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hanzou wrote:
Doing 64 shifts would overwrite all of the pokedex with what had been item data
Unfortunately, it's impossible to do 64 shifts. Instead of using the FF marker, the game limits the amount of pokemon you can deposit based on D183, which determines the number of your party (01 to 06) and this address is safe from ZZAZZ corruption.
I don't dare to say that it's impossible to complete the pokedex using ZZAZZ, maybe there's a way to do it, but I support your opinion of not using this glitch. I think what the audience is expecting in a "catch'em all" run is not something like: play the game normally then WTF!? pokedex complete. Gia has already done this in his yellow run, and doing the same without save corruption is pretty dumb IMO.
Mukki wrote:
I monitored the Snorlax flag in the memory (D7D8) while doing the skip and it does not change. The game must still think that snorlax has not been fought and so it must be entirely sprite related.
Strange, maybe the fight and the removal of snorlax have different flags? I don't know. Feel free to test this.
As to the run I was getting bored with weeks of route testing so I decided to just get started last week since the route is pretty much settled up until vermillion at least (and probably as far as the safari zone).
Nice to hear that ^^
Deciding what is faster or not is much easier once you have the movie done and not only ideas. Good luck with the run.
Also, I have a question about Trainer-Fly, if I glitch a Gym Leader fight and defeat him, will I get the badge after that? It's probably useless, but it could help Thomaz with his unassisted run, SDA is not likely to accept the ZZAZZ glitch...
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More Trainer-Fly stuff, guys.
If you look at CD2D-CD2E a moment before you fight a legendary (Zapdos, Moltres, Snorlax, ...), you'll see that CD2D changes to the species of the pokemon you'll fight and CD2E will be its level. That leads me to the conclusion that, apart from storing the data from trainer battles, these addresses also tell the game which legendary you are to fight.
That clarifies things a little. When you do trainer-fly, and CD2D has the value of a trainer, then you'll battle a trainer. But if it has the value of a pokemon, the game thinks you'll fight a legendary and starts a wild battle instead.
From here on, it's just assumptions, but this is the best I could think of. ^^
When you fight a legendary, the game has to get rid of the pokemon, which is a missable object, or else you can fight it again.
So, when you battle a legendary, the game makes a missable object in the area you are disappear, if you go by the rules, this will always be the legendary pokemon.
However, when you do trainer-fly, you can visit other areas, which may have another missables (for example, Snorlax), which are stored in memory, and are never overwritten unless you pass through areas that have another missables. Then, when you do the glitch, the game assumes you're fighting a legendary and will make it disappear, and if it finds data related to to Snorlax, it'll kill it.
There! Glitch explained.
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gia wrote:
try Bill
Worked
http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1953412070/bill_trainer_fly.vbm
Very well, I think I'm starting to undestand the Trainer-Fly glitch better.
Normally, when you walk into a trainer's sight, they notice you and the "!" sign pops up, in this moment, the game kills your buttons, starts an event "an NPC is going to move" and changes the values of addresses CD2D-CD2E, CD2D corresponds to the type of trainer you're about to face (youngster, lass, gambler, etc.) and CD2E tells the game which trainer of that type you'll battle. For example, you'll fight a Lass, but there a lot of Lasses in the game, so if this value is set to 09, the game knows it has to load the pokemon data for Lass #09. OK, after it does this, it makes the NPC move to you, and when it's finished, the game stores in memory "a battle will start in (area you are in)" and loads the values from CD2D-CD2E, when the battle starts, these bytes are overwritten with the opponent's stats and are no longer needed.
However, some players have the bad habit of flying before the fight, what causes the trainers to notice them but never get the chance to walk to them. Thankfully, other events in the game cause NPCs to move (another trainer battles, the guy in Pewter, Bill, etc.) In its ingenuity, the game still thinks you're about to battle the trainer from a while ago, and when the NPCs finish moving, it stores "a battle will start in (that area)". When you go back there, it tries to resume the battle loading the data from its usual addresses. However, these bytes no longer have the same values, CD2D now has the Special of the last pkmn you fought and CD2E its attack modifier. If CD2D corresponds to the hex of a pokemon and not a trainer, the game will think it's a wild battle and take CD2E as the pkmn's level.
About the movie, I died from poison to restore my buttons, but it's possible to do it with change box/reset too, and I faced a wild pokemon for the simple reason of changing CD2D-CD2E, so that I didn't fight the jr trainer.
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The guy in Pewter City is only removed if you defeat Brock. If you don't do this, he'll remain there for the rest of the game. Using him means you'll have to fly to Pewter as you perform Trainer-Fly, since your menu will be disabled after that.
The only other auto-walk events I recall are the Oak dialog at the beginning and the cutscene where you are taken to the Hall of Fame PC, but both of these can't be used. Besides, the event in Pewter seems to be unique, since you can bring up the menu after the text messages, while you can't do this in the others.
EDIT: I remember you can skip the guy that stops you in cycling road when you don't have a bike with a similar technique, maybe that works for Trainer-Fly purposes?
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Dying from poison also restores your buttons, but the area will remain glitched and you'll still need to battle a trainer to trigger the pokemon encounter. And if you walk next to a trainer and he notices you without walking to you, your game will freeze.
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OK, it's gonna take quite a while for me to examine Mukki's route and find possible improvements.
Anyway, here it goes:
Q1 - I haven't tested to see if the formulas apply to pokemon above level 100, but I don't see any reason why they wouldn't work.
Q4 - The best place is probably on Cycling Road, on a trainer you're fighting for Trainer/Fly purpose, or in Koga's gym.
Why aren't you considering getting exp from E4 or high level pokemon? I mean, you'll have to fight them anyway, and, if faster, it'll be more entertaining than feeding a chunk of RCs down their throats.
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wazkatango wrote:
This has a lot of detailed info on 'M.
http://trsrockin.com/dex_m.html
Most likely it would mess up important parts of the game relating to the run
The page you supplied has a lot of useful information.
I don't think the parts 'M scrambles are important to the run, the 128+ on the sixth item is actually useful.
To start off, it messes up the hall of fame PC, which can't be accessed until the game is finished, and looking at it is unnecessary anyway. Depositing it causes some harm, but you just give it one rare candy and it'll evolve to a Kangaskhan and you can deposit him. The sprites only get glitched if you put 'M in a battle, which isn't necessary, and you can fix this by looking at a normal pokemon in your team.
Snake wrote:
Isn't a "Catch ALL pokemon" run is impossible?
I mean... You can only get ONE starter... And one of the fossils.
Or do you plan on getting these trough glitches?
Whats with the pokemon that only appears in the specific versions
like Growlith in Red or Magmar in Blue?
In a "glitch-free" run, yes it is impossible, because you'll need to trade from other games and go to a Nintendo event to get Mew. However, due to a couple of glitches in the game (namely, Trainer-Fly and the Old Man), it's possible to get all of them.
About the version exclusives, their data is on the game where it can't be caught. It just can't be accessed without abusing the glitches.
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@Thomaz
45 parts isn't bad at all. My biggest problem with segmented runs is because SDA apparently has something against zipping all videos into one file =P.
While some things in this thread might not be useful for your run, others like how to level your pokemon up fast may give you a hand. Good luck!
@tymime
thx for telling me it's 'M that evolves to kangaskhan, I suggested catching it because it'll be necessary to fight a glitch pokemon to get lots of rare candies anyway, and catching and evolving it is probably faster than running from it and catching kangaskhan later.
Why wouldn't you recommend this?
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A complete pokedex non-TAS speedrun?
Don't you think it might have an excessive amount of segments?
If you do it, you'll get my maximum respect, it'll require a lot of luck to get the right DVs to trigger some pokemon. Glitching 100+ masterballs is mandatory IMO. I remember having to reload a savestate around 60 times when I was trying to catch Mewtwo without one, and he was in red health and asleep. And there are those Safari Zone pokemon, that always run away...
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I tried to imagine an FFT TAS, but the more I think of it, the more I hate the idea. At the beginning of the game, get Ramza to yell around like an idiot until he has enough JP to reach Calculator class. When he reaches, haste him and get a mediator to raise his faith to sky-high levels and start yelling again. Use JP Scroll glitch to get Holy and Flare, and from this point, you manipulate the enemies levels, exp or whatever to hit all of them with a single Math Skill. And of course, after you've seen 2459 yells and neverending ownage from Holy/Flare, you get as a bonus infinite unskippable cutscenes.
What a pity. It's such a great game.
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Ten hours?!?!? dude, don't exaggerate. There's a run on SDA of 4:45. You're right though. Using only weak abilities is not the purpose of a TAS. I've been convinced. Tactics sucks for speedrunning T_T
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I said I'd love to see it because it took me days to finish the game the first time I played, and I wanted to know if it could be finished super quick. While I was posting, I remembered the completely broken skills such as Blade Grasp, Two Swords, Math Skill, and how Orlandu was like Chuck Norris in that game. That's why I suggested using only weaker classes like Knights or Monks and only their exclusive abilities. There's an FAQ on GameFAQs about the Straight Character Challenge, which makes the game a lot more difficult.
Blaise is right, the JP Scroll glitch completely destroys the game, but it doesn't work on some classes.
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@mukki
OK, I get it now. You'll only do a "complete pokedex" run.
Usually, 100% runs in RPGs means completing the main quest and all the sidequests. In pokemon's case, the main quest would be getting all badges and defeat the E4 and the only sidequest is completing the pokedex. Getting all items is unnecessary IMO. I just thought that since getting 151 pokes is a planning nightmare, you'd go for a 100% right away. Still, don't you think the money from Brock may save some trips to the shop? I totally agree with you on not getting the certificate and not using ZZAZZ.
In your route:
"Nidoking will be the pokemon of choice throughout this run, so another will have to take the poison (unless status conditions such poisoning a poison type, freezing an ice type, burning a fire type fall under the 1/256 accuracy glitch? I don't know I've never tried...)"
I guess you're referring to the 1/256 miss glitch, where all moves in the game, even the ones that were supposed to always hit have a slight chance of missing. If you try to poison a poison-type, the chance of success is an exact 0%. Also, bear in mind that entering a building cancels WtW, so instead of depositing Nidoking, you'd have to make it faint beforehand if you want another one to take the poison.
I have some suggestions:
1. I don't know much about missingnos, but a friend of mine reported that he caught one and it evolved to kangaskhan, could this save some time?
2. Manipulate your lvl100 poke to have a special that corresponds to a high hex, so you can let ditto transform when you catch it.
3. I'm 90% sure that in-game trades can do the name thingy glitch. It should be faster than going to the old man.
4. About the Dratini problem, you could catch a high level Mewtwo and use it to kill other high level pokemon so that Dratini gained exp.
5. I think Exp. All can be used in the E4, but only if you have 2 pokes, have more and the messages will take forever.
Can't wait to see WIPs from you. ^_^
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First time ever FileFront worked for me...
I'm glad someone is going to retake this project. It saddens me that this thread has been inactive for more than one year and half of it is about getting or not getting a stupid diploma.
I've just started reading your route. You wrote:
"* travel through viridian forest
* glitch nidoking
* exp underflow to lvl 100
* buy 5 pokeballs
* skip boulder badge"
IIRC you can only do trainer-fly in Viridian Forest on the Yellow version, also, I believe that it's better not to skip boulder badge, because I think since this would be an 100% run you should get all badges. And the extra money would also be good.
I think you should contact primorial#soup and ask him the details of the route he had planned, this should help you out.
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I'd love to see a Final Fantasy Tactics speedrun. It was one of my favorite PSX games. Though I think it might be too boring to see spells raping everything all the time.
To make it more entertaining, we could do things like playing the game only with weak classes.
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I think that in order to understand ZZAZZ we must first understand Trainer-Fly in general. I haven't found yet a reasonable explanation to why the game loads the special stat and the attack modifier, or why it makes missable objects disappear. I have discovered that if you talk to people, read signs, etc. Instead of the usual menu pop-up you'll get text messages from the trainers that are on the route and fight them (sometimes more than once).
I also tried dying with buttons disabled a long time ago. All I remember is that they are restored but the area continues glitched.
About the corruption in ZZAZZ, I think it has something to do with the money you receive from a trainer fight, money is stored in decimals, not hex. Maybe the glitch makes the game go nuts when it forces it to load data it doesn't support.
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I think the option is grayed out because you haven't loaded the ROM. Before trying to play the movie, go to File -> Open ROM and select the ROM the movie needs.
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Excellent assumption gia! I tried restoring FF, and I could glitch the inventory with special 252. First, I sharked the game to give me 7 pokemon, didn't crash, then 8, didn't crash, then I tried 9 and 10, didn't crash either. Then I thought about putting FF at the earliest possible non-gameshark spot, which is the first item in the bag, in other words, an empty inventory. However, I needed a pokeball to get out of the battle, so I deposited every item I had except one pokeball.
Battle starts, I use the pokeball and get an empty inventory. I didn't even fly, when I entered Lavender's pokecenter I got a message " fainted" then after a few steps another " fainted" and after some more "REPEL's effect wore off", but my game didn't crash, so I could happily go to the PC and get 255 items.
To test this, I used the only save state from my 252 run that I hadn't overwritten, I think it's the one where I tried growling ditto to see what happened. Don't know if this affected the results. Anyway, it shows that the glitch is possible.
Having an empty inventory means I can't get 118 pokeballs from 'M like I did in my previous vid, but you can always glitch a missingno. on your way to ZZAZZ.
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To run movies, first load the ROM. Then go to Tools -> Play -> Start playing movie...
In that window, select Browse and find the .vbm file, then press the OK button and it will start playing.
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Hmm, I didn't know the pokedex data was after the pokemon party. Didn't even bother to check it. I haven't tested special 254, I'll do it as soon as I can.
gia wrote:
I finished a test run using Vermillion but didnt "do" the run since the save glitch was way faster, video is on youtube i think
I checked your YT channel, but didn't see this vid, can you give me a direct link?
gia wrote:
what about doing it with 2 pokemon, after glitching deposit 3 so that the pokemon counter rolls back to FF and be able to use the party menu to switch and overwrite the items counter.
The byte that determines the quantity of pokemon in your party is never changed. When I deposit pokemon, the game lowers this value by 1 and when it reaches 01, it won't let me deposit anymore.
gia wrote:
So first what causes the crash, a pokemon fainting from poison is what I remember but it could be an incorrect status value
The game only crashes because when poison damages you for the second time, you still haven't restored the FF byte in your party. As I said before, when I have 2 or 5 pokemon, I can walk around taking damage without crashing the game.
EDIT: Thanks a lot for suggesting special 254, it worked perfectly, I could successfully spawn at the Hall of Fame in a test run. Although I played at normal speed the entire game, my luck manipulation was poor and my route was random, I still beat primo's published TAS. I recorded the end: http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1717827811/pokered_zzazz_glitch.vbm (VBA v19.3)
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Rofz wrote:
I need help really badly. I have the exact same ROM that was used in Biospark's 100% Metroid Fusion run, and still it doesn't work. I have VBA version 1.7.2 and 1.8.3 beta, but it still doesn't work!
To run movies, you need the re-recording version of VBA, the normal one won't work. The movie you want to play needs v19.3. Find it here:
http://www.bluetoaster.net/emu/all.htm
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I've been messing around with the ZZAZZ glitch on Pokemon Red, here is what I did.
I used the Gambler west of Lavender to trigger Trainer-Fly and after restoring my buttons I fought a Ditto in the grass east of Fuschia, letting it Transform into my lvl100 Kadabra with special 252. Then I went back to Lavender to face "death-trainer".
Here's what I found out:
(NOTE: This is for Red, and Special 252 ONLY, I haven't tried the other values.)
The glitch overwrites bytes with the hex value 99 in a fixed pattern. It overwrites two bytes and spares the third one, overwrites two bytes and spares the third one and so on. In its way, it changes data from your name and your party, which explains why you have Zs, Bulbasaurs, Explosion, level 153 and some of your pokemon get poisoned (all of these have hex value 99). The overwriting always starts at address D07A, and ends in a random place (it's around D249 though),I think things like your current location, Ditto's attack modifier, and the last pokecenter you healed affect this.
Anyway, to stop the game from crashing in Red you must have a party of two or five pokemon. Why? Because the pokemon you have in your party are stored like this: the first byte shows how many pokes you have, the others are their species, and the last one is an FF (null) byte. For a party of five, it would look like this:
05 P1 P2 P3 P4 P5 FF
The first byte is always spared, so after ZZAZZ it will be like this:
05 99 99 P3 99 99 FF
My experimental results show that the game will never crash if the null byte is preserved (didn't test walking around until poison kills me though). However, since the byte shift trick requires the FF to be gone, we will never be able to glitch the inventory.
The only way I see to avoid the crash with the null byte overwritten is not to get your pokemon poisoned. So, the questions I have are:
1.What does D07A do? Perhaps knowing this could give us a clue to why the corruption starts there.
2.Can we manipulate ZZAZZ so that it wouldn't overwrite the status ailment addresses, thus avoiding poison?
3.Can we get a value other than 99?
4.Why Pewter City stops you from taking poison damage in Yellow? WHY, JUST WHY?
EDIT: I used gameshark code 01997AD0 to change D07A to 99. I ended up getting $9999 money from every trainer I beat. I suppose it controls the amount of money you receive after winning a trainer battle.
