But I can't control 2 players same that, still training TASEditor, still newbie :(
Just assign the 2nd gamepad (in the input menu) before starting Tas Editor, there will be 2 sets of button, the rest of the process is exactly the same as tasing for 1 person
I'm trying it, but I have a problem, that's control luck for item after kill special tank. The item is random depend something 1 frame after it killed. Example, when I try get star item from it, with alot way, P1 kill it and have star item, but when I change to P2 for control (I mean back before kill it), then that item have change to other item. Omg...
Have any ideas for me ?
I'm trying it, but I have a problem, that's control luck for item after kill special tank. The item is random depend something 1 frame after it killed. Example, when I try get star item from it, with alot way, P1 kill it and have star item, but when I change to P2 for control (I mean back before kill it), then that item have change to other item. Omg...
Have any ideas for me ?
Never give up. TASing is never easy. Unless of course, you're simply using tools to beat the game. Otherwise, an optimized TAS takes alot of patience and time; hence why you don't see a "TAS of the year" popping up every day or so.
I'm trying it, but I have a problem, that's control luck for item after kill special tank. The item is random depend something 1 frame after it killed. Example, when I try get star item from it, with alot way, P1 kill it and have star item, but when I change to P2 for control (I mean back before kill it), then that item have change to other item. Omg...
Have any ideas for me ?
List of ideas ordered in "easiest to do generally" to "hardest to do generally"1. Trial and error: The easiest way is changing different buttons until you get the star item. This can be done by first making the path of the 2 tanks (planning the route) and when you are done, you luck manipulate the proper items through the way. This is actually a good choice for beginners because sometimes games/RNG desyncs and you can even find improvements while "starting" the level again for manipulating thoseitems.
2. Learn the RNG mechanics: You don't need the source code or debug to understand how should the game work. All you need to do is to observe what factors do the RNG have. Is it depends on timing (frame time or CPU time)? Is it depnds on various buttons (specific or all buttons for all players)? Is it depends on a memory value (is it possible to change it indirectly by doing the mentioned actions)?
3. Debug the game: I learned the NES assembly for the sole purpose to find RNG for my very first TAS project when I was a "total noob" too. Maybe the only difference that I knew programming so I just had to learn a different language. But it's a really good think because I assume you will want to play other games too, so learning this once will help you in your future projects. And it's easier to understand the game rather than trial and error for years especially for simple things like item manipulating.
I would advise you to read step 1 from Wiki: AdvancedLuckManipulation and continue your way where you feel the most comfortably.
PhD in TASing 🎓 speedrun enthusiast ❤🚷🔥 white hat hacker ▓ black box tester ░ censorships and rules...
Just assign the 2nd gamepad (in the input menu) before starting Tas Editor, there will be 2 sets of button, the rest of the process is exactly the same as tasing for 1 person
It's easier to just select "2 players" when creating a new project (File->New).
xxNKxx wrote:
Example, when I try get star item from it, with alot way, P1 kill it and have star item, but when I change to P2 for control (I mean back before kill it), then that item have change to other item.
Tell me, how do you "change to P2 for control"? Do you control players by joypad instead of using mouse?
MESHUGGAH wrote:
I would advise you to read step 1 from Wiki: AdvancedLuckManipulation and continue your way where you feel the most comfortably.
I've debugged the game very extensively (a long ago), and I suggest to use only the trial-and-error method.
Get_Random_A: ; CODE XREF: ROM:DC8C ROM:DD17
; ROM:Get_RandomStatusp ROM:DD4F
; Load_AI_Status:Load_AIStatus_GetRandom
; Get_RandomDirection+12
; Make_Enemy_Shot+F
; Bonus_Appear_Handle:-
; Bonus_Appear_Handle+F
; Bonus_Appear_Handle+28
TXA
PHA
LDA Random_Lo
ASL A
ASL A
ASL A
SEC
SBC Random_Lo
CLC
ADC Seconds_Counter
INC Random_Hi
LDX Random_Hi
ADC Temp,X ; any byte from Zero Page!
STA Random_Lo
PLA
TAX
LDA Random_Lo
RTS
See, the RNG in Battle City uses very special technique of applying the value of any byte from Zero Page RAM to the calculations. So the generated value really depends on everything - on players/enemies/bullets coordinates and properties, on score/hi-score, on various timers and pointers, current music and sound channels, previous bonuses, changes applied to level map, temporary variables remaining from old calculations, etc.
As a result, we get an RNG that is extremely hard to predict, so don't bother planning it ahead, just use trial-and-error to get "good enough" luck. Of course, the more time you spend on the trial-and-error manipulations, the better luck you'll get, but with such an RNG you can never be sure you've got perfect luck.
Hi all !
First, I need to say, I'm just a gamer, not a progam or coder, then I can't understand what's debug/reverse/assembly/etc
I'm just a gamer, I have played alot games on NES/SNES/PSX/PS2/PS3/Arcade/etc (but not professional). I'm just watched TAS videos and I loved it, then I want try come to TAS.
With a gamer for game control with emulators, save load is only best way. I'm just know TASEditor few days ago and now I'm still training it (on fceux only, BizHawk is too hard for me understand it).If emulators have any way can make easy for use then I think it's will easy more than for original gamers. I want make many games but I can't make perfect way, too many things hard rock for me can understand it. That's why I have start with what easiest for me
Back to my problem in Battle City, in my said. The items depend something after 1 frame when it got killed. Example: if P1 have killed special tank, after 1 frame, if P1 have inpud Up key then I'll have star item, else if P1 have inpud Down key then I'll have other item. With P2 too, with P2 everything changed after 1 frame it got killed, it will change item. I have crazy with it. Because I need exactly item and I need where the item appearance too
This's not hard in frames control, it's hard in luck control.Please try it in few stages then maybe you'll understand what I mean.
I'm just using TASEditor for control 2 players in same time
See, the RNG in Battle City uses very special technique of applying the value of any byte from Zero Page RAM to the calculations. So the generated value really depends on everything - on players/enemies/bullets coordinates and properties, on score/hi-score, on various timers and pointers, current music and sound channels, previous bonuses, changes applied to level map, temporary variables remaining from old calculations, etc.
There's no such word, stop using it.
xxNKxx wrote:
Back to my problem in Battle City, in my said. The items depend something after 1 frame when it got killed. Example: if P1 have killed special tank, after 1 frame, if P1 have inpud Up key then I'll have star item, else if P1 have inpud Down key then I'll have other item. With P2 too, with P2 everything changed after 1 frame it got killed, it will change item.
Why are you controlling P2 separately from P1? In TAS Editor you can create buttons Input for both P1+P2 simultaneously.
xxNKxx wrote:
This's not hard in frames control, it's hard in luck control.Please try it in few stages then maybe you'll understand what I mean.
Everyone understands what you mean, but you don't seem to understand how games work.
Luck (item) depends on actions of both players, so you must manipulate the luck by controlling both players, not just by controlling P1.
xxNKxx wrote:
I'm just using TASEditor for control 2 players in same time
You did not answer my question: how do you control players? Are you using mouse?
xxNKxx wrote:
If like you said, then I need Jesus come here :)
No, you only need some patience and determination.
I need the good tactic for best run
We knowed, in every stage only have 3 special tank = 3 items only. If I take 3 grenades, then I'll slower for shoot to walls and enemies. If I take 3 stars then I will slower a little for speed run, if 2 playes have 3 stars then slow more than
Ok, try watch the example video on upper, then could someone please tell me what best tactic for best run?
Hi all !
First, I need to say, I'm just a gamer, not a progam or coder, then I can't understand what's debug/reverse/assembly/etc
I'm just a gamer, I have played alot games on NES/SNES/PSX/PS2/PS3/Arcade/etc (but not professional). I'm just watched TAS videos and I loved it, then I want try come to TAS.
With a gamer for game control with emulators, save load is only best way. I'm just know TASEditor few days ago and now I'm still training it (on fceux only, BizHawk is too hard for me understand it).If emulators have any way can make easy for use then I think it's will easy more than for original gamers. I want make many games but I can't make perfect way, too many things hard rock for me can understand it. That's why I have start with what easiest for me
Back to my problem in Battle City, in my said. The items depend something after 1 frame when it got killed. Example: if P1 have killed special tank, after 1 frame, if P1 have inpud Up key then I'll have star item, else if P1 have inpud Down key then I'll have other item. With P2 too, with P2 everything changed after 1 frame it got killed, it will change item. I have crazy with it. Because I need exactly item and I need where the item appearance too
This's not hard in frames control, it's hard in luck control.Please try it in few stages then maybe you'll understand what I mean.
I'm just using TASEditor for control 2 players in same time
Well, I'm not a programmer/coder either, but I managed to do runs like this without any knowledge of the address for the RNG simply because of trail and error. I don't give up on a task. I might take a (long) break, but I come back and try each time.
Ok, try watch the example video on upper, then could someone please tell me what best tactic for best run?
Think up the items tactic by yourself. It is really simple in this game.
xxNKxx wrote:
AnS wrote:
You did not answer my question: how do you control players? Are you using mouse?
Yes, mouse, like a noob :(
Actually, editing with mouse is better than rerecording, so you're good. I guess you only need a lot of experience, so don't complain and just spend more time TASing.
Try to make a Battle City TAS that is faster than the example video.
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11475
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
Or let it work this way:
You record one stage just as you can. Then return to its start and redo things that you suspect to be slower. You will see which is better to do for that whole stage. After you finish it twice, calculate all advantages and differences and try to apply even more improvements. The more you redo a segment, the better it becomes. Just make sure to find out strategic differences.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
I did it I did it woo woo woooooo :D
Here's my preview 3 stages:
http://youtu.be/zzAFoQoUhak
Compare with expam video:
- Stage 35 faster 6 frames
- Stage 1 faster 14 frames
- Stage 2 slower 200 frames
Then I think make grenades will slow more than. Someome please help me calculator it
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11475
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
OH WOW. The third level is a definite Star material to me! Do more stuff like that, invent all kinds of possible chaos!
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11475
Location: Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchaubunagungamaugg
Mass kills are so fun you can even include it as a speed/entertainment tradeoff, since having so much action will most likely get enjoyed and go to Moons.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
In this morning I tried alot way for improve speed, but I think grenades make enemies respawn time to slow down
Here's preview my other test with 2 grenades killed 5 enemies and 1 killed 6. Slower with example video only have 136 frames: http://youtu.be/v4q758xQuK4
If you want try it, here's my movie file (fceux 2.2.1) : http://www.mediafire.com/?dtrw0dbm9u3yqh9
With you, what way look for cool in my run?
In this morning I tried alot way for improve speed, but I think grenades make enemies respawn time to slow down
Here's preview my other test with 2 grenades killed 5 enemies and 1 killed 6. Slower with example video only have 136 frames: http://youtu.be/v4q758xQuK4
If you want try it, here's my movie file (fceux 2.2.1) : http://www.mediafire.com/?dtrw0dbm9u3yqh9
With you, what way look for cool in my run?
I think it's possible that you didn't optimize the grenades. Did you try this?
1. blinking tank appears
2. Kill blinking tank
3. Grenade appears
4. Go infront of grenade
5. Next tank appears
6. Grab grenade
Btw, you have 2 players, so it's alot simpler to manipulate the grenade to appear at the first hit. Just fidget the 2nd player around and use the first tank to kill the blinking tank.
Edit: In case you don't know what I mean, the drops are determined by input of both players.
I think it's possible that you didn't optimize the grenades. Did you try this?
1. blinking tank appears
2. Kill blinking tank
3. Grenade appears
4. Go infront of grenade
5. Next tank appears
6. Grab grenade
.
Omg, I did it many times. You can use my movie file for check it. I have kill the special tank at first then I wait until 6 tanks appear then I take grenade. I have catch exactly in per frame. You can test in my movie file, can't soon anymore.
You can watch this my preview video: http://youtu.be/zzAFoQoUhak . In stage 37, still slower with example video. At the end battle, slower around 200 frames, but if battle + calculator scores time I have slower 120 frames only (because grenade kills scores have saved few time for me)
I think the problem at respawn enemies time. In my preview video on upper you'll see I must wait it long time after use last grenade...
I can make the run faster example video with other way, but can't use grenades and show cool moves. That's why I got headache with stage 37 and stages in feature
Here's my preview try make fastest in stage 37 I can do, but I think look it very poor :(. (in battle faster 4 frames with example video and will faster when calcutor scores because I have grenade kills): http://youtu.be/wMb5sxMNlAc
Could someone please tell me what way best for a cool TAS in this game? I don't know... :(
