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In my game, right arms would take 57 seconds to get. (playstation) I don't know if Farringa used the so-called 'perfect tactic' versus DG. In my battle, DG will only attack once (and miss).
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Won't right arms be useful for a ways into the game before you get a better way to win battles? If you can steal 2 per encounter that seems like it could be really time efficient, not to mention saving money at the same time.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Post subject: encoding video
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Which is a better way to win battles? Can you give an example where right arms save over 57 seconds? I'll have powersoul and trine within 10 in-game minutes. latest news: video is encoding and will be uploaded to youtube would anyone find annotations useful? (there are small plot skips + tricks that you may not notice)
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Yeah, if you have time to add them, might be cool to know what is going on behind the scenes.
Post subject: Re: encoding video
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antd wrote:
would anyone find annotations useful? (there are small plot skips + tricks that you may not notice)
Yes. Why not?
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get out your popcorn for this one: new stuff is 1 hour 50 minutes long edit: i'll release the segments over the next few weeks
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Don't you have to encounter a certain number of bombs, or at least delay yourself to avoid the ecounter? Is 57s a real fair measurement, is that for additional encounters beyond the required? And doesn't right arm do over 5 times the damage as a grenade and to all targets, seems like that could save well over 57s when having to kill multiple enemies that take 5 grenades each. What are the encounters in the next 10 minutes which right-arm could save time?
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
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everything you are talking about has been tested :D btw, grenades are no longer used. right arm is faster against sneaky steps x3, but doesn't save near 57 seconds. update: Part 8: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpjVyemS5cU Part 9: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6PzyRctvrw Part 10: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXd7umR--dQ Part 11: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtlYuciEeC8 Part 12: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVww2szM7AM Part 13: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kt-tyQ7t0y0 Part 14: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GG1yV6N56Jw Playlist: http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=6475094B5F9060AA edit: fixed links
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Exciting updates! Your latest post on page 16 has errors. The Part 10 link sends you to part 13. The Part 13 link is broken. The new links on page 1 work fine. Keep it up. I can't wait for more progress!
Working on: Legend of Legaia, Vagrant Story
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I won't work on this run for a long time. Bosses Only Sample H0512: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1995wzSWAIQ Hundred / Heli Gunner (Longest Boss in the speedrun) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6Gm3RY4NrQ Rufus: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHJbfuC8iug Motorball: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2dWzvqq7Ts Bottomswell: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ye-U3B8R3IU Jenova BIRTH: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=085y6zUPWc4 The grenade strategy doesn't allow for much of a time improvement. I think the upcoming boss battles are much more fun (Overpowered Tifa). Oh, unless a new trick is discovered, Pre-emptive is not possible on all bosses.
Post subject: Re: bosses
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antd wrote:
I won't work on this run for a long time.
Sad to hear that, but we'll wait patiently for your return. Looks great so far.
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To this day, I still believe Final Fantasy 7 has the most kick ass boss music.
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I'm wondering why the ether in elmyra's garden was so important to get. It seems like you have plenty of grenades and were never low on grenades, then aren't there some more valuable items you can get later like in the coastal towns that only take a couple extra seconds to get. Also does anyone know all the possible items you can get at the end of midgard like in those shinny yellow containers. I think you can get the bio 3 item somehow, I know I had one shortly after leaving midgard before. Could save time on the sea monster battle. I'm also wondering if omni-slash will ever be acquired, it seems like it'd be the fastest way to win some boss battles, so trying to use cloud's limit break more often to get it sooner might be something to consider.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
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I suspect you are getting the M-Tentacles item confused with the Deadly Waste item.
Name: Deadly Waste Max Limit: 99 Description: Casts Bio2 on all enemies Price: N/A Sell: 1 Rarity: Very rare Locations: Shops Cannot be bought Find Cannot be found Win Smogger (No.5 Reactor/Disc 1 Only) Brain Pod (Shinra HQ/Disc 1/2 only) Jayjujayme (Wutai Da-Chao Statue) Slalom (Junon) Steal Zenene (Shinra HQ-Top floors/Disc 1 and 2 only) Morph Brainpod (Shinra HQ/Disc 1/2 only) Name: M-Tentacles Max Limit: 99 Description: Casts Bio3 on all enemies Price: N/A Sell: 1 Rarity: Very rare Locations: Shops Cannot be bought Find Cannot be found Win Malboro (Gaea's Cliff/Disc 2)(Northern Crater/Disc 3) Sneaky Step (Gi Cave/Disc 1 only) Steal Malboro (Gaea's Cliff/Disc 2)(Northern Crater/Disc 3) Morph Cannot be morphed
Information came from this guide: http://www.gamefaqs.com/ps/197341-final-fantasy-vii/faqs/42714 I also checked half a dozen other guides in order to confirm, and I didn't see any discrepancy here. So, I suspect you are rembering it wrong. As for Omni-Slash, you would need to enter the Arena several times which will be a huge time waster, in order just to earn the BP to get the Omni-slash item, not to mention Cloud needs to have got all the previous limits - requirements are, in order: 1/2 - use Braver 8 times 2/1 - kill 120 enemies after getting Cross Slash 2/2 - use Blade Beam 7 times 3/1 - kill 200 enemies after getting Climhazard 3/2 - use Meteorain 6 times; All these requirements make getting the Omni-Slash even slower. This is not even to mention the slow animation time which could be further replaced by more than a few Tifa Deathblows with Powersoul. Either way, you haven't thought this post through, so I suggest you do so before you post in future.
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I'm wondering why the ether in elmyra's garden was so important to get. It seems like you have plenty of grenades and were never low on grenades, then aren't there some more valuable items you can get later like in the coastal towns that only take a couple extra seconds to get.
what about that part of my post And so you can get a bio2 item from smogger in the reactor, how long does that take? Ya the omni-slash wasn't well thought ought, I forgot you needed to get an item for it, but 2/3 of my post has been useful so far.
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It requires beating an enemy to get the Deadly Waste, which is a time waste in two instances - it wastes time to get, and wastes time for the animation when using it. The only enemies you should be fighting is those encounters you cannot avoid, and a random fight is not one of those. Ask antd about the Ether, I'm not entirely sure why it was needed. So far, you have 1 unanswered question and a waste of forum space, so don't pat yourself on the back for no reason.
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Looks like you can steal it from a Zenene, I know there were some random encounters in shinra HQ, I'm not sure what enemies they were though, also you could have a random encounter sooner against a different enemy to avoid the random encounter later. So if one of these enemies was included in the subset of random encounters which were faster to take, then it wouldn't take more than 6 seconds to steal it, or maybe 12 to win. Then it could possibly make the sea monster fight more than that amount of time faster.
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dunno about deadly waste, didn't test it it would depend on how long it takes to get the right enemy (could easily take 15 seconds+) do you think it is worth losing 5 - 7 seconds to show two glitches? i think it is i forgot to mention that one of the glitches allows the party to be 1 level higher, so it is possible that it could save some time in the future. although this has not been tested.
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Did a bit of research. Deadly Waste uses the Item damage formula and does a 96 base damage attack. This sounds like a lot, but when you compare this to Grenade (160 base damage) and M-Tentacles (2400 base damage), it pales in comparison. The only thing going for it is the ability to cause Poison status, but you get the Poison materia just before Sample HO512, which obviously aids in a few places (Bottomswell, Materia Keeper, etc), and costs a lot less time to collect than each Deadly Waste item.
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I don't know if this was talked about, but it might be useful. Way back when I played the game, I noticed that the item curing fury can acutally give it. And from what I remember, it doesn't influence precision at all
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And what about the ether in elmyra's garden? I just can't understand why it was worth 30 seconds to get, there's other items which only are only a couple seconds of seconds out the of the way in other parts of the run, I know the ones early on aren't worth as much as the ether, but the ones in the coastal towns I think are worth more. It seems like you've always had at least 40 extra grenades so you'd be fine on grenades in the short term until you visit the shops before golden saucer, and I can't imagine needing 40 grenades in the next 10 minutes. So deadly waste doesn't do a more powerful poison attack than bio1? Are you saying the item that cures fury can cause poison? I'd rather just see a video showing the glitch, maybe it can be edited into the real video with an explanation, but I think the real run should just go for speed. Spending 4 seconds to gain a level for 3 characters could be worth it, just have to think of how it will let you go faster in the future. The faster time between actions should help at least, not sure what's going to be killing the bosses.
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I think the mistake with the Ether is caused by spending all the cash he had on Grenades, but not allowing enough cash to buy the Batteries (which are required to ascent to Shinra HQ). Each Ether sells at 1500 gil, which is a lot of cash for that point in the game, so it would allow some leftover for later spots in the game, since cash is not readily available. I can understand him not going back and correcting this mistake in order to progress with the game - he would have had to get the Ether anyway, so it didn't cost as much time as you would think in the long run.
So deadly waste doesn't do a more powerful poison attack than bio1? Are you saying the item that cures fury can cause poison?
No, if you're able to read (which at this point I very much doubt), he said the word 'precision'. I assume this is a reference to Fury status adding an accuracy drop to attack, and Sadness increasing accuracy. I'd very much like to see evidence that a Hyper can induce Sadness, or a Tranquilliser can induce Fury, because from what I know, if you are in Fury, you can use Tranq twice to enter Sadness status, and in Sadness you can use Hyper twice to enter Fury. I seem to be the only one backing up anything I've said with researchable evidence, everything else suggested has been both circumstantial and impossible to verify.
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Spider-Waffle wrote:
I'd rather just see a video showing the glitch, maybe it can be edited into the real video with an explanation, but I think the real run should just go for speed. Spending 4 seconds to gain a level for 3 characters could be worth it, just have to think of how it will let you go faster in the future. The faster time between actions should help at least, not sure what's going to be killing the bosses.
While I think Toothache is being rather harsh, ultimately I am inclined to agree that most of the ideas you've suggested are examples of "out-loud wondering", not backed by any research. There's been all sorts of runs of this game in the last few years, from 100% to minimum XP/no materia/no limits/no equipment runs, and the research behind these playthroughs have debunked most theories suggested here and pretty much proven that the best way to play this game speedwise is to avoid fights whenever possible; the gain from XP and items is just not worth the long battle cinematics and fight times you'd endure. There are a couple exceptions to the rule, but FF7 is a pretty well-researched game (though TASing is still [relatively] a new type of run). Note I am not claiming any level of expertise; I have a passing familiarity at best. I'm just chiming in to point out that a lot of these suggestions are not new, and that it might behoove some viewers to check out the minimalist playthroughs to get a better idea of how little a difference it often makes to acquire abilities/gear. Also, you can't cause Fury with the Tranquilizer; it cures Fury, and if you aren't in Fury status, it induces Sadness. Hyper removes Sadness and induces Fury from normal status. I think you are a bit mixed up there. (And yes, I know Toothache explained this just above, but his wording may be misleading, so I'm just clarifying.)
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Don't the batteries cost 100 each, and you only need 2, maybe you have to buy 3, but that's only 300 (anyone know exactly how much you need I tried to research it but found nothing), When he enters the shop after getting the ether he has 41 grenades 3 ethers, 1 hi-potion, and 1 phoenix down. Had he only 2 ethers at that point he would still have 41 grenades and at least 3800 gill which is plenty to get the batteries and more grenades. After genova birth battle he has 9 extra grenades, so you would need about 800 more gill if not getting the ether, but also can't you buy more grenades in either the town after midgard or the town where you fight the sea monster? If so you could skip the shop after talking to elmyra if you had 253 more gill when you buy grenades the first time, since you'd need 3 extra grenades since after leaving midgard he has 33 and he buys 36 I believe before shinra, and instead use the shop in one of these towns, effectively costly very little extra time provided you can get an extra 253 gill without spending too much time; possibly less than it takes to get the ether. And the deadly waste, you actually do fight a zenene in the run with A B and R after leaving cloud, you could steal it here costing less than 5 seconds or so, plus maybe more time to equip the steal materia. Then you could skip the bio materia saving 2 seconds, or get it and sell it for 1500 later (as part of skipping the ether), and use deadly waste on the sea monster, which I'd think should save at least 2, maybe 5 attacks including the sea monster's so upwards of 10 seconds saving there, net gain 5 or more seconds.
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Spider-Waffle wrote:
Don't the batteries cost 100 each, and you only need 2, maybe you have to buy 3, but that's only 300 (anyone know exactly how much you need I tried to research it but found nothing), When he enters the shop after getting the ether he has 41 grenades 3 ethers, 1 hi-potion, and 1 phoenix down. Had he only 2 ethers at that point he would still have 41 grenades and at least 3800 gill which is plenty to get the batteries and more grenades. After genova birth battle he has 9 extra grenades, so you would need about 800 more gill if not getting the ether, but also can't you buy more grenades in either the town after midgard or the town where you fight the sea monster? If so you could skip the shop after talking to elmyra if you had 253 more gill when you buy grenades the first time, since you'd need 3 extra grenades since after leaving midgard he has 33 and he buys 36 I believe before shinra, and instead use the shop in one of these towns, effectively costly very little extra time provided you can get an extra 253 gill without spending too much time; possibly less than it takes to get the ether. And the deadly waste, you actually do fight a zenene in the run with A B and R after leaving cloud, you could steal it here costing less than 5 seconds or so, plus maybe more time to equip the steal materia. Then you could skip the bio materia saving 2 seconds, or get it and sell it for 1500 later (as part of skipping the ether), and use deadly waste on the sea monster, which I'd think should save at least 2, maybe 5 attacks including the sea monster's so upwards of 10 seconds saving there, net gain 5 or more seconds.
As I said before, I'm not completely sure why antd needed the other Ether, you can always ask him. Also, are you aware that collecting the Bio materia costs less than a second? Where as for each Deadly Waste item you'd be wasting 5 seconds + the time of the random encounter + time to use it, for something less damaging than a Grenade.

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