Anyone see the glaring problem with the proposed route modifications yet?
You need the bow to complete Snowhead optimally, especially the boss battle.
You need a bow and Fire Arrows to complete Woodfall optimally (the Gekko battle and shooting the torch).
You can't have both at the same time. Because Snowhead Temple is so far away from the warp point, Woodfall must be split into two parts.
If Woodfall is split up, there's no point in trying to get the hookshot with no bow, since the bow can fire much more quickly than Deku bubbles can.
Hence, petrie's route still prevails.
AKA, could you please provide a savestate after the initial cutscene (specifically after the log jumping in the first ten seconds or so) so that maybe people won't have to download all these AVIs? I'm making the perhaps wildly hopeful assumption that it won't desynch after that.
I tried that but the run keeps desyncing in the middle of Clock Town so no luck there, I may have to go deep into the run before I can get a savestate that works.
No, you can't use a Deku stick to carry the flame over.
Yes, you could do it the normal way, but it's slower by at least 20 seconds, including the mini-cutscene showing the platform rising. Without fire arrows, you'll also have to spend about 10-15 more seconds for the extra cycle in the Gekko battle. Another disadvantage is that you wouldn't have the Gilded Sword for the Odolwa battle (since you need to have gotten the fire arrows before the smithy is in business), and this could tack on about 10 seconds. Deku bubbles are also slightly more inefficient than arrows in the Pirates' fortress. So in total, I'd say about 50-70 seconds are wasted for completing Woodfall in one shot without either the sword or arrow upgrades.
On the other hand, splitting Woodfall into two segments involves an extra Deku hover to the temple (6-8 seconds) and four bomb hovers (~15 seconds). So it looks like this may be the faster choice after all. If you think you could convince me otherwise, please go for it. I could easily have missed some important factor(s).
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
sounds plausible to me.
I watched the AVI- I get the feeling that the Deku Spinning can be in a straighter line. And that was a nice way to get on the platform- but I think you can make the wai just a little more entertaining, by showing the extremeties of Frame Advance with Deku Link's moves, and try to get to some really difficult area, run around, and at the last possible frame make it to the door as the bell sounds.
I had to alter the movie at times so I could avoid desyncs. I think under the circumstances, I'll wait till the appropiate updates come along and start again, knowing some of the improvements that could be made, I think the central clock tower can be shot so that you can get some green ruppes, that'll save two transitional cutscenes, the inperfections after the scarecrow didn't really matter, because I'd still need to wait, so all in all I think maybe the movie could improved by 10-20 seconds. I also don't see any possible logic in going to snowhead and warping out after getting the fire arrows, just to save maybe 30-40 seconds in the first temple simply doesn't add up, I mean you'd have to perform snowhead early twice, and knowing full well how long and hard that trick actually is. Anyway can't you get the glided sword while on the first visit to snowhead via spring water, and then hovering into the Goron race and getting the bottle at the same time.
Joined: 8/26/2006
Posts: 1139
Location: United Kingdom
Perhaps it would make a difference if you used a PAL version of the game. I tested once with an NTSC (desyncs from the start) and then with a PAL version (no desyncs). PAL games run at 50Hz rather than 60Hz (although there is sometimes an option). So perhaps it won't be so demanding of the Mupen.
The problem being that i'm sure a few glitches (definitely the 'glitch out of clock town as Deku Link' glitch) were taken out of the PAL version. However, you may get lucky and the glitches that you use may be left in.
It is impossible for doing Woodfall in one go to be faster. Why? Because if you do, Tatl makes that really long speech after Odolwa. She doesn't if you split the temple.
So splitting Woodfall is pretty much cemented in.
Using a PAL version of any game is out of the question, all the glitches so far can be done on any version.
Is that the speech where you learn the OoO, you would be forced to sit through that at one point. Unless your refering to a different scene. Would that mean I'd you'd have to beat another Dungeon first. The only other dungeon that can be beaten first is GBT, but that has bottle issue problems. So how would getting the hookshot before entering the first dungeon change the route?
From my understanding, as long as the first dungeon you complete isn't Woodfall, Tatl won't give you that long speech. (You also learn the Oath to Order when you defeat your first boss, whichever one it is, but the cutscene with the giants isn't what petrie is referring to.) Snowhead is the first dungeon to be fully completed, and the order is
Woodfall 1 -> Snowhead -> Woodfall 2 -> Great Bay -> Stone Tower
I've taken a look at the "testrun" update. Very nice text-forwarding and usage of frame advance in general. I didn't expect that you could hit the Skull Kid before the timer even started ticking, or play all those notes on the ocarina without them appearing on the screen. Well done, AKA.
(For some reason, during the entire recollection with the princess, the screen was all black for me. Is this the case for any of you?)
Incase your wondering it did appear like that in the game and wasn't a capture problem. I also remember the lens lagging a lot in PJ64, I hope this isn't the case in Mupen.
Joined: 6/13/2006
Posts: 3300
Location: Massachussetts, USA
That's a bummer that it was black during the screen thing. I remember watching the Super Smash Bros. 6:20 run and the screen would occasionally turn black in the whole/part of the screen, very frustrating to watch.
I put mupen in a folder in my drive's root instead of 4 subfolders away from the root. I know that helped the corn emulator run games better. anyway, now it stays in sync up till the part when link goes into the stock pot in for the first time. he spins down the stairs turns left so sharply he hits the wall, then continues down the hall, then goes left then goes into the room with pots and a pond and just spins in the pond for a while :(
That where it roughly desynced for me first time. DL goes too fast into the door and then does everything you just mentioned. I'm still putting this game on hold, until at least someone whose capable of enconding avi's can watch it. Anyway I have to re-check the entire movie for desyncs. Just viewing the movie from a read only savestate isn't enough to check for desyncs. Maybe it has something to do with computer specs, it might lag in certain places where it shouldn't or maybe I'm acidently changing input twice inbeteen frames, or the game incorrectly judges my tilt and degree of movements by a certain fractions, but then again the game has desynced when scrolling through text. I have a feeling that the post dungeon sequences might have a black or very laggy screen, although I'd rather have an all black screen for movie making purposes than a screen that lags very badly e.g like the lens in PJ64.