1 2
Posted: 7/5/2011 2:30 PM
Post subject: Nomenclature nitpick: "SD"
Quote
sgrunt
He/Him
Emulator Coder, Former player
Joined: 10/28/2007
Posts: 1360
Location: The dark horror in the back of your mind
This has been ongoing for quite some time, but it's finally reached the point where it has aggravated me sufficiently to make a post about it. "SD", or standard definition, refers to any of a variety of resolutions of 480 pixels in height, primarily 640x480 and 720x480. "SD" does not refer to any encode we produce that is of an emulator's native resolution (as opposed to the HD encodes some of our encoders produce for streaming purposes), no matter how many times the term is misused as such. If you are looking for a name to call the class of encodes you're producing for publication purposes, try "downloadable encodes", as that's what they're intended for (possibly also "streaming encodes" for, say, the 512kb), or "primary encodes", as they're the main encode that is provided for publications. That is all.
Posted: 7/5/2011 2:39 PM
Quote
Nach
Emulator Coder
Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
Thanks for making this topic. I too have been annoyed by these meaningless acronyms applied and more importantly, misapplied. I say we have 3 classes of encodes. 1) Normal encodes. 2) Archive.org 512kb encodes. 3) "HD" encodes made for the big streaming sites. I personally don't like the term "HD" either though.
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
Posted: 7/5/2011 2:44 PM
Quote
Warp
Banned User
Joined: 3/10/2004
Posts: 7698
Location: Finland
How about simply using "native resolution" for the encodes where the video resolution is the same as the original console resolution? (Another possibility is "original resolution".) (Of course this becomes complicated with the few games where the resolution actually changes during the gameplay, but those are so few that I don't think it matters much in this.)
Posted: 7/5/2011 2:49 PM
Quote
Nach
Emulator Coder
Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
I accept native as a valid synonym. I don't care which terms you use exactly, as long as they aren't misused, and carry actual meaning. Example of what I mean by meaning: "Is the encode HD?" I have no idea what that statement means, are you referring to a specific resolution? Larger than native resolution? Maximum resolution supported by some software or service? Lossless in terms of colorspace? Filtering applied? Same goes for a term like "HQ".
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
Posted: 7/5/2011 2:51 PM
Quote
sgrunt
He/Him
Emulator Coder, Former player
Joined: 10/28/2007
Posts: 1360
Location: The dark horror in the back of your mind
To be fair, high definition can be used to refer to resolutions larger than the above-defined standard definition - that doesn't make it any less ambiguous, though. As for "HQ" - well, I like to think that all videos we produce are high quality, so it could just as well apply to any video we produce here.
Posted: 7/5/2011 2:56 PM
Quote
Nach
Emulator Coder
Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
I wholeheartedly agree with you Grunt, hence I wish we stop using all these acronyms and just say what we actually mean. Native/standard/normal encode. Archive.org 512kb encode. Encode designed for YouTube/DailyMotion/whatever, which are generally higher resolution encodes than the normal ones due to the re-encoding done. Or on the rare occasion, increased resolution encodes, like we had for various popular N64 games.
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
Posted: 7/5/2011 3:02 PM
Quote
Warp
Banned User
Joined: 3/10/2004
Posts: 7698
Location: Finland
Just throwing some ideas: What if we used terms like "native resolution", "2x" or "double resolution" (in terms of vertical resolution), "4x" or "quadruple resolution" and so on? It could also work if the encoded resolution is not an exact multiple of the original. (Even if the aspect ratio is modified for the encode for some reason, the multiplier could still be that of the vertical resolution only.)
Posted: 7/5/2011 3:03 PM
Quote
Nach
Emulator Coder
Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
Well in those cases you pointed out Warp, I understood precisely what you meant with each one of them, so I have no problem with it. Saying: this is a 2000x1600 encode works too.
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
Posted: 7/5/2011 3:08 PM
Quote
Bisqwit
Editor, Active player (297)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth
In my opinions, terms like "broad band" and "high definition" are marketing hypespeak not unlike "special offer". Their meaning is very subjective and/or relative or abstract. It is why I avoid using them in any case.
Posted: 7/5/2011 3:19 PM
Quote
moozooh
Senior Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5777
Location: Away
Warp wrote:
How about simply using "native resolution" for the encodes where the video resolution is the same as the original console resolution? (Another possibility is "original resolution".)
This, pretty much. There's a plethora of perfectly valid epithets to call it: native resolution, standard resolution, original resolution, normal resolution, etc.. As for the opposite, "high resolution" seems rather obvious, especially since it's factually correct: "high definition" would imply an increase of detail depth compared to the original, which is obviously impossible.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Posted: 7/5/2011 3:35 PM
Quote
Lex
Joined: 6/25/2007
Posts: 732
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
I've always said "enlarged encode to work around lack of proper scaling options in streaming sites' players", but that's rather verbose. "Oversized encode" or "unnecessarily large encode" works for me. Those big encodes have a number of problems associated with them, causing me to dislike their existence.
Posted: 7/5/2011 4:19 PM
Quote
GabCM
He/Him
Joined: 5/5/2009
Posts: 901
Location: QC, Canada
Lex wrote:
I've always said "enlarged encode to work around lack of proper scaling options in streaming sites' players", but that's rather verbose. "Oversized encode" or "unnecessarily large encode" works for me. Those big encodes have a number of problems associated with them, causing me to dislike their existence.
I'd stop making HD encodes (except for N64 3D games) once YouTube (and Dailymotion, as a bonus) supports point-resizing. I hope this happens soon.
Posted: 7/5/2011 6:13 PM
Quote
Warp
Banned User
Joined: 3/10/2004
Posts: 7698
Location: Finland
moozooh wrote:
As for the opposite, "high resolution" seems rather obvious
The only problem is that it only says that the resolution is higher than the original, but not how much. (In fact, "high resolution" gives the impression that the resolution is significantly higher than the original, even though it could well be just eg. double resolution.) I think the "<vertical resolution multiplier>x" could be a good notation. (Another possibility would be, as already noted, to simply explicitly specify the pixel resolution used. However, that doesn't really tell how much larger it is than the original.)
Posted: 7/5/2011 6:25 PM
Quote
Nach
Emulator Coder
Joined: 3/9/2004
Posts: 4588
Location: In his lab studying psychology to find new ways to torture TASers and forumers
Warp wrote:
Another possibility would be, as already noted, to simply explicitly specify the pixel resolution used. However, that doesn't really tell how much larger it is than the original.
Do you really need to know how many times it's larger than the original? Even if you do, it's easy mathematics. The size for any given system/game is already well defined.
Warning: Opinions expressed by Nach or others in this post do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, or position of Nach himself on the matter(s) being discussed therein.
Posted: 7/5/2011 6:44 PM
Quote
moozooh
Senior Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5777
Location: Away
Nach wrote:
Do you really need to know how many times it's larger than the original?
Indeed, this detail is simply unnecessary. Sufficient to know it's higher than normal. Even if it's "just" double, that already gives a significant increase in quality of pixel graphics.
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Posted: 7/5/2011 9:24 PM
Quote
Dada
Joined: 11/22/2004
Posts: 1468
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
The sentiment is appreciated, but I'd much rather type 2 letters as opposed to >2. I realize that "SD" isn't exactly accurate, but it's a convenient retronym to distinguish regular encodes from the ones we put up on Youtube. That's okay, though. There's no reason to use it as "official name" for regular encodes. I'd just much rather use simple, universally understood (by encoders) terms when talking with other encoders on IRC.
Posted: 7/6/2011 3:35 AM
Quote
feos
Site Admin, Skilled player (1254)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11478
Location: Lake Char­gogg­a­gogg­man­chaugg­a­gogg­chau­bun­a­gung­a­maugg
NES TAS of 2011
I double that ^
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Posted: 7/6/2011 5:56 AM
Quote
moozooh
Senior Moderator
Joined: 8/4/2005
Posts: 5777
Location: Away
(It's "I second that", not "I double that"...)
Warp wrote:
Edit: I think I understand now: It's my avatar, isn't it? It makes me look angry.
Posted: 7/6/2011 9:01 AM
Quote
Patashu
He/Him
Joined: 10/2/2005
Posts: 4043
"full resolution" for what is now called sd and "absurd resolution" for what is now called hd?
My Chiptune music, made in Famitracker: http://soundcloud.com/patashu My twitch. I stream mostly shmups & rhythm games http://twitch.tv/patashu My youtube, again shmups and rhythm games and misc stuff: http://youtube.com/user/patashu
Posted: 7/6/2011 3:10 PM
Quote
Derakon
Joined: 7/2/2007
Posts: 3960
Clearly "SD" stands for "super duper" and thus should be used only for encodes of at least 1 gigapixel per frame.
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
Posted: 7/6/2011 3:15 PM
Quote
Flygon
Joined: 11/4/2007
Posts: 1772
Location: Australia, Victoria
Dada wrote:
The sentiment is appreciated, but I'd much rather type 2 letters as opposed to >2. I realize that "SD" isn't exactly accurate, but it's a convenient retronym to distinguish regular encodes from the ones we put up on Youtube. That's okay, though. There's no reason to use it as "official name" for regular encodes. I'd just much rather use simple, universally understood (by encoders) terms when talking with other encoders on IRC.
Agreed. Not much else to add onto this. Sure, it's technically inaccurate, but it's sure as hell an accepted term thrown around by encoders, and everyone knows what it means.
Posted: 7/6/2011 3:27 PM
Quote
sgrunt
He/Him
Emulator Coder, Former player
Joined: 10/28/2007
Posts: 1360
Location: The dark horror in the back of your mind
Re amount of typing: What about "PE" for primary encode, "DE" for downloadable encode...? Yes, everyone knows what SD means - but what it means to a specific person depends greatly on the context. If you talk to an encoder in the wide world of video encoding at large, 99% of them are going to assume you're talking about something with 480 pixels of vertical resolution, as that's the widely accepted definition of the term.
Posted: 7/6/2011 3:29 PM
Quote
Flygon
Joined: 11/4/2007
Posts: 1772
Location: Australia, Victoria
PE gives me nightmares of my Physical Education teacher in High School. I refuse to have TASVideos give me even more work and education related stress.
Posted: 7/6/2011 3:33 PM
Quote
Dada
Joined: 11/22/2004
Posts: 1468
Location: Rotterdam, The Netherlands
I wouldn't mind using another term if it bothers people, but it's just a term. I have the sense not to use it outside of this site because, like you say, our use of these terms goes outside of the accepted definitions. As long as we're aware that the term would be confusing to places other than this community, I think we're fine.
Posted: 7/6/2011 3:37 PM
Quote
feos
Site Admin, Skilled player (1254)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11478
Location: Lake Char­gogg­a­gogg­man­chaugg­a­gogg­chau­bun­a­gung­a­maugg
NES TAS of 2011
Nice, we have million of people not related to TAS any way, and to make them understand what we are talking about HERE, we shall change OUR common acronym to something random unnecessary for the comunity itself.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
1 2