a few weeks back it was a lot worse
with the new mega flip and some new hover findings we got the number of explosives for everything down a lot, so the run won't contain any endless and boring hovers anymore
the good thing is, that this run will look completely different to mukki's one. When SL gave the full game TAS the first try he was basicly going to use the route mukki used ;)
now we have an awesome new route with all that new tricks, that will sub 2 hours :)
So, unless I'm mistaken, the minimum explosive requirement for Stone Tower area is...
Hover across gap: 4 bomb, 3 chu
Hover across gap: 4 bomb, 3 chu
Hover from Owl: 3 bomb, 2 chu
First Sun Block: 3 bomb, 3 chu
Other Sun Block: 2 bomb, 3 chu
Updraft Room: 1 bomb
Inverted Tower: 1 bomb, 1 chu
Angle Long Jump: 1 bomb
Boss Key Skip: 6 bomb, 5 chu
Total: 25 bomb, 20 chu
EDIT: Yeah, I'm getting at least a 20s time saving for not refilling chus. We'll need a bomb pickup to do it, but there's one by the Owl statue, as well as ones from the Nejirons in the temple.
Both gaps on the way up can be crossed with 4 mega hovers. The first might be able to be done with 3 if you start on the hookshot tower. In any case, that makes 6 chus for scaling the exterior, 9 needed for the temple, and 5 left over. That means one of the Sun Blocks will need to use a bomb to hover. Other than that, we should be all good.
Couldn't you lessen the hover-time and explosives spent by using the hookshot while still standing in mid-air?
Anyhow one less trip to the bombshop is allways a nice thing and it also means less rupes, that also saves some time.
@MrGrunz
I've seen you speak german in a lot of your youtube comments. Are you from germany? If so I remember that you considered buying a recorder to capture a speedrun and just fyi Aldi has HDD-recorders next week: http://www.aldi-nord.de/OFFER_D_MO/OFFER_13/OFF03.SHTML
Couldn't you lessen the hover-time and explosives spent by using the hookshot while still standing in mid-air?
Anyhow one less trip to the bombshop is allways a nice thing and it also means less rupes, that also saves some time.
@MrGrunz
I've seen you speak german in a lot of your youtube comments. Are you from germany? If so I remember that you considered buying a recorder to capture a speedrun and just fyi Aldi has HDD-recorders next week: http://www.aldi-nord.de/OFFER_D_MO/OFFER_13/OFF03.SHTML
yeah, I'm from germany
that seems to be a good and cheap recorder and I think of buying it, but there's one problem:
I'm from south germany, so in the region, where I live, there is only aldi-south and not aldi-north, so will I also be able to buy that recorder in a aldi-south store?
petrie, did you take into consideration how much slower it is to do only superflips over a gap, instead of one superflip and the rest as bombchu hovers? :/
that seems to be a good and cheap recorder and I think of buying it, but there's one problem:
I'm from south germany, so in the region, where I live, there is only aldi-south and not aldi-north, so will I also be able to buy that recorder in a aldi-south store?
No sadly Aldi Süd doesn't have it. So unless you live near a Bundesland that has Aldi Nord your screwed. :( Sorry I didn't think about that there are two Aldi branches. I only get the Newsletter for Nord.
petrie911 wrote:
Slowking wrote:
petrie911 wrote:
Hover across gap: 4 bomb, 3 chu
Couldn't you lessen the hover-time and explosives spent by using the hookshot while still standing in mid-air?
I wish. The hookshot does not work while standing in midair. Try it yourself.
I'm not able to do the hover tricks yet. maybe I'll get it some day.
Are you unable to shoot the hookshot in the air or just unable to aim? If you are just unable to aim you could probably still use it at the second hover...
Swordless Link wrote:
petrie, did you take into consideration how much slower it is to do only superflips over a gap, instead of one superflip and the rest as bombchu hovers? :/
Well a megaflip takes about 5 seconds. A normal flip takes about 1 second. Since a megaflip spans 3 times the distance of a normal flip you loose 2 seconds on every megaflip.
So not counting the first megaflip (you'll do this one anyhow, since you need a bomb in the beginning) you loose 12 seconds on the first two hovers combined and 4 seconds on the last hover, up to stone tower.
That makes a total of 16 seconds lost.
I think at the bosskey skip it could be about 20 seconds lost.
So that makes a total of 36 seconds lost. Let's round up to 40 to have a uncertainty-buffer.
I'm pretty sure that it's faster than a trip to the bomb shop. The two songs of soaring alone would cost you more time and then you would still have to get rupes, walk to the bombshop and buy the bombs.
yeah, it is slower, swordless, but we also get the number of needed explosives down, so clearing a gap with mega flip is not that much slower and not warping to CT, getting the nescessary rupess, buying them and wrping back saves a lot of time, so stone tower is definately faster with this strat.
if you would use woodfall temple boss key skip you should definately use normal bombchu hovers there.
I think, we can do stone tower boss key skip with 10 explosives instead of 11 if we use one single bomb hover instead of the 5th mega flip
Playing around with Mega Flip in Pirate's Fortress:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkLhBwRZtg0
I also figured out a cool way to skip the last battle, we normally don't skip, that could be pretty useful. It only requieres 7 explosives and if optimized it takes maybe around 19 seconds, what should be definately faster than ding it the normally way.
We have also only a normal sword, so the battle would take a lot longer ;)
petrie, did you take into consideration how much slower it is to do only superflips over a gap, instead of one superflip and the rest as bombchu hovers? :/
Yes, of course. You lose ~8 bomb timers this way, which is ~30s, while a trip to the bomb shop is ~50s at least. Plus, you don't have to hit the owl statue, and hovering with chus still takes a small amount of time. Really, I'm certain it works out in favor of not refilling.
I'm going to figure out the minimum explosives we need for various areas, then get back to you on a revised route.
I've done both Snowhead hovers, the hover in GBT (not the boss key skip; the short one), and the hover in Woodfall (again, the short one).
All of them take 3 explosives (2 bombs/1 chu) minimum, except the second Snowhead hover which takes an extra. That's the hover that gets us to the boss door, mind you.
I haven't done any testing on GBT's boss key skip or the fairy fountain warps, so you should probably test those. I realize the fairy fountains will probably only have a savings of 1 explosive, but I'd still like a confirmed number. That should be all the hovering we need to test, as obviously the ranch, the GB fence, and the Deku Palace haven't changed.
You checked the Woodfall boss key skip, right? We'll probably just use chus for it, but never hurts to try these things.
I've just did a little bit math with woodfall boss key skip and the best way seems to be to use 2 Mega Flips (one of bomb for ISG and one in the end) and 18 bombchu hovers
I'll try if it works and then we can time it
how long is that fairy cutscence after woodfall if you beat it the first time?
just a little question where do all these tricks come from?
are you testing them seperatly or is it from a tas you are doing?
I'm a glitch hunter, so my goal is to break MM completely apart
and all those tricks are the result of it ;)
I simply try to find new stuff and some ideas work
petrie, did you take into consideration how much slower it is to do only superflips over a gap, instead of one superflip and the rest as bombchu hovers? :/
Yes, of course. You lose ~8 bomb timers this way, which is ~30s, while a trip to the bomb shop is ~50s at least. Plus, you don't have to hit the owl statue, and hovering with chus still takes a small amount of time. Really, I'm certain it works out in favor of not refilling.
I allready did some complicated math in my post above and everybody is ignoring it. :D Bottom line: Since 3 normal hovers take 3 seconds and a megahover takes 5, you only lose 2 seconds on every megahover, which is really not that much when you compare it to a trip to the bomb shop.
petrie911 wrote:
I've done both Snowhead hovers, the hover in GBT (not the boss key skip; the short one), and the hover in Woodfall (again, the short one).
All of them take 3 explosives (2 bombs/1 chu) minimum, except the second Snowhead hover which takes an extra.
For the first one in snowhead could you maybe get by with two megaflips, going like this: http://home.arcor.de/slowking/tas/snowheadflip.jpg ?
Since we are doing it directly after the ffww and the song skip we'll need to save every chu we can and two flips there would only need two bombs. (there are at least 2 bomb drops in the temple, one on the route the other a little out of the way, so those shouldn't be a big problem).
MrGrunz wrote:
This one is extremely cool. I tried to get oob there but couldn't get it to work. Respekt!
Now if you could get oob in the booskey room in woodfall without the hookshot... ;)
evilchen wrote:
just a little question where do all these tricks come from?
are you testing them seperatly or is it from a tas you are doing?
A lot are known from previous runs, but a lot are found right now through testing. For example the megaflip found by petrie or the bosskey skips found by MrGrunz are all brand new.
thanks slowking
the tricks was really hard to discover. using save stats is a milestone in finding tricks, because it took me a while to figure out the right angles for everything
left to discover:
GBT boss key skip with less explosives
Woodfall boss key skip with less explosives
I'll try some stuff today, maybe I'll find something.
what's going on with swordless? does he still want to do the TAS or did he lost the motivation, because he had to restart so many times already?
I saw a video about reseting while tasing. is this only possible with the new mupen version?
if so, is it available for windows already?
I've done both Snowhead hovers, the hover in GBT (not the boss key skip; the short one), and the hover in Woodfall (again, the short one).
All of them take 3 explosives (2 bombs/1 chu) minimum, except the second Snowhead hover which takes an extra.
For the first one in snowhead could you maybe get by with two megaflips, going like this: http://home.arcor.de/slowking/tas/snowheadflip.jpg ?
Since we are doing it directly after the ffww and the song skip we'll need to save every chu we can and two flips there would only need two bombs. (there are at least 2 bomb drops in the temple, one on the route the other a little out of the way, so those shouldn't be a big problem).
what's going on with swordless? does he still want to do the TAS or did he lost the motivation, because he had to restart so many times already?
While my motivation is regularly shattered, I definitely do want to finish this run. I'm just waiting until you're done looking for these things before I seriously get started again, just in case.
That GBT method is great, BTW.
