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Former player
Joined: 7/12/2004
Posts: 146
Location: Dirty South, USA.
-ziplock- wrote:
The 3 at the top are wide open, but the two through the door just below the 3 are blocked by a bomb wall. Getting to the door isn't the problem. Is there a way to glitch up to the 2 tanks from somewhere else? Or am I missing something simple?
MAP The Ice Beam is in that room. The 2 missle tanks are in the room above the 3 missle tank room.
If for honesty, you want apologies, I don't sympathize.
Banned User
Joined: 5/11/2004
Posts: 1049
Zoizite wrote:
To get the top 2 missle tanks, you can bomb boost jump or door glitch. It may be possible to get a ripper to spawn so you can get up there with the ice beam. I do a bomb boost jump to get up there in my new run. You also need to do the same just to get to the 3 missle tank room.
I was able to get a riper to spawn up top simply by killing the last verticle lava hoper before exiting the 3 MP row. You can boost off him without ice beam to get up to the top row. This saves a big glitch up. The glitch up from the ice beam row to the 3 MP row is really small, I think you could do it with only jumping 5-10 times total, you would want to roll out in ball form and jump up the platform. I think this would be a pretty neat run and fairly fast too. I've been trying to get the same type of glitch you can do in the lower left corner of kraid's lair to work somewhere else. This could be really usefull for a 100% run.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Former player
Joined: 9/26/2004
Posts: 217
All you really need to do is jump to the platform above the door to the three tanks, ball up, roll off, and morph jump to the top level.
Banned User
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-ziplock- wrote:
All you really need to do is jump to the platform above the door to the three tanks, ball up, roll off, and morph jump to the top level.
Ah, yes indeed. Doing it with the ripper might be faster though. I think what makes the glitch work in the lower left corner of Kraid's lair is that there is a closed red door. I don't see any other red doors that could be used praticaly this way.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Former player
Joined: 9/26/2004
Posts: 217
The ripper would be faster if he was in perfect position so you didn't have to stop when you entered the shaft. Otherwise, you'd be waiting anyway. But yes, it would be faster. On a side note, has anyone ever actually gotten into Tourian with just taking damage from the creature and no bombs? It's proving quite trying. EDIT: OK, here's the awful, hastily put together framework for the boss-less run. [URL=http://www.nintendorecords.com/metroid-bossless.zip]CLICKY[/URL] Nevermind the mistakes - I put it together quick, but here's what I noticed: 1) The second missile tank collected is obselete - avoiding this should save about 1 minute. 2) The bombs may or may not be unnecessary. I tried and tried and failed and failed to get the boost simply from damage, but couldn't pull it off. There's obviously a trick to it that I'm not getting. But if possible, skipping the bombs should save about 1-2 minutes. 3) There are at least 1-2 minutes of mis-jumps and stalling. I played at around 25% at some parts to just see if this run was possible, so there isn't a thing about it that's perfect. 4) The wall climb to the morph jump in Norfair can be done much faster. I don't think you'd need to go nearly as high as I did to get the boost. 5) With the perfect ripper spawn in Norfair, it may not be necessary to jump to the above ledge and roll off, but it would take Cracker-Jack timing from the ripper. 6) Item drops can be done mucho-faster-o everywhere. 7) Whoever suggested Mother Brain remembers her hits was correct, but he failed to mention the jar needs to be broken again (It doesn't change anything, thankfully). Because I collected an extra tank, I adjusted myself in Tourian. So the order, with 30 missiles, is such: - Enter lair with 30 missiles, break 3 Zeebetites, exit to reload with 6. - Enter lair with 30 missiles, break remaining 2 Zeebetites, break jar, fire 8 shots at Mother Brain, exit to reload with 5. - Enter lair with 30 missiles, break jar, kill Mother Brain. With perfection, I think this could be a serious contender for the any% run. Tourian takes a while longer, but with not much back-tracking anywhere, it's gonna be close. 8) The UP+A utelization may not be in the perfect spots. (The one from the last missile in Norfair after the last missile is fine, but it's probably faster to NOT use UP+A after getting the ice beam if you don't go for the bombs. Just guessing though.) Also, I don't pretend to be a pro here, but in Tourian it seems faster to roll back and forth down the shaft than to drop, but I don't know for certain. But it seems faster than any run that's up. Could be an illusion. (EDIT: I just tested the frame count of this movie versus Zoizite's 1% run for this section and found mine to be 20 frames slower; however, I did half-ass it in a couple of tries and Zoizite's run through the shaft looks optimized. But again, take into consideration going into and coming out of the ball. I still believe, though, a perfect ball roll through this area is faster than standing tall.) I would love someone who's solid at this game to make this run, rather than have me submit 4 or 5 that keep getting rejected. But I'm working on a faster version and would love some suggestions. Take it from here...
Former player
Joined: 9/26/2004
Posts: 217
I suppose everyone thinks this is a bad idea then. No input at all?
Joined: 11/11/2004
Posts: 400
Location: ::1
I'm not sure about everyone else, but I at least didn't get a notification email for your above post (and thus didn't read it until now). o.o Ah well. *watches now*
Former player
Joined: 9/26/2004
Posts: 217
You didn't get the memo from third floor accounting? Hope your TPS reports still come out OK :) (Probably because I just edited the last post)
Joined: 11/11/2004
Posts: 400
Location: ::1
Heh. ^^ Anyhow, I like it - I have a thing for those "achieve as little as possible and collect only what you really absolutely need" runs. ^^
Former player
Joined: 3/13/2004
Posts: 1118
Location: Kansai, JAPAN
Looks pretty cool. If you can avoid the bombs, things will be super-sweet.
Do Not Talk About Feitclub http://www.feitclub.com
Former player
Joined: 7/12/2004
Posts: 146
Location: Dirty South, USA.
ziplock wrote:
2) The bombs may or may not be unnecessary. I tried and tried and failed and failed to get the boost simply from damage, but couldn't pull it off. There's obviously a trick to it that I'm not getting. But if possible, skipping the bombs should save about 1-2 minutes.
I'm not absolutely certain it's possible. I never quite got up there when I tried. I did come VERY close, though, but I was playing at 100% speed.
ziplock wrote:
EDIT: I just tested the frame count of this movie versus Zoizite's 1% run for this section and found mine to be 20 frames slower; however, I did half-ass it in a couple of tries and Zoizite's run through the shaft looks optimized. But again, take into consideration going into and coming out of the ball. I still believe, though, a perfect ball roll through this area is faster than standing tall.)
I will definately be testing this when I get there during my new run.
ziplock wrote:
With perfection, I think this could be a serious contender for the any% run. Tourian takes a while longer, but with not much back-tracking anywhere, it's gonna be close.
I really don't think so. I have a good feeling Arc's new run will much faster than this(he took over the run completely, since I'm doing the 100% now). I pretty much know how long it's going to take, but we're not telling. =P I've run into some snags in my new movie, and it's probably cost me 2-3 seconds so far. The lava jumping monsters in Norfair have spawned in low jumping mode, which is causing me some problems, and I don't know what causes this. By the way, your method for reaching the 2 missle room of the 5 missle cluster is 4 frames faster than bomb boosting. However, freezing the ripper is about 30 frames faster than that.
If for honesty, you want apologies, I don't sympathize.
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Joined: 5/11/2004
Posts: 1049
It would make sense if the ball was faster for that part of tourian. This is because you can change direction sooner after falling since you only have half of the modle size to wait untill it falls past the platform. Might also want to try moving away from the platform as you fall and then back towrds at just the right time so as to utilize horizontal mometum. (not sure if this exits when in the air for metriod) This is just an idea, but maybe the low jumping lava guys is from entering the 3 MP row when the screen is scrolled down most of the way? if not this then I would suspect it would have to do with were enemies are/exist before you enter the room with the lava hopers.
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Former player
Joined: 7/12/2004
Posts: 146
Location: Dirty South, USA.
Spider-Waffle wrote:
It would make sense if the ball was faster for that part of tourian. This is because you can change direction sooner after falling since you only have half of the modle size to wait untill it falls past the platform. Might also want to try moving away from the platform as you fall and then back towrds at just the right time so as to utilize horizontal mometum. (not sure if this exits when in the air for metriod)
I was thinking pretty much the same thing. The momentum thing seems a bit quirky. I'm going to try to pin it down exactly. This will help with the vertical falling sequences. The first shaft of Tourian in my 1 item run was INSANELY difficult to do without hitting a platform. That probably took more time and re-records than any other section I've done. I didn't even think I could do it, but I tried, just to see if it could be done.
Spider-Waffle wrote:
This is just an idea, but maybe the low jumping lava guys is from entering the 3 MP row when the screen is scrolled down most of the way? if not this then I would suspect it would have to do with were enemies are/exist before you enter the room with the lava hopers.
From what I've seen, and what I've heard on other boards, this is a permanent thing each game. It is like this for every single one of those lava jumpers. They all jump low. I have no idea when the switch for this would be set. From what I've heard, it also affects other things, like the pattern of Ridley's fireballs. I think I've eliminated entering Norfair as a candidate. I tried going down the elevator at different frames, but the jumpers were always low. I don't think it's startup, either, because I started the game in the exact amount of frames as my 1 item. Weird.
If for honesty, you want apologies, I don't sympathize.
Former player
Joined: 9/26/2004
Posts: 217
The momentum thing is rough - it seems like a single bounce/double bounce/single bounce/etc. really works wonders, but I'd imagine you'd have to nail something perfectly from the start and hope you didn't run into any rinkas or metroids directly in your path along the way. And don't forget the few frames it takes to go into and come out of the ball. As for the low jumpers - sorry, no ideas whatsoever.
Banned User
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Posts: 1049
Maybe the guy that did the dragon warrior speedrun can decode how the random variable is determined?
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
Former player
Joined: 9/26/2004
Posts: 217
Well, here I am at the bomb empass, and I'm not sure which way to go. Is there anyone who can confirm or deny the idea that you can be boosted across the Tourian bridge with damage alone? I've heard it's possible, and I'll keep trying if it is, but otherwise, I'm going for the bombs. But I don't want to go on further until I know one way or the other.
Arc
Editor, Experienced player (813)
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Posts: 534
Location: Arizona
I've done it before. You don't need bombs.
Former player
Joined: 9/26/2004
Posts: 217
Then I'll keep trying. Honestly, it's not looking too good. Sure wish a vet would pick up on this idea instead *wink wink*. Thanks for the info, though.
Arc
Editor, Experienced player (813)
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Posts: 534
Location: Arizona
I'm making both a no-boss movie and an any % movie.
Arc
Editor, Experienced player (813)
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Posts: 534
Location: Arizona
I think it's a good idea to announce when you'll be submitting a movie. I'll submit the Metroid no-boss movie on Dec 31 2004 at about 18:00 GMT.
Former player
Joined: 9/26/2004
Posts: 217
Can't wait to see it - I'm curious how fast it can be pulled off.
Former player
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Wow, beating Metroid without fighting Mother Brain. I gotta see this.
Joined: 11/11/2004
Posts: 400
Location: ::1
Now that would really be something worth watching... but somehow, I doubt that's what Arc meant. ^_~
Joined: 4/11/2004
Posts: 104
The Metroid videos have been my favorites since first visiting this site, especially since they have gotten steadily faster over time. I look forward to finding out just what is meant by "no-boss." Edit: And to think, I could have found out just by checking the Workbench. Now I'm just looking forward to seeing it!
Banned User
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Bladegash wrote:
Wow, beating Metroid without fighting Mother Brain. I gotta see this.
^ funny guy
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence."
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