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Posted: 8/26/2004 3:17 AM
Post subject: Existential Nihilism
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flagitious
Player (201)
Joined: 7/6/2004
Posts: 511
I am just curious, who here is an existential nihilist? I am starting to think it is true but I will have to think more to be sure.
g,o,p,i=1e4,a[10001];main(x){for(;p?g=g/x*p+a[p]*i+2*!o: 53^(printf("%.4d",o+g/i),p=i,o=g%i);a[p--]=g%x)x=p*2-1;}
Posted: 8/26/2004 3:42 AM
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Bob_Whoops
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Joined: 3/19/2004
Posts: 710
Location: USA
existentialist? yes nihilist? no way Only crazy people are nihilists. Sure Nietzche was interesting to read, but he was crazy as well. I happen to be agnostic.
Posted: 8/26/2004 4:25 AM
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VirtualAlex
Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 464
Location: Minnesota
I have heard this before but I am drawing a blank... Give me some definitions or clearifications will you?
JXQ's biggest fan.
Posted: 8/26/2004 3:24 PM
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air__devil
Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 162
existential nihilism is basically observable nothingness. its hard for me to describe in a forum base. I'm use to writing essays on the subject. Your best bet is to look it up on the wikipedia. http://en.wikipedia.org Basically, its that the world is as it appears. yet that appearance leads to a meaningless existence. I am most certainly not a nihilist. Existentialist maybe. More of an empiricist though. Empiricism in case you are wondering is that anything observable is testable. Because I can see how atoms combine to form molecules I can indeed test that 2 hydrogens an combine with 1 oxygen to form the molecule of water. As an aside, I'm wondering why this was brought up in the forums. flagitious, why do you believe this is true? I'm curious. Thanks! -Ev
Love, Ev
Posted: 8/26/2004 7:09 PM
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VirtualAlex
Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 464
Location: Minnesota
So what does it mean to be a Nihilist and what does it mean to be an exostensialist? If you can be one and not the other, then they must mean different things.
JXQ's biggest fan.
Posted: 8/26/2004 7:11 PM
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Truncated
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>Because I can see how atoms combine to form molecules I can indeed test that 2 hydrogens an combine with 1 oxygen to form the molecule of water. Well, you can't really. :) There are no optical microscopes that good, and electron microscopes are not very good at showing motion. There are good reasons other than directly seeing for believing 2H + O = water (or rather, 2*H2 + O2 = H2O + energy, since oxygen almost always comes in pairs). Says me, who is also a science nerd.
Posted: 8/26/2004 7:22 PM
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Boco
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Joined: 3/30/2004
Posts: 1354
Location: Heather's imagination
Nihilism is the belief that the world (or, alternatively, intelligent life) has no intrinsic meaning or value. Nihilism also rejects objective knowledge and truth, which differentiates it from the more optimistic postmodernism. Existentialism is the belief that there is no such thing as human nature or objective value, and in some philosophies the rejection of objective reality itself. Existentialists instead project their own values into life, in essence creating a meaning where none before existed.
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster. I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
Posted: 8/26/2004 8:03 PM
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VirtualAlex
Joined: 5/31/2004
Posts: 464
Location: Minnesota
thanks Boco
JXQ's biggest fan.
Posted: 8/26/2004 9:37 PM
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nesrocks
He/Him
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Joined: 5/1/2004
Posts: 4096
Location: Rio, Brazil
i believe our souls are connected to the body while we are living. the souls have inteligence but while we are alive it's inteligence is limited to the bodies' limits (such as brain connections, quality of blood running through it, etc). and limited also by obvious cultural influences.
aka Nesrocks http://www.youtube.com/user/UoBtExFODA https://nesrocks.com https://twitter.com/bitinkstudios
Posted: 8/27/2004 4:58 AM
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air__devil
Joined: 8/1/2004
Posts: 162
Truncated: I tried to come up with something easy to explain it with. I guess I over shot it! But it still makes it a little more clear ya know? -Ev
Love, Ev
Posted: 8/27/2004 4:21 PM
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flagitious
Player (201)
Joined: 7/6/2004
Posts: 511
The reason I posted here is because in this community it seems most people are very intelligent and logical. So it would be benificial to hear your thinking too. The definition I am going by is here: http://www.iep.utm.edu/n/nihilism.htm#Existential%20Nihilism. Basically means that you believe life, the world, everything is pointless. It is only recently that I have considered it. Here is my reasononing so far, I have more thinking to do. Suppose that you think a certain action is a good or evil one. The reason it is good or evil is because it works for or against some higher up goal or state. The reason that higher up goal or state is good or evil is because it too works for or against some higher goal or state. You can repeat this over and over until you reach a goal or state that has no reason. It would be good or evil just because. So basically there would be no logical reason why this master goal is actually good. It is still possible that something can still be good, just there would be no way to discover it using logic. Good and evil is a concept that we invented just like god and many other things. BTW I don't think it matters wether or not god exists for this logic. Because if something is good if it "pleases" god, then why is "pleasing" god good? So basically I think good and evil is something that we made up and most likely does not really exist. I cannot prove that it doesn't exist yet though. But consider this, there are infinitly many concepts that we can invent that could be possible, but yet not be true. So why should we give any of them a chance? But then again why not? So if there is no such thing as good and evil then all the possible actions we can take are neutral and thus pointless. Well it is hard for me to communicate my thoughts and I am not much of a writer, but I hope this is clear and I would especially like to hear if any of the logic is flawed, as well as your opinions.
g,o,p,i=1e4,a[10001];main(x){for(;p?g=g/x*p+a[p]*i+2*!o: 53^(printf("%.4d",o+g/i),p=i,o=g%i);a[p--]=g%x)x=p*2-1;}
Posted: 8/27/2004 5:12 PM
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Boco
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Joined: 3/30/2004
Posts: 1354
Location: Heather's imagination
I reject this philosophy because I recognise a very specific purpose for the current mode of existance as a link in the continuous creation process ordained by God. I agree that there is no objective good or evil. I disagree that there is no god, and that pleasing or serving God is not a worthwhile end to itself. God may have created both good and evil (or what we know as them) for his own purposes, but that does not mean it's just as beneficial to be at odds with his will.
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster. I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
Posted: 8/27/2004 5:30 PM
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Bob_Whoops
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Joined: 3/19/2004
Posts: 710
Location: USA
Boco :I am not saying that you are wrong, but if you believe in a god and he does not, using it as an argument is not going to make him think any differently. Anyway, you are right that evil and good are not very well defined. It is totally relative, and differs from person to person. But even though your actions may be neither good nor evil, they still leave an impact. A lack of good or evil does not make the world pointless. Just because a concept can not be proven does not make it meaningless. Why does everything have to server some higher purpose? Sorry if that makes no sense. Not much of a philosopher :/
Posted: 8/27/2004 5:51 PM
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flagitious
Player (201)
Joined: 7/6/2004
Posts: 511
Well using God is fine, I do not know if God exist and I have not thought much about God. So I will consider both possibilities. Boco, what is the point in pleasing God? I would guess that it is something you have to just say that is the way it is. And like I said before having no reason, doesn't mean it is false. Bob Whoops, our actions may infact may change things, but if it is neither a good way or a bad way why does it matter? Our actions indeed do not have to serve a higher purpose, that is what I am trying to prove.
g,o,p,i=1e4,a[10001];main(x){for(;p?g=g/x*p+a[p]*i+2*!o: 53^(printf("%.4d",o+g/i),p=i,o=g%i);a[p--]=g%x)x=p*2-1;}
Posted: 8/27/2004 6:41 PM
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Bob_Whoops
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Joined: 3/19/2004
Posts: 710
Location: USA
Well if you believe that every thing must server a higher purpose to matter, well then yes, most everything is pointless.
Posted: 8/28/2004 2:39 AM
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Josh_the_FunkDOC
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Joined: 3/13/2004
Posts: 706
Location: Elyria/Oberlin, OH
Bob Whoops wrote:
Well if you believe that every thing must server a higher purpose to matter, well then yes, most everything is pointless.
You, sir, have just summed up the exact problem I have been having as of late. Guess I must search for a way to value things in and of themselves, then...
but then you take my 75 perchance chance of winning, if we was to go one-on-one, and then add 66 and two-thirds ch...percents...i got a 141 and two-thirds chance of winning at sacrifice
Posted: 8/28/2004 4:37 AM
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Bob_Whoops
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Joined: 3/19/2004
Posts: 710
Location: USA
Heh. The only reasons I'm not a nihilist is becase one, I do not think that there is not a god. I just think that there's no way to find out, and I'm not going to live my life on blind faith(not that people who this are wrong) and two, I think I would go crazy thinking like that. :) I try ignoring the fact of whether what I am doing ultimatly has some higher purpose. Instead, I live my life following my own views of good and evil(as flawed as they may be)
Posted: 8/28/2004 6:44 AM
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Boco
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Joined: 3/30/2004
Posts: 1354
Location: Heather's imagination
Anyway, Qohelet answers all the arguements for nihilism and hedonism and other philosophies in a way that satisfies me, so I read that every once in a while. It's my favorite book, actually.
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster. I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
Posted: 8/31/2004 9:42 PM
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Ramzi
Joined: 3/25/2004
Posts: 459
Bob Whoops: If you decide that you *can't* know if there's a God or not, I would say that you're agnostic rather than nihilistic. Nihilism is not pleasant. So long as you believe in an objective reality, trust your senses, and believe in science, I don't think you'd be considered a nihilist.
Posted: 8/31/2004 9:45 PM
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Bob_Whoops
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Joined: 3/19/2004
Posts: 710
Location: USA
-_- I know.
Bob Whoops wrote:
I happen to be agnostic.
Posted: 8/31/2004 11:26 PM
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feitclub
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Joined: 3/13/2004
Posts: 1118
Location: Kansai, JAPAN
I consider myself an athiest in that I do not believe God is "real" in the same sense that I am real. But I acknowledge that because God means different things to different people, it is foolish to pretend that God does not "exist." I don't know if that makes any sense, but it boils down to a "don't fuck with other people" philosophy: If you believe something that I don't, great. But if you tell me I'm wrong, go fuck yourself.
Do Not Talk About Feitclub http://www.feitclub.com
Posted: 8/31/2004 11:49 PM
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Bob_Whoops
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Joined: 3/19/2004
Posts: 710
Location: USA
I couldn't agree with more with your second paragraph. I'm pretty much acceptant of all ways of thoughts, religions, etc...(unless it involves killing people or something), as long as they keep it to themself. But when they start preaching to me, thats when I get pissed off.
Posted: 9/1/2004 4:35 AM
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flagitious
Player (201)
Joined: 7/6/2004
Posts: 511
after thinking some more i have come up with another theory. first i did not prove nihilism was true even though i thought it probably was true. second we are people and we do make mistakes and fail to realize some complicated things. thus we should try to maximize intelligence to better figure out a purpose or be more sure of nihilism etc. i am not talking about just making yourself intelligent, but working to maximize intelligence of everyone as whole, there are billions of people in the world and a billion minds are better than one at solving a problem. this goal may lead to developing artificial intelligence in hopes that it can be much more intelligent than us. but i believe this is a long term goal and it is very important to try to know yourself and know how to improve now. as well as teaching others skills like critical thinking and possibly even theories like this although that is sortof like a religion then (recruiting). i am very bad at teaching others and communicating so this is unfortunate because it appears good to teach doh. i am sorry this is not well written and alll but i am a little under the influence despite how unintelligent it is, i know im bad at following my beliefs. it is funny how your philosophies tend to shift with the way you are feeling and the logic is just conviently fits sortof.
g,o,p,i=1e4,a[10001];main(x){for(;p?g=g/x*p+a[p]*i+2*!o: 53^(printf("%.4d",o+g/i),p=i,o=g%i);a[p--]=g%x)x=p*2-1;}
Posted: 9/1/2004 5:18 AM
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Boco
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Joined: 3/30/2004
Posts: 1354
Location: Heather's imagination
flagitious wrote:
thus we should try to maximize intelligence to better figure out a purpose or be more sure of nihilism etc. i am not talking about just making yourself intelligent, but working to maximize intelligence of everyone as whole, there are billions of people in the world and a billion minds are better than one at solving a problem.
Qohelet wrote:
1:17 So I decided to discern the benefit of wisdom and knowledge over foolish behavior and ideas; however, I concluded that even this endeavor is like trying to chase the wind! 1:18 For with great wisdom comes great frustration; whoever increases his knowledge merely increases his heartache.
someone is out there who will like you. take off your mask so they can find you faster. I support the new Nekketsu Kouha Kunio-kun.
Posted: 9/1/2004 10:05 AM
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Viewer
Joined: 6/4/2004
Posts: 284
"Qohelet"...are you, by any chance, Hebrew, Boco?
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