!
I have a suggestion. You mentioned before that you can't try other games because you don't have them. Would using a rewritable cartridge work? You can then try different games and if other games sync, you could present them along with the SM64 run. :)
I highly doubt a rewritable cartridge would work. I've tried Majora's Mask, Banjo-Kazooie, Turok, Ocarina of Time, and Mischief Makers. All these games (except mischief makers) use the rumble or controller paks. This screws up polling because load times in these games do not turn off polling of the controller. I am assuming this is screwing up the timing of when new inputs are sent, as an area has already loaded or is still loading. I had to add about 30 blank frames for OoT,Majora's Mask, Turok, and BK at the beginning of the files just to get pasts the title screens. Mischief Makers is a little more reliable, and even though the screen transitions (the collages of all the game characters) are different panels from the published TAS , it still syncs well. The game always desyncs though when Marina collides with enemies. I confirmed this by creating my own m64 file and it synced up until I dashed into an enemy. This is probably due to that emulator error discussed in the submission about the framerate dropping if too many graphical things are on the screen.
Well, a rewritable cartridge could at least be used to test the runs of games you don't own. Hopefully, one of the runs will sync so you can show more than just SM64 during the Lubbock Maker Faire.
Joined: 9/21/2009
Posts: 1047
Location: California
Couldn't you theoretically use this and a high definition capture card (or something else to record) to get really accurate N64 encodes with working games?
Couldn't you theoretically use this and a high definition capture card (or something else to record) to get really accurate N64 encodes with working games?
Unfortunately, the N64 video output is pretty crappy, so you wouldn't get good-quality encodes.
Allegedly TASVideos N64 videos are way better in video quality than SDA ones, and most of the difference is due to what N64 outputs.
Joined: 9/21/2009
Posts: 1047
Location: California
Ilari wrote:
sonicpacker wrote:
Couldn't you theoretically use this and a high definition capture card (or something else to record) to get really accurate N64 encodes with working games?
Unfortunately, the N64 video output is pretty crappy, so you wouldn't get good-quality encodes.
Allegedly TASVideos N64 videos are way better in video quality than SDA ones, and most of the difference is due to what N64 outputs.
Notice I said accurate, not good quality. I suggested a high definition capture device so no quality would be lost, not because I think it could upscale or somehow make the game look amazing. Of course the N64 wouldn't be able to output at the resolutions emulators are capable of. I just think it would be cool to see what the game would natively look like with input from a TAS movie. What I'm saying is that the point of the special encode would be to show the game as accurately as possible, not to get the highest quality video. The quality isn't too "bad" anyway. This, for example was recorded directly from an N64.
The N64 can be RGB modded for better video output.
One thing I've thought about, by the way...
The Super Mario 64 TASes, although they sync on the real console, the end time isn't the same due to different lag compared to the emulators they are created with. I think this is important to point out, because it's something the "console verified" status kind of ignores. I think the time the TAS achieves on the real system should be listed for the "console verified" videos. Honestly I think it's more interesting than what it happens to get on some inaccurate emulator.
Joined: 9/21/2009
Posts: 1047
Location: California
MARIO CHIP 1 wrote:
The N64 can be RGB modded for better video output.
One thing I've thought about, by the way...
The Super Mario 64 TASes, although they sync on the real console, the end time isn't the same due to different lag compared to the emulators they are created with. I think this is important to point out, because it's something the "console verified" status kind of ignores. I think the time the TAS achieves on the real system should be listed for the "console verified" videos. Honestly I think it's more interesting than what it happens to get on some inaccurate emulator.
I've thought of this as well and wondered how it can possibly be incorporated into movies when possible. Your move, staff!
I've thought of this as well and wondered how it can possibly be incorporated into movies when possible. Your move, staff!
Does the N64 movies in TASVideos measure their length based on "VI" like dolphin, or frames? Maybe that's why the time seems different, yet the movie still syncs.
Does the N64 movies in TASVideos measure their length based on "VI" like dolphin, or frames? Maybe that's why the time seems different, yet the movie still syncs.
Yeah, the site measures length in terms of fixed-length units (VIs), but the bot works in terms of input frames. So lag emulation not being correct does not matter (unless lag itself affects randomness).
Edit: ... or if the game polls even when it doesn't need the results.
I've thought of this as well and wondered how it can possibly be incorporated into movies when possible. Your move, staff!
Does the N64 movies in TASVideos measure their length based on "VI" like dolphin, or frames? Maybe that's why the time seems different, yet the movie still syncs.
The time seems different, yet the movie still syncs, because the time on mupen is plain wrong. Mupen is emulating sm64 (along with every other n64 game) horridly incorrectly.
Joined: 3/8/2012
Posts: 398
Location: Windfall Island
Is there any possibility of something like this being made for gamecube?
IronSlayer wrote:
Your counterargument would be like me saying that the Earth is round and then you telling me that I need to show it's flat so I can "prove us all wrong".
Is there any possibility of something like this being made for gamecube?
It would only work with games that don't poll while loading (including any hardware-based polling).
Because if game polls controllers while loading from optical drive, botting it becomes pretty much impossible.
Joined: 10/12/2011
Posts: 6442
Location: The land down under.
Ilari wrote:
Abahbob wrote:
Is there any possibility of something like this being made for gamecube?
It would only work with games that don't poll while loading (including any hardware-based polling).
Because if game polls controllers while loading from optical drive, botting it becomes pretty much impossible.
So that's basically;
NES/FDS,SNES,Genesis,Gameboy,Gameboy Advance,DS,n64, Windows ;p and that's all I can think of.
WebNations/Sabih wrote:
+fsvgm777 never censoring anything.
Disables Comments and Ratings for the YouTube account.Something better for yourself and also others.
