EgxHB, yes I wrote about nice using of death in Megavolt battle.
If you want to make movie with killing that lance duck it's OK, but it can't be call "pacifist".
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11495
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
Since it's already an entertainment-based run, you're free to add a few speed tradeoffs actually.
XYZ wrote:
If you want to make movie with killing that lance duck it's OK, but it can't be call "pacifist".
If he submits it and marks as a "pacifist" branch, it can be called so with no rule violation (as I already stated earlier). If someone doesn't consider it "pacifist", it doesn't mean it's not "pacifist".
EDIT:
I remembered a trick. If you shoot right before grabbing a platform, it allows you to jump off a frame earlier (no need to wait). As long as it doesn't damage enemies, I believe it can be used.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
feos, I rewatched that Castlevania run, you indicated, in which player didn't kill even parts of bosses (snakes, skythes, etc)
Also remember about old Contra "pacifist" movies, during which player kill 2 big tanks, but now they pass using deaths.
Based on this I think 0 killings it is true solution.
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11495
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
XYZ: I only linked it to show that indeed pacifist may include other goals that the author feels like including.
EgxHB: you forgot to turn left to do a ceiling zip here (and jump ASAP too):
I will also check if BushRoot could be manipulated. Do you have a list or RAM addresses?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Is it possible in Megavolt's stage in part of vertical spikes jump over them and takes damage, because it is full health near on the picture above or it take more time?
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11495
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
Right! The published run does it!
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Can player to shoot at enemies that don't die with one shot?
Special case: balloon-bird can be deflated and not be considered dead? I think Yes.
And I think it will still be pacifist version. Just for entertainment.
If you want to make movie with killing that lance duck it's OK, but it can't be call "pacifist".
If someone doesn't consider it "pacifist", it doesn't mean it's not "pacifist".
I believe everyone doesn't consider run with N unnecessary kills as "pacifist".
I sure deep in the heart even feos and EgxHB understand it.
XYZ wrote:
Can player to shoot at enemies that don't die with one shot?
Special case: balloon-bird can be deflated and not be considered dead? I think Yes.
And I think it will still be pacifist version. Just for entertainment.
Actually very good and interesting question!
Guideline is silent about unjustifiable cruelty in Pacifist version, but personally i think to cripple dozens (or even hundreds) innocent enemies is not the best example of pacifistic behavior.
I be glad to hear other opinions or even full discussion about this matter.
I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.
Current projects: NES: Tetris "fastest 999999" (improvement, with r57shell)
Genesis: Adventures of Batman & Robin (with Truncated); Pocahontas; Comix Zone (improvement); Mickey Mania (improvement); RoboCop versus The Terminator (improvement); Gargoyles (with feos)
Once again Contra pacifist TAS, here players shoot in cannon soldiers with shields in level 5, still not victims.
Think it can be used in this game too.
Once again Contra pacifist TAS, here players shoot in cannon soldiers with shields in level 5, still not victims.
Think it can be used in this game too.
What about balloon-bird here, or more globally for other games - about enemies which can get several non-lethal hits? Can they be damaged or not?
If is allowed, it mean that in another game for example you can rape a girl and still get pacifist category (girl must survive). I have a little doubts that can be counted as pacifist.
---
XYZ wrote:
I don't think that these guys in the Contra have the same moral damage, as the girl in your example.
But pacifist rules are equal for all types of damage. That's why i called your question interesting.
---
XYZ wrote:
If it used in one game and published without rejection I think can be tried anythere.
I agree, currently it is not forbidden and can be tried everywhere. But may be worth to forbid unjustifiable cruelty in Pacifist versions until it is too late?
What we will say to parents of this poor little girl from example, if in future such "pacifist" movie will be created and accepted? "According our rules it is ok, she must be happy to being part of pacifist run."
---
XYZ wrote:
I also thought about the enemies with barrels. Destroy the barrels to get the first aid kit will also be considered barbarism and cruelty?
Barbarism - yes of course. But it is still very well pacifist, if nobody injured during barrels explosions.
I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.
Current projects: NES: Tetris "fastest 999999" (improvement, with r57shell)
Genesis: Adventures of Batman & Robin (with Truncated); Pocahontas; Comix Zone (improvement); Mickey Mania (improvement); RoboCop versus The Terminator (improvement); Gargoyles (with feos)
If is allowed, it mean that in another game for example you can rape a girl and still get pacifist category (girl must survive). I have a little doubts that can be counted as pacifist.
I don't think that these guys in the Contra have the same moral damage, as the girl in your example.
Archanfel wrote:
But pacifist rules are equal for all types of damage.
If it used in one game and published without rejection I think can be tried everywhere.
I also thought about the enemies with barrels. Destroy the barrels to get the first aid kit will also be considered barbarism and cruelty?
So it seems to me that the best possible outcome is to salvage both pacifist and no sub-weapons, since I think most viewers were pretty impressed up to the point of that one enemy at the end getting shot.
To start with, are there any theories about how this might be possible at all? (personally I just like the challenge)
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11495
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
MESHUGGAH: can you explain that improvement?
PS: uploaded the movie with comments.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Published TAS F1539, they sacrificed 2px to jump over the green monster and have feasible position aftewards. If you manipulate DW's subpos (0x460 I guess), you can step 1px left before taking damage from the first bullet, changing the X speed pattern to get the arrow and sacrifice 1px right before the green monster (F1588)
PhD in TASing 🎓 speedrun enthusiast ❤🚷🔥 white hat hacker ▓ black box tester ░ censorships and rules...
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11495
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
Moved to SourceForge, saved 2 more frames in level 1.
https://sourceforge.net/p/feos-tas/code/860/tree/trunk/TAS%20WIPs/DarkwingDuckPacifist-compact.fm3?format=raw
Subpixel manipulation doesn't do much aside from some tricks, but the lag picture I was getting at that climbing up part killed any speedups, so it was left untouched. Improved dodging the green tossers, saved improvements through the boss fight, which was simplified unexpectedly.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
feos, all this things are very good in frame-perfect planing and so, but what about the most important question. What are you plan to do with so-named "unavoidable" victim in last level?
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11495
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
As was obvious after the submission, it needs a single use of arrow to allow the more important category to stay solid. "Pacifist" is first, "no subweapons" is second, and that second will be bended.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11495
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
Didn't think of level order. And no, I wasn't going to harm enemies at all.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Barrels are not enemies) Destroing for first aid kit, but I think this can be avoid with right using of damage taking and arrow roof skip in last level.
I will also check if BushRoot could be manipulated. Do you have a list or RAM addresses?
