Post subject: Mortal Kombat: Armageddon / Deception
Editor, Experienced player (885)
Joined: 1/23/2008
Posts: 529
Location: Finland
The next Mortal Kombat I've set my eyes upon. Although a while back I abhored Midway for their arguably lazy design choices for this game, now that I've actually tried it I'm finding it surprisingly fun and addictive. Because of the multiplayer? Nah. Arcade-mode? Konquest-mode? No. Driving mini-game? Definitely not! Well, what is it then...? Quite simply... the awesome glitches it has! I sort of envision a big, at least 40-minutes long playaround of this game that would visit all of the play modes and create all sorts of insanity on the way. First building up cash for creating an own character, maybe in Konquest-mode... then more infamy... well, I'm sure I'll come up with the rest as I continue glitching it. For some reason the Wii version doesn't emulate too great for me, with save states practically unuseable. To be honest, I'd prefer using the PS2 version. But since the start of the run is still far away, who knows if TASing PS2 games becomes an option at some point until then. For now I've done the glitching on PS2, both emulated and on an actual console as well. So, about the glitches. I've been exploring something called the jumpover glitch in this game, and another related glitch which I've simply called the blank move-glitch. With jumpover glitch you can load moves from a wrong movelist. The most infamous incarnation of this glitch is the possibility to do Impale with Sub-Zero, never mind that the move is blocked in MKA. Also, it doesn't cause Sub to lose his weapon like it should... it's the foe who loses their weapon instead in the process! (found by check4900) But it's the blank move-glitch (BM-glitch from hereon) where the combinatorial shit-hits-the-fan explosion truly begins. Blank moves are numerous in this game, although accessible only using jumpover glitch. They are basically empty move ID slots, if even that. They were a mystery to me for a long time, because it always seemed they did nothing but freeze your character on their tracks and cause a certain stiffness to their movement. But the fact is that the effect of a blank move can vary a lot. A lot! You see, MKA has an address that keeps track of your current/last attack or other animation (like taking damage, etc.) A blank move directly reads this data, and tries to utilize it when you access it. But for the most part this game ties up moves as you do them so that there is nothing left for the blank move to really use in normal circumstances. However, there exists a few techniques in the game for interrupting animations at any point and letting their data stay in the temporary memory. If you then access the blank move, strange things may happen... moves with wrong properties, characters disappearing into the ground. Loads and loads of game crashes. And the research isn't even very far in yet... Here's a playlist of the MKA stuff I've uploaded so far.. MAJOR UPDATE: ------------------ It turns out that a variation of jumpover glitch and therefore blank move glitch is also doable in MK: Deception. This means that both games are now ruined. Good candidates for a playaround, although MKA is still better because you don't have to trouble yourself over unlocking characters and such, and the roster is huge. Sucks that Shang Tsung can't morph in these games, though. Smaller update: ----------------- Made a blog post explaining the jumpover glitch a bit better. A decent-sized update: ------------------------- There's more discussion about this run here: http://mk-tas.forumprofi.de/showthread.php?tid=11
Post subject: made a MK: Deception glitchfest TAS
Editor, Experienced player (885)
Joined: 1/23/2008
Posts: 529
Location: Finland
Bump. Informing you that I made a small-scale MK: Deception glitchfest TAS, and it is uploading on Youtube as we speak. It only consists of two-player fights and doesn't complete the game. For a playaround, that's acceptable, right? Dolphin worked like a charm while making the run, with the exception of one thing: after the last fight, the game complained that there's no MK: D data file available, although I made one at the beginning of the run to change the game options. Actually, the more I research it, the more it seems that a certain radical glitch in the last fight messes things up inside the game, including the saving. Very interesting... So it might not be the fault of Dolphin after all. The real run is supposed to end after I manually enter the "Kredits"-screen from the main menu, but I cut off the error message and credits from the encode above. I'll probably submit this run in a few days. It'll take some time to write the submission info, for one...
RachelB
She/Her
Player (129)
Joined: 12/3/2011
Posts: 1579
Did it become accidentally corrupted due to a careless save state reload somewhere?
Perhaps if you started playback from the start, then loaded a save state that was after the file was created, before getting to that point. Otherwise, not likely.
Editor, Experienced player (885)
Joined: 1/23/2008
Posts: 529
Location: Finland
I've continued by researching MK: Deception's Konquest-mode. I have to make a movie file of it anyway eventually (for an all character playaround TAS), so why not just make a TAS of it? Unfortunately, my progress is halted by save corruption. For some reason my profile becomes corrupt every once in a while. I've tried to play through the segments of this game with and without major skips, but eventually I always hit a profile corruption snag. I'm thinking there is something wrong here that transcends savestates... Example: - I have a savestate in Outworld - go from Outworld to Nexus, auto-save - go from Nexus to Orderrealm, auto-save... error message! profile is damaged. - I reload the savestate - go from Outworld to Nexus... error message! profile is damaged. (got the error message sooner than the first time around, despite loading the same savestate) Also, at this point, most other savestates from the last hours may also start showing the "profile is damaged"-message if the game attempts to autosave. What can be done to prevent this error from occurring in the future? Maybe backing up the memory card file...
Player (71)
Joined: 8/24/2004
Posts: 2562
Location: Sweden
Um... Maybe ask in the Dolphin thread? Sounds like something for the developers to sort out. Is it possible to delete the memory card file? Try that before coming to one of those auto save points perhaps? Is it possible to turn off the auto save function within the game it self, or is it needed for any kind of glitches or so?
Editor, Experienced player (885)
Joined: 1/23/2008
Posts: 529
Location: Finland
I think I'll do one more deeper examination if a particular skip or a style of glitch doesn't cause this profile damage to occur. The game first auto-saves, then as the loading screen to next area appears, it starts complaining about a profile damage and halts your game. On some occasions it has helped to load a good older save state and complete some objective in it, then switch back to a newer save state. It's not possible to turn off the autosaving function, which is a darn shame.
Emulator Coder, Skilled player (1113)
Joined: 5/1/2010
Posts: 1217
Almost sounds like savestates don't properly save/restore memory card state? Is it possible to dump memory card so one could try to analyze what is going on?
Editor, Experienced player (885)
Joined: 1/23/2008
Posts: 529
Location: Finland
As mentioned on irc... >>Almost sounds like savestates don't properly save/restore memory card state? Yeah. >>Is it possible to dump memory card so one could try to analyze what is going on? Don't know. Programming/debugging is something I know very, very little about.
RachelB
She/Her
Player (129)
Joined: 12/3/2011
Posts: 1579
Just to be clear, you are recording a movie when this happens? Memory card state is not saved at all if not.
Editor, Experienced player (885)
Joined: 1/23/2008
Posts: 529
Location: Finland
No, I wasn't recording a movie. I guess that should bring more clarity to things the next time I start playing Konquest-mode.
Experienced player (704)
Joined: 2/5/2012
Posts: 1795
Location: Brasil
Link to video kreate a fighter strategies Link to video also testing characters for a clean movie, no saveram needed Link to video air cancel infinite is horrible, stomp characters or some unscaled launcher is probably the way to go: Link to video the wii version is way less broken than ps2, a lot of properties in moves change to disable infinites or exploits
I want all good TAS inside TASvideos, it's my motto. TAS i'm interested: Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS? i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.
Experienced player (704)
Joined: 2/5/2012
Posts: 1795
Location: Brasil
Link to video This is a TAS for the KAF character, I named her TASLady. Shes uses infinite combos to destroy the whole cast of the game in Endurance Mode. https://tasvideos.org/UserFiles/Info/637878279688830899
I want all good TAS inside TASvideos, it's my motto. TAS i'm interested: Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS? i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.
Dimon12321
He/Him
Editor, Reviewer, Experienced player (596)
Joined: 4/5/2014
Posts: 1222
Location: Romania
Looks repetitive, but not too long to get bored. I guess, people will ask for a verification movie of how you made TAS Lady and saved the data, if you submit a movie.
TASing is like making a film: only the best takes are shown in the final movie.
Experienced player (704)
Joined: 2/5/2012
Posts: 1795
Location: Brasil
i did some normal speedruns of these games, since the verifcation movie rule is very confusing and already made me waste a shitload of time: Link to video Link to video
I want all good TAS inside TASvideos, it's my motto. TAS i'm interested: Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS? i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.
Experienced player (704)
Joined: 2/5/2012
Posts: 1795
Location: Brasil
Dolphin is kinda a hard emualtor to use so for now ive given up on TASing any full game of the 3d game series, but here are some kontents for the MKA konquest run, the best combos for speedrun: Link to video Link to video I believe the theoretical perfect round would be ground combo 46% Ground Pound and aa combo, but ground pound is normally used to make the enemy jump, however it may not work close to walls as the enemy only does this behavior with some distance. AA combos are unscaled! Taven best: 46 initial combo gp(8) 47 aa combo 46 initial combo : sword b2 f3 or 4 dont remember ss 1 1 112ss Thanks to the expert Eleventy Two, MKDA SCHOLAR, we also have the best string documented for KAF: 2-Hand Knee Strike > Bone Breaker > Ninja Strikes this with tornado wind kills in 3 reps and half or 3 reps if the enemy has weapon. This is the strongest character in the Arcade and endurance mode but needs a savefile. for RTA people use goro for consistency but there's no character as strong as KAF in TAS Also a new glitch hunter has been playing around with mkd and mka, it's SJ and the discoveries are on the following channel: Link to video mk speedrun and 3d mk discord: https://discord.gg/rVhSFF225X https://discord.gg/RmCkKV9JgB Conclusions about 3d mk: Nitara is the best in MKDA, KAF is the best in MKA MKD isn't clear but prepause glitch and second round pause throw glitch SJ found out may be a solution for great combos, ashrah seems to be the best but maybe the glitch allows for easy ohko wtih dairou or somebody else
I want all good TAS inside TASvideos, it's my motto. TAS i'm interested: Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS? i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.
Experienced player (704)
Joined: 2/5/2012
Posts: 1795
Location: Brasil
could somebody change this thread name to add Deadly Alliance to the topic's name? and delete my post afterwards maybe Link to video bike kick from liu kang does 29% and shujinko's does 7%, he may be relevant character to test as the best onaga killer
I want all good TAS inside TASvideos, it's my motto. TAS i'm interested: Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS? i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.
Experienced player (704)
Joined: 2/5/2012
Posts: 1795
Location: Brasil
https://tasvideos.org/UserFiles/Info/638153687659315946 ashrah wip since i cant do verification movies, i hate this, but at least you enjoy a small wip Link to video
I want all good TAS inside TASvideos, it's my motto. TAS i'm interested: Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS? i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.
Experienced player (704)
Joined: 2/5/2012
Posts: 1795
Location: Brasil
I want all good TAS inside TASvideos, it's my motto. TAS i'm interested: Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS? i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.
Experienced player (704)
Joined: 2/5/2012
Posts: 1795
Location: Brasil
I want all good TAS inside TASvideos, it's my motto. TAS i'm interested: Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS? i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.
Experienced player (704)
Joined: 2/5/2012
Posts: 1795
Location: Brasil
that feeling when you find a skip after finish TAS because the TAS sparks interest and somebody gives a good suggestion LOL Link to video I tested Save Quit, it doesn't seem to work at most situations, i tried skipping jade fight, mileena training, tanya fight, sindel training, first kami placement in nexus and scorpion, those didn't work, the characters dont' activate the next part of the game at all second kami and fourthkami placement skips work ! cant tell if it's faster though
I want all good TAS inside TASvideos, it's my motto. TAS i'm interested: Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS? i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.
Experienced player (704)
Joined: 2/5/2012
Posts: 1795
Location: Brasil
https://tasvideos.org/UserFiles/Info/638197295493779677 Monster skip implemented and confirmed to not create any problem whatsoever when returning to Nexus after Chaos Realm, but i don't have the patience to redo the whole thing SJ used memory engine to find xy positions and we tried some skips to no avail, sindel can't be broken into without tanya fight, which activates the door loading sindel cell, all house interiors are one place and the game loads different stuff depending on the door, interior coordinates are 1030 1030 for xy while the normal map is at 200 -200 coordinates usually
I want all good TAS inside TASvideos, it's my motto. TAS i'm interested: Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS? i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.
Experienced player (704)
Joined: 2/5/2012
Posts: 1795
Location: Brasil
I want all good TAS inside TASvideos, it's my motto. TAS i'm interested: Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS? i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.
Experienced player (704)
Joined: 2/5/2012
Posts: 1795
Location: Brasil
I want all good TAS inside TASvideos, it's my motto. TAS i'm interested: Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS? i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.
Experienced player (704)
Joined: 2/5/2012
Posts: 1795
Location: Brasil
I want all good TAS inside TASvideos, it's my motto. TAS i'm interested: Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS? i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.
Experienced player (704)
Joined: 2/5/2012
Posts: 1795
Location: Brasil
I want all good TAS inside TASvideos, it's my motto. TAS i'm interested: Megaman series, specially the RPGs! Where is the mmbn1 all chips TAS we deserve? Where is the Command Mission TAS? i'm slowly moving away from TASing fighting games for speed, maybe it's time to start finding some entertainment value in TASing.