Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Former player
Joined: 3/8/2004
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thanks for the tip. I finished all my exams this week so I have a lot of time to practice. If I can do the later levels confidently, memorize a decent route, and fine-tune my reflexes, I'll do a speedrun of the whole game. It looks like it's going to take a lot of commitment though, and will probably be the hardest (and longest) speedrun I've ever attempted.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Former player
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been practising some more, I didn't realize the importance of randomness in this game until now. I played level 2 a few more times today, and I was able to get it as low as 2:04 from first control to triforce. Right now, I'm working on the later dungeons optimizing the time it takes me to handle those darknuts and wizzrobes. If you want to see the video, I have it here: Legend of Zelda: level 2.
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I can play almost that well without save states.
are you still considering doing a pure speedrun of the 1st quest? I've been playing around lately with LoZ a bit, I can get around 2:10 from power on to dungeon 2 triforce, still working on my fighting to improve the time; I'll need to practice the later dungeons more as well, not sure if I'll give the whole game a try, but I really admire the challenge.
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What if you record from a real NES, would that be illegal as well? From the avi alone it is difficult to tell sometimes whether the recording is from an emulator+rom or the actual system.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Former player
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I'm sure you can do it, you seem to be very knowledgeable at LoZ. I had the same problem when doing my punch-out speed run. I kept the emulator at 100%, and I estimate I lost a few seconds due to the reaction time. I'm not sure whether I beat the world record or not since twin galaxies only has times for the mike tyson fight. The world record for that fight is 2:35, only 17 time units faster than my run which spanned on the whole game. But I can beat that easily :P. Michael, I think we should beat the TG records and prove to the speedrun world what time attack players are truly capable of. I'd like to see the look on their faces when we "cheaters" beat their precious records. :)
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Either way the video looks impressive; i don't think redoing world 8 for a coin block and turtle is worth it. You might find a way to improve your time in the future and have to redo the run anyway. :P
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I contacted the creator of Virtuanes and asked him about making vmvs compatible with newer versions but he said he can't guarantee it. I also asked him about making a version that works on linux and I got the following response:
"I want to try to make a Linux(*nix) version. But a promise to be completed isn't finished."
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Former player
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i played kung fu on arcade game and on emulator and i noticed SEVERAL BS on this video.
To clear things up for you, take these facts into consideration:
-we didn't walk through enemies, they were either jumped over, killed quickly, or shaken off before their grab attack could do damage.
-Whether the bosses can be killed easily is part of the mechanics of the game. it is not something we can modify but it's something of which we can take advantage. In this case, your problem is with the game itself and not the videos of it.
-No boss was killed in one hit; the fewest was in two hits from the flying kick, the strongest attack in the game.
-The arcade version is different than the nes version. Maybe you used an arcade emulator? If you really knew the Nes version of the game well enough, you wouldn't be making these empty accusations.
-You can duplicate anything done in this video in real time. I could easily make a speed run of this game to prove it.
-You should go play a few levels of the Nes Kung Fu before running your mouth.
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keep it the way it is, this is the time attack i'm most excited to see, mainly because it was so dilligently worked on (just look at the size of this thread!). So many of our movies probably have little mistakes like that, but they simply haven't been pointed out yet. I'm with Ramzi on this one, only redo the levels if you find a faster route in the future. Perfection happens over time.
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Which video? Mine or Mike Hardisons? The techsmith codec was used in his video and it comes with an automatic installer. The codec I used in my videos was Xvid.
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will only work for a few games though, because in many games each button press doesn't necessarily equal an action on the screen. For example, you can press B a hundred times in a row but your character may only jump once. Less isn't always better, more actions in the game may make it more entertaining. Only sure way to tell good from bad is to compare movies by watching them; any redundant actions are obvious to the viewer anyway.
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I think motive and goal can be conflating at times, and although the goals may seem the same, it is more the methods of reaching them that has spurred such debate. Whether a game was beaten in X number of minutes through a time attack or a speed run shouldn't matter since the end product is the same. Many forget time attacks are the product of human ingenuity; we are in fact playing the game, and are not simply programming keystrokes. Emulators have given us the advantage to produce in a matter of hours what could possibly take an average player a lifetime to accomplish. Why not use the technology to accomplish more than was possible before? Personal pride, hero worship, and the craving for the loosely defined "authentic play" have become nothing but barriers. Both sides will eventually agree on something, but it will take time since the time attack concept has just very recently reached this level of popularity.
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I am very pleased working with other the time attack players. We don't get angered if someone beats our record, it's not a matter of pride here; we're just trying to get it perfect. In speed runs the attention is placed on who is more skillful and the credit is centered on the player. We credit the movies, and not as much the author in time attacks since each new version almost always builds directly on previous ones. So in the end, if we finally reach perfection, it is the product of many player's hard work and deliberate collaboration (ex. smb2, zelda), and not secrecy. I believe this is what causes the tension between speed run and time attack players. We place the emphasis on different things: skill vs. theoretical perfection. If we were advertising skill in time attacks, then we would be cheating, but many people fail to see that this is not why we make these movies. Moreover, it would be equally incorrect of us to insult speed runs by saying they're imperfect. We can't agree because we're aiming for different goals, and until everyone realizes that, the war between time attack and speed run players will never end.
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Many people are in fact ignorant. Go check many forums. Some still believe we do these "frame by frame" (of course that's untrue) and automatically assume that it is thus very easy to make a time attack video when hardly any of them have ever tried; others assume that we spend years making them! The problem is that these have become very widespread misconceptions which contribute to the growing ignorance. Many fail to realize that it is very difficult to achieve perfection and in these videos, and I believe that the main reason avid gamers mad at us is because our videos look like they're played better than their "genuine attempts" and what further angers them is that the large bulk of people still believe that we played the time attacks with pure skill. Moreover, more people are willing to see a time attack than speed run which gets on their nerves. Uninformed people who call us "gaming gods" just add to the problem. Speed run gamers feel undermined so they resort to name-calling, and the debate grows between time attacks and speed runs. But without time attacks I wouldn't know the ideal time to beat. I myself make both time attacks and speed runs with different intentions in each. I am not a cheater; I use time attacks to help me make better speed runs. If we work together and end the pointless flaming, we can help clear up these misconceptions. To me, one relates to theory, and the other is a definition of skill.
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Miles Hardison, the guy who made the punch out time attack on speedruns.org. At the end of the movie he gives thanks to Redtom (first to tko sandman in round 1). I don't know how involved Redtom was in the production of the video...
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he used pretty much the same strategies in his time attack that I did on my speed run, but with savestates he was able to control the randomness, something I could not do playing the game from start to end. His time attack beats my speed run by a little over a minute, which is very good for me :)