Yes, translations can and have affected the way a game behaves. For instance, look at FF3J: the esoteric job bugs used in piro's run no longer work the way they do with the popular translation that's available.
You mean there's more than one?
In that case, how would the TASer and the TAS community are going to choose the best one? Checking at ROMhacking.net?
My first language is not English, so please excuse myself if I write something wrong. I'll do my best do write as cleary as I can, so cope with me here =)
(ﾉಥ益ಥ）ﾉ
After the new Castlevania IV TAS, I think a new reason for using a J over a U-ROM should be added: Less censoring. No one likes things like green blood, especially when you know that the original version didn't had it.
Current project: Gex 3 any%
Paused: Gex 64 any%
There are no N64 emulators. Just SM64 emulators with hacky support for all the other games.
Joined: 11/22/2004
Posts: 1468
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
OmegaWatcher wrote:
Ferret Warlord wrote:
Yes, translations can and have affected the way a game behaves. For instance, look at FF3J: the esoteric job bugs used in piro's run no longer work the way they do with the popular translation that's available.
After the new Castlevania IV TAS, I think a new reason for using a J over a U-ROM should be added: Less censoring. No one likes things like green blood, especially when you know that the original version didn't had it.
This is not exactly new. This issue has been raised previously with games like Bionic Commando; however, while it's by itself a fair "good" reason, in case with BC the U version had changes to gameplay, so no single version was universally preferred in that case as far as I remember.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Wouldn't "less censoring" technically fall under "better graphics"?
First a movie gets submitted, and ends up accepted despite breaking rules other runs have been rejected for. And when I vote less than spectacularly on this movie, I become the victim of harassment and threats.
Yay, favoritism.
Not only graphics get censored, sometimes it can be text or part of the story. In any case the lack of censorship in a J version can be argued as a "good" reason mentioned in the rule wording, and, in case there is nothing better to object to it with, it may become the preferred version from that point, which, I believe, is what has taken place with SCIV.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
I don't recall any bugs or glitches added using fan translations in any of the patched roms I have ever played; Bahamut's Lagoon, Mother 3, Seiken Densetsu 3, FFVI. I just think these should be an exception when it comes to hacked ROMS. I would be all for verifying the integrity of the game to ensure nothing else has been changed other than menus and text before allowing it to be submitted/published. I wouldn't even mind having a disclaimer next to the run that says this is a fan translated hack.
It's not just about the bugs. It's that translated runs, from a source I've read somewhere that I can't find atm, things like rng gets affected due to difference in text speed, menus, and possibly lag. That means you can't compare the hack with the original run. So if a hack were to be published, and the original exist, you can't have them obsolete one another.
I'd be fine with not having it obsoleted. I consider them different games anyways, to me Seiken Densetsu 3 translated is the USA version of the game :).
So what do we need to do to get this into motion? It seems most of us want to see translated roms TAS'd. So now what? What ground rules should we lay down in order for them to be accepted? I'd really like to see this done away with and have them accepted as soon as possible.
I'd be fine with not having it obsoleted. I consider them different games anyways, to me Seiken Densetsu 3 translated is the USA version of the game :).
TASing one game takes alot of effort. If translations were allowed, most likely, noone would bother TASing the original. =/
No offense to Japanese players....but who wants to TAS the original if no one can understand it anyways?
But in a TAS, the point isn't to understand the text. I rather watch a "Let's Play" video to understand the plot than to watch an rpg TAS, as all I can see is text appearing for like 1 second before dissappearing.
Joined: 11/4/2007
Posts: 1772
Location: Australia, Victoria
jlun2 wrote:
Flygon wrote:
Some people can read really really really fast. Like me. :p
.....
Anyway, I thought people who watch TASes watch them for speed/entertainment, not plot. :P
The point of the damn speedrun of the game is to provide entertainment. A plot can be entertaining... and breaking the plot can turn that up to hilarity. :D
It's not just about the bugs. It's that translated runs, from a source I've read somewhere that I can't find atm, things like rng gets affected due to difference in text speed, menus, and possibly lag. That means you can't compare the hack with the original run. So if a hack were to be published, and the original exist, you can't have them obsolete one another.
I still disagree with that post. If you burned the patched ROM to a writable cart, it could still be verifiable on console if a TAS was made for it. Like I said, I can totally understand fan translations not obsoleting original versions and considering the fan translation an entirely new version. It's not unheard of for games to have bug fixes and changes to game play when being made for a different region and I see this as being no different.
Also, as far as playing the game for the plot as opposed to watching a TAS full of text in a language I don't understand so I can't follow along on what skills/items/menus were being used does not entertain me. It's not only the plot, but following along with the methods being employed. A pretty big factor in judging of TAS runs.
Joined: 3/2/2010
Posts: 2178
Location: A little to the left of nowhere (Sweden)
Pasky13 wrote:
If you burned the patched ROM to a writable cart, it could still be verifiable on console if a TAS was made for it.
Translations sometimes use illegal operations that are allowed by emulators through coding mistakes or poor documentation of the console. This means the translation would fail to run on the real console and is therefor impossible to verify.
Joined: 3/2/2010
Posts: 2178
Location: A little to the left of nowhere (Sweden)
Pasky13 wrote:
I see. But doesn't BSnes not allow this?
BSNES is the most accurate emulator around when it comes to SNES, patches that work on BSNES will probably work on a real SNES, patches that don't work might actually still work on a SNES but the chances are really slim.
There are however translations for many more consoles, some which do not have emulators as accurate as SNES. Also BSNES does not have TASing ability so this means an extra playthrough is required to find out if the translation shall be allowed at all. And even then there could be issues that only arise when TASing because a normal playthrough would not trigger such cases.
