Post subject: Perfection
Editor, Active player (297)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth
Ps: Perfection is not easy. Yes, using the below-mentioned tools makes playing easy - but we're not just playing here. We're attempting to perfect the games to godly level of precision - which involves handling the game like if it was The Matrix - observing every slightest detail of it to gain control of it in ways that the makers never realized. We're searching for perfection. To reach that goal, using the "cheats" provided by an emulator is irrelevant, as long as the "world" - the game - is unmodified.
This is what I added to the why / how page today. Any comments?
Arc
Editor, Experienced player (814)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 534
Location: Arizona
I think maybe cheating should be defined. Cheating in the gaming sense, means to violate the rules of the game, i.e. using invincibility, giving items at the start, etc, so it's not cheating in that sense, because it is theoretically possible to do what is done in time attack videos by a human without slowdowns or save states. If a human completed a speed run that looked exactly like a time attack, then it would not be called cheating, thus the actions within the game are not cheats in time attacks either. Outside of the game (making videos), cheating would be deception/fraud, i.e. claiming a Time Attack as a real record. But Time Attacks are clearly defined so that they are not deceptive, but explained as artistic works made for entertainment, thus this is not cheating either. Agree/Disagree
Editor, Active player (297)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth
So how do you suggest the text be changed?
Arc
Editor, Experienced player (814)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 534
Location: Arizona
Maybe under myths where it discusses hacks.
Former player
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 152
Location: Australia
You're right...
G1MM3 4 BR34|C!
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 185
Location: Denmark
"The "cheats" of an emulator" - i might consider changing that to "features", since you will most likely write how the emulators weren't used to cheat. You might also want a clear indication wether a movie on the site is a time attack or a pure speedrun, to keep the confusion away... Perhaps even post both a timeattack and a speedrun where applicable.
"We observe the behaviour of simple folk, and derive pleasure from their defects." -Aristotle - Book of Humour
Editor, Active player (297)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth
I'm only publishing one type of movies.
Former player
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 706
people go to their assumptions when they don't understand how these videos were done. They claim they aren't legit but i have yet to hear any of them tell us to stop making time attacks all together. I've seen on some forums that people read your purpose section on the site and misinterpret it as a "confession" that these videos are nothing but tricks. Their ignorance never ends...
Former player
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 1107
Maybe Bisqwit can add a section called the anti ignorant person section where he just makes fun of ignorant people and gives lots of reasons why their arguments make no sense at all :D .
Former player
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 152
Location: Australia
Someone told me once that he wish us to stop making these videos, which are nothing but a trick, because he has a friend who makes legit videos, without saves/loads, etc; and nobody would see his friend legit videos because ours opaque his. This was funny for me, if some people want us to stop making videos why do these same people watch them yet, that is what i don't understand.
G1MM3 4 BR34|C!
Editor, Active player (297)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth
We're not really breaking anyone's records. Anyone's playing feats don't become less impressive because of our videos. We may be taking audience, but referring to that point is just jealousy.
Banned User
Joined: 3/10/2004
Posts: 7698
Location: Finland
MahaTmA wrote:
"The "cheats" of an emulator" - i might consider changing that to "features", since you will most likely write how the emulators weren't used to cheat. You might also want a clear indication wether a movie on the site is a time attack or a pure speedrun, to keep the confusion away... Perhaps even post both a timeattack and a speedrun where applicable.
I suppose that what you call a speedrun is eg. what the Quake done Quick demos are, and a time attack is something which uses emulator "features" to boost up the playing capabilities of the player. I agree that the distinction between these two might need to be specified. The Quake done Quick speedruns have very strict principles on how they can be made: The only aid they can use is that they can record each level separately and then join them into a single run through the game (but they must start the next level with the same stats as the previous one ended). About everything else is forbidden. This means that what you see is exactly what the player did in real-time, without using any kind of aiding tools or "cheats". Each level has been played completely from start to end in one contiguous run in real-time. The NES time attacks are much looser in their requirements: The only requirement is that the game rom must be the original unmodified one and that the video is made as an fmv file (which contains basically just timed keypresses) or anything equivalent. It's completely ok to use the emulator features to make the play better, like quicksaves, emulator slowdown, autofire, etc. Since we are not trying to impress people with our skills but with an awesome perfect run, this is completely ok. Perhaps Bisqwit could write something similar to the above somewhere in the nesvideos FAQ or whatever...
Post subject: Re: distinction
Editor, Active player (297)
Joined: 3/8/2004
Posts: 7469
Location: Arzareth
Thanks Warp, I think I now understood what MahatmA meant.. I'll think of that.