Former player
Joined: 5/22/2004
Posts: 462
Uhh... I'd like to see Wizards and Warriors 2 : Ironsword's password cracked. That would make me very happy. Thank you very much.
Joined: 7/7/2005
Posts: 3
OK. I just didn't know if you used hacks to cause the game to have an "A" password which it couldn't otherwise have. Also ... entry times for each code? From all that optimal-speed game beating you guys do, I can see. Heh. How did you achieve your vault code list? Did you compare some known ones to try to derive the rest? The original person that emailed me the method of generating the vault codes (which I have yet to include in my FAQ but will soon) - his method works with all tested codes, and makes perfect sense in terms of the binary workings of the password. In short, say you changed from S-code to C-code. That is a change from 10000 to 00010. Bits 1 and 4 are changed - this flips bits 1 and 4 in all the digits in the vault code. In essence, the vault code is affected in the same way the password is - by the vault-code-PW-digit. Starting with S-vault-code and flipping those bits, the resulting C-vault-code is then N1KMHGOF. Hmm, that matches yours, not his. It is a lot of tedious work to do all 31, and error-prone. To avoid further human error, I'm just going to write a C-program to let me do it automatically. I will post the results and credit you both accordingly. P.S. Yes I HATE W&W games for their frustration level as well! (Though they were cool.) Cracking Ironsword would be a good project...
nesrocks
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Joined: 5/1/2004
Posts: 4096
Location: Rio, Brazil
TurboC, i did it the hard way, i used gamegenie codes to give me: - infinite keys - infinite bombs - infinite health - walk through walls - infinite patience and i played the game at 200% speed, and used password hacking to get to the levels i wanted, and start each password i wanted, then i got to ALL HINT ROOMS for each password. -------------------- i didnt use hacks of any sort, the game decides which is going to be the first letter of the password at the character select screen (not before, not after). The letters are cycling adding +1 to the letter byte for each game frame (60 per second). what i did was press A on each frame to start the game, so i got 31 game starts in sequence each one with an starting password letter (including A). -------------------------------- I'll try to understand that vault system later and see why the A code differs from the others sequentially. Its insteresting that the total bytes of the vault code add up +2 for each +1 added to the seed letter. except for A apparently. hmm i understood how that works, i'll just analize the A specificacly later. gotta go dinner ---------------------- btw, you did notice that this is a tool-assisted speedruns community, right, aka savestate runs. i've just completed one that finished the game in 13 minutes ~ but it didnt use optimal vault code and there are lots of other mistakes, so i'm gonna improve it.
Joined: 7/7/2005
Posts: 3
Yes, I pretty much gathered it was a "speedruns" forum, just didn't know what that was called. I have watched some of the videos before. By the way, your current list is completely correct, I just verified it using the results from my completed C program, which correctly generated all vault codes based on the known S-code and bit-flipping, with the method given to me by "DarkCecil". So his method and your list were right. I'm glad I could independantly verify it without doing them all by hand. You actually went through the entire game for each PW?? o.O Well, at least you could walk through walls I guess... Mathematically the A-code is no different from any of the other 31 codes, as it obeys the same rules and can be generated from the S-code (or any code) in the same way. I don't think it's right to call the first PW digit a "seed" after all, that was just my original musing. You could look at it this way. The "real" vault combo is the A-combo (00000 combo.) Then the first digit in the password modifies the vault combo the exact same way it modifies the other 8 digits in the password, by bit-flipping. But I don't remember the proper term for what the first PW digit would be (bit mask?) Maybe you are seeing patterns in the A-combo as different because only the highest order bits in the vault combos happen to have an odd mix of 0's and 1's? I don't know, just something I noticed. Anyway, I think most everything about the password is utterly and totally conquered now. Thanks for the idea-bouncing, I'll update the FAQ shortly.
Banned User
Joined: 5/11/2004
Posts: 1049
I liked this game a lot because it was 2 player simultanious; doing 2 players would slow you down quite a bit right? I didn't like how you were expected to shoot every block to fit secret exits. Do you need these to go to all the right levels, or how do you go to all the right levels, and once you miss one can you go back to it?
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
nesrocks
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Player (246)
Joined: 5/1/2004
Posts: 4096
Location: Rio, Brazil
Yea each exit corresponds to a path in the map, so i had to go to the especific exits for the path i chose on the map to be the fastest. 2 players advantages: - more complex, always better - some cooperation when backtracking in the level is needed such as flash tiles, etc. - double bomb and keys capacity (20 instead of 10) - the dragon should be killed faster (i didnt test but i dont believe the health of the dragon is doubled on 2p mode). 2 players disadvantages: - they jam in tight corridors - lag - only 1 invincibility at level 87 (which lasts untill level 100 on my run). and only 1 player can grab it, i think the other palyer would have to be extra carefull not to die. [edit]MAYBE its possible for both to grab an item if they walk to it at the same time. this would make the 2 player run the best choice. to be tested[/edit] [edit#2]i managed to make the players get inside each other, not as simple as with monsters, but works. but still, they aren't both getting the treasure i'm testing it on, its either one of them that gets it (player 1 seem to have advantage) i also managed to go through moveable walls, but it doesnt seem usefull as i have to wait for them to move.[/edit] - have to find a second speed upgrade, and i'm not sure where. the slow character would set the pace of the run untill the second speed upgrade was found. the first one being found on level 37 i think the best place for the second speed upgrade would be level 75 (about 25 levels later or something, in my route). I think there are only 2 of each upgrade in the whole game, but i'm not sure i'll look at it further because if there's another speed upgrade in a level i didnt visit it may be better to change the route to get it if its early enough (level 75 is too late to get it). But i can see a 2 player run being very interesting as long as the lag is not too big.
Joined: 3/22/2004
Posts: 95
There are 3 places where you can pick up speed potions. Level 37 (the one currently taken), level 39 (which is a detour through a laggy level with narrow corridors), and level 75 (which is very late in the game). IIRC you can speed up level 39 slightly by bombing death instead of teleporting on top of him.. of course, this costs a potion. There are also issues with two players using the same teleporter -- you can't exit on the same square until the other player moves. This would further slow down the run, as players would have to wait for one another to enter/exit the teleporter before the next could enter. The screen stays focused on the middle-point between the two players, which can sometimes lead to issues when trying to exit from a specific teleporter. No, I'm pretty sure that a 2-player run would be slower than a 1-player run.
nesrocks
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Player (246)
Joined: 5/1/2004
Posts: 4096
Location: Rio, Brazil
I know it would be slower, but if it isnt TOO much slower i prefer a 2p run because the entertainment traded would be good. With my new route and improvements it might even be faster than 13:09, but i havent decided to do it 2 players yet.
nesrocks
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Player (246)
Joined: 5/1/2004
Posts: 4096
Location: Rio, Brazil
Who can help me? i tried to submit the new one and it showed this: Archive: /tmp/phpLqvh6x inflating: /tmp/nesvzip_1123193499_1448969250/gauntlet-foda-new-v12.fcm FCM error: Movie begins from a snapshot I don't remember now, but i probably paused the emulator, chose "power" then started recording "from now". I didnt lose any frame in the process, i just didnt like recording from reset. Now it's saying i started from a savestate, and i can't hexedit.... uhhh well, i resaved the movie using genisto's easy byte modificator and it seems to have removed the savestate, and the movie is working, so, its ok :)
Former player
Joined: 7/2/2005
Posts: 309
Location: Baltimore, MD
Great job. For a second I thought you were gonig to die. Have you considered trying Gauntlet 2??
Guybrush: "I'm selling these fine leather jackets." Wally: "Really?" Guybrush: "No. I 'm lying." Wally: "In that case, I don't want one!" Currently working on: Nothing at the moment.
nesrocks
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Player (246)
Joined: 5/1/2004
Posts: 4096
Location: Rio, Brazil
Thanks And, as far as i know gauntlet 2 is infinite, so no...
Former player
Joined: 7/2/2005
Posts: 309
Location: Baltimore, MD
Never ending? Wow I never knew that despite all the hours I've poured into that game. Anyway, have you ever considered doing another run of Gauntlet I where you play through the game and get the password from the secret rooms? I know you already know what they all are but for the sake of fun, how fast do you think it could be done?
Guybrush: "I'm selling these fine leather jackets." Wally: "Really?" Guybrush: "No. I 'm lying." Wally: "In that case, I don't want one!" Currently working on: Nothing at the moment.
Editor, Skilled player (1198)
Joined: 9/27/2008
Posts: 1085
I'm improving something. Roughly 60% done. While you are free to talk about my run (this is a TAS site, after all), I'm mostly posting for help with aesthetics of this script. In particular, I want to generate ASCII maps of the various rooms, but I'm not sure which character to put to each object. Would be nice to generate a guide or something. There are exits, various monsters, treasures & other items, doors, chests, secret walls, breakable walls, switch walls & switch panels, stun panels, and possibly a few things I'm missing. I've identified 69 distinct objects (including empty), which makes finding unique ASCII characters for each of them rather more difficult while keeping some level of intuition. Open the script if you want to see the detailed list of things I've identified. A sample map I've generated:
+r01-----------------------------+ 1 - You start here (x09 y05)
|################################|   - Empty floor
|# $          #g      #          | # - Wall
|#            #       +g     #   | + -  3:Door
|#            #       +g #  g   X|
|#                    #    #g #  | K -  3: Key
|#        1           #          | P -  1: Potion, durable
|#            #       # #     #g | F -  1: Food bowl (durable)
|# K          #       #    #     | $ - 15: Treasure
|#            #g      #G         |
|#######################  ###  ##| g - Ghost
|#           F#h    #     #      | h - Grunt
|#      e     #h    #     #      |
|#          ###h    +     #      | G - Ghost generator
|#          #$$     +     #     #|
|#          #$$     +     #     G| X - Secret wall (shoot it!)
|#          #$$h    #     #      |     This one contains EXIT->r05
|#          #$$h    #K    #      |
|###  #######$$     #########++##| e - Normal exit (to r02)
|#          ###K    #     #  gg  |
|#            #######            |
|#     #      #              gg  |
|#    G#      #           #      |
|########  ####      ########  ##|
|#     G g    #g#   #$$# G#      |
|#       g    #     #     #      |
|#            # ### #            |
|#                # #  #         |
|#           #  G # #$$# P#      |
+--------------------------------+
Active player (475)
Joined: 2/1/2014
Posts: 928
FatRatKnight wrote:
Link to video
Editor, Skilled player (1198)
Joined: 9/27/2008
Posts: 1085
Just a note: The encode uses the 20% done file rather than the 60% done file I've recently uploaded and linked to in my prior post. Still, thanks for the fast encode. Mistakes or not, it's more than what I can say for myself.
Joined: 7/2/2007
Posts: 3960
Is Gauntlet 1 actually completable? I know Gauntlet II just loops forever; way back in the day I left my NES running for days and had a warrior with 99 carrying capacity, run speed something like three times faster than the elf, tons of extra shot power/armor, etc. from all the dragon boosts. Still sucked at using magic though. :D
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
Active player (475)
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Posts: 928
Editor, Skilled player (1198)
Joined: 9/27/2008
Posts: 1085
Derakon wrote:
Is Gauntlet 1 actually completable? I know Gauntlet II just loops forever; way back in the day I left my NES running for days and had a warrior with 99 carrying capacity, run speed something like three times faster than the elf, tons of extra shot power/armor, etc. from all the dragon boosts. Still sucked at using magic though. :D
[392] NES Gauntlet by nesrocks in 12:24.65 The first Gauntlet game can be completed. There are 101 rooms, if you count the demo as a separate room. This game needs you to find the eight clue rooms (to learn the password, something that can be known ahead of time) in order to enter room 100, and find the orb to win the game. solarplex: Thanks for the second encode!
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Posts: 1085
User movie #22781190872746344 I have myself a completed run. I hope the potion management was done better, and the dragon was slain much quicker by attacking all three heads right away instead of one at a time, due to the fact a head currently breathing fire is immune to damage. Haven't started on subtitles yet, but I'll try to come up with something. I may set myself a deadline so that waiting on my TAS a whole year doesn't happen again. And if not, perhaps I should offer open permission once more. In any case, do expect a submission in no more than a few weeks. Hopefully when I can think straight, I'll get to my usual writing.
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Editor, Skilled player (1198)
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I'm starting to doubt myself on the value of subtitles for this game. I realize this is probably a bad thing to be doubting myself on. So, I'll ask for opinions before making a decision. So, uh... Any opinions? I don't know what specific thing to ask. If it helps, this is my listing in progress:
subtitle 30 Gauntlet TAS, any%. This run aims for fastest time.
subtitle 330 I delay at character select for best vault combo.
subtitle 630 FODA worked out vault combos. I'm just following it.
subtitle 930 Elf has highest speed. A lot of running is needed.
subtitle 1230 Weak shots (1 damage out of 3), decent magic.
subtitle 1530 Surprisingly good Health gains from treasure.
subtitle 1830 Since most is running to exit, speed is king.
subtitle 2160 This game has a bunch of secret walls to shoot.
subtitle 2460 These walls can contain almost anything.
subtitle 2760 I've worked out internal RAM for these secrets.
subtitle 3060 Naturally, for TAS, I produce scripts to show RAM.
subtitle 3360 Among other things, there's not a secret I don't see.
subtitle 3660 Just show a number where an object is.
subtitle 3960 Secret walls count as an object. Thus, I see them.
subtitle 4260 I spot a few secrets the last TAS didn't get.
subtitle 4600 This game gets a lot of lag. Slows things down.
subtitle 4900 Lag happens when the game has a lot to process.
subtitle 5200 Look at those monsters. That's a lot to process.
subtitle 5500 Time spent killing can be made up with less lag.
subtitle 5800 A potion can clear an entire screen of enemies.
subtitle 6100 As such, potions can greatly assist lag problems.
subtitle 6400 A screen clear can be worth a few seconds alone!
subtitle 6700 A potion just a few steps away is worth it.

subtitle 7150 Extra Shot - My arrows do more damage (1->2)
subtitle 7450 Later, I must shoot out 300 HP. x2 damage helps.
subtitle 7750 That Extra Shot took about 4.5 seconds.
subtitle 8050 300 -> 150 shots is far more than 5 seconds.
subtitle 8350 I say getting Extra Shot is worth it.

subtitle 8720 Extra Fight - Ramming enemies more effective.
subtitle 9020 Running into enemies do random damage.
subtitle 9320 Supposedly, Extra Fight helps in "melee" damage.
subtitle 9620 At base level, I could already kill 3 HP foes.
subtitle 9920 Though, randomly, I could do 1 or 2 damage.
subtitle 10220 Hard to say how much Extra Fight helps, really.
subtitle 10520 Still, Extra Fight was directly in the way.
subtitle 10820 Not getting it means I spend time shooting it.
subtitle 11160 Treasure rooms are helpful, but RTA hates 'em.
subtitle 11460 When you find the exit, you recover fully!
subtitle 11760 Alas, the exit is randomly located.
subtitle 12060 In TAS, manipulate the closest exit, of course!
subtitle 12360 RTA (Real-Time Attack) can only hope.
subtitle 12660 
subtitle 12960 
subtitle 13260
subtitle 13560
subtitle 13860
subtitle 14160
subtitle 14460

14980 Extra Speed - Run faster (3->4; 2->3 diagonal)

20560 Extra Magic - Potions more likely to slay stuff
I figure lag reduction makes up for picking this.
Extra Armor is another power-up. I never get it.

To enter room 100, you need the vault combo.
An unassisted run can "guess" the vault combo.
They merely need to look at their password.
The first character of the password determines combo.
Have a list of 32 combos handy. "Guessing" is easy.
In TAS, manipulate the fastest combo, of course!
This combo needed manipulation from the beginning.
Ah, this dragon. Each head has 100 HP. Total 300 HP!
If a head is breathing fire, it's immune to damage.
So, "activate" all three heads at different times.
When one is breathing fire, I can shoot another!
By the way... What TAS doesn't play with death?
Do enjoy my rather low HP. And the ending, too.
This was FatRatKnight, TASer and subtitler.
Joined: 7/2/2007
Posts: 3960
Those look good to me; there's some good information in there. If you're getting tired of writing subtitles, then I think what you've already written is plenty. In general though subtitles don't hurt runs; in the absolute worst case the viewer can just turn them off.
Pyrel - an open-source rewrite of the Angband roguelike game in Python.
Editor, Skilled player (1198)
Joined: 9/27/2008
Posts: 1085
IRC had also given plenty of encouragement, so I'll continue working on the subtitles some more. With any luck, expect a submission soon.
Editor, Skilled player (1198)
Joined: 9/27/2008
Posts: 1085
So, at the published run displayed on YouTube, there's a comment or two.
Daniel Holmes wrote:
Would it save time to do the key underrun glitch?
Guggensulli wrote:
Yep with getting KeyFlow glitch in start of room 22. It would likely save at least 5 seconds overall. It could possibly go for it somewhere earlier too.
What is this and how do I do it? You are free to ask why I would randomly review my old TASes at times. Don't expect a satisfactory answer. Probably ego or something.