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fsvgm777 wrote:
I noticed the blue rectangle (which indicates the visible area) can extend beyond the limits (red area) to eventually the part that displays the game itself:
(for the record, this also happens in feos's encode roughly 10 minutes in)
Not sure if that can be fixed, though, as this was with the most recent version of the script.
EDIT: Well isn't that fan-flipping-tastic. I now have BizHawk crash at complete random when trying to dump with the map script, resulting in the AVI dump being invalid. If this continues, I have two choices: Either I publish without an alternate encode with the map script, or I outright drop it.
BTW, have I mentioned the Lua script makes the emulator run at 15 FPS? (okay, that's not fmp's fault)
EDIT 2: Sorry, but I'm dropping it (until I can somehow get a full dump with the map script without the emulator crashing, and I have no idea what's causing the crash in the first place). Maybe someone else will have better luck.
The blue rectangle clipping out of the red area is technically correct. There's not really a good way to show those map wraps. If you don't like it extending onto the game, you can change MINIMAP_X to a larger value.
Sadly, 15fps is a marked improvement over the original 3 fps of the script. Pinkus had some ideas and prototypes for a full 60 fps, but I have no idea what he actually did and haven't heard from him in a bit. He also said it would need some improvement to actually look good.
I'm sorry about the map script causing issues. I did make a couple changes after feos' encode (which I assume is the script you're using), but I don't think those should cause any problems that outright crash. If you have any trace logs, I'll take a look and see if there are further improvements to the script.
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Neato burrito. Thanks for the judgement, Memory.
I’ll be doing a commentated showcase of this with Josh (who recently got the RTA wr) this Friday around 3:15pm EST on Speedgaming 2 as part of the Objectively Better Categories Marathon.
Also live commentary on a shorter TAS for a category called “Delete Ganon” at 2:30pm and a filler segment around 11:30pm where I’ll just be TASing something while people banter on and take breaks just to show the process.
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I'm going to echo the preference of lowest score over pure speed, but I don't think such a goal change would necessarily change the impressiveness of the gameplay.
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electricslide wrote:
Personally, 100 percent for me would involve all dungeons, all bosses. Lots of other games here use this standard. The purpose of 100 percent is to show off more of the game. When games get broken, we lose parts of the content. Is getting all the items really part of the content of this game?
Dungeons are considered beaten when you obtain the dungeon prize or, for the cases of Agahnim's and Ganon's Towers, defeat the respective Agahnim. All dungeon prizes are obtained, and both Agahnims are defeated. By objective metrics, all dungeons are completed.
All permanently killable bosses are killed. By this tautological metric, all bosses are killed.
electricslide wrote:
Is getting all the items really part of the content of this game?
Please reread this question until you understand why it answers itself.
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Label name doesn't matter that much to us. Maps, compasses, big keys, and small keys are all not part of 100% for the same reason here: they're not actually connected to any dungeon. When these items are collected, they just get marked for your current dungeon ID. In fact, you can fool the game into thinking you've collected multiple big keys with a single big key by grabbing it in cave state. In that sense, they're about as generic as rupees. Unlike crystals and pendants, you could obtain the same dungeon's map multiple times this way.
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feos wrote:
The crystals imply that the pendants were maxed out. We require that no glitches are used to max out the pendants, and they are legitimately maxed out in this movie, so the crystals legitimately imply the pendants. By checking the crystals you make sure the pendants are fine, because we ban glitch use that advances you in terms of full completion.
I have no idea what this means. Crystals and pendant collection are tracked separately and the display for them in the menu is based on whether or not you’ve advanced to the final quest state by killing Agahnim.
If the semantics of the community-decided goal are really going to be a problem, just call it a playaround like 2021M.
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The method for heart pieces is toeing a gray line, but I think the important part is that the game thinks we're in a specific room that can be provably shown.
As for upgrades, the only real reason is the tedium involved. It's a sentiment shared by both the RTA community and the people discussing the game on this site's forums. I think it just hurts entertainment too much to extend the run by over 20%, most of which would be Link standing around and talking. If I consider them in my head, I don't think anything would even change route-wise. I think we'd buy an extra blue potion in the witch's shop and collect more rupees during plaid world. There'd be a long visit to the fairy before ice palace, and then we'd fake flute again inside ice palace for another 900 rupees, visiting the fairy again. In that regards, I see it as similar to Spider-Man: Shattered Dimensions. While the upgrades do increase our capacity, we wouldn't ever make use of it.
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Nice! That looks a lot better than I anticipated. Noticed an error with some layer changes, but managed to fix it. Also managed to get hacky for bush and pot changes by looking at DMA transfers. Also fixed up a couple colors for things.
https://pastebin.com/nAxq1YLR
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I'm with Creatus. I completely skipped the autoscrollers myself. The stuff I did watch was pretty cool though. If this were exactly the same as the NES TAS, I'd probably have voted "meh", but I think it was different enough for me to say I was entertained. It was sort of a "suspense" factor. I didn't read the submission text until after watching, so I went through most of the levels curious about what you'd do next. I mean, I did know what you were going to do, I just didn't know exactly how. I think that's what kept me watching, and I might go back at some point to rewatch it without skipping the autoscrollers, just to see how you goofed off.
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feos wrote:
The full completion definition for this movie is quite vast and complex. Was it made sure it perfectly meets our rules on full completion?
Movie Rules wrote:
A clear consensus is required on what constitutes full-completion.
Some games reward the player for something internally defined as maximum completion goal.
Sometime full completion requirements are explicitly mentioned in the game instructions.
Full completion can only consist of optional one-time, irreversible, or otherwise strictly limited accomplishments that can be objectively measured and maximized.
Conditions that are imposed unofficially by players are only eligible if they originate from fundamental game-play features.
Community agreement is required when defining newly invented full completion goals, or if existing definitions need to be revised.
Yes. All items obtained are, by the game's design, one-time actions. With no percentage counter, this definition was created by the ALttP community, where there is (probably) unanimous agreement that this is what full completion is.
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feos wrote:
So if we call the currently branchless movie "in bounds" that wouldn't be enough? The main questions seems to be, are there major glitches (avoided there and used here) not related to OoB at all?
Transition corruptions like somarias and YBAs are technically in bounds on their own, but banned in the NMG ruleset. While it's a mouthful, that pretty much covers the bulk of what would be disallowed when combined with "No OoB".
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You’d have to ask Tompa for the exact answer, but it was mostly that it was made before we knew any of this stuff. It’s basically what the game’s run just was, but it encompasses what we would consider today as “No Major Glitches”. It avoids any type of “major” clipping (not clipping anything bigger than rails basically), exploration glitch, transition corruption, door glitch, screen wrap, or wrong warp. As far as I know, it only intentionally avoided EG and stair shenanigans.
There are glitches this TAS does do that you would see in an improved NMG TAS. But, as I said, they just didn’t know this stuff. Subsequent WIPs of this game were made during a weird era of categories, and no real definition of “Major glitch existed” until Yuzuhara came and drank some potions.
EDIT: With regards to what Memory said about a TAS allowing them, I’d personally say no. NMG is the definitive category for this game. On top of that, the gameplay difference is night and day.
EDIT: Sorry. you’re not Maria lol
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That fat fairy check was just me doubting myself, which happened plenty of times over the project.
I'll definitely try to fix up the script more, but the main issue is that some small overworld minimaps have weird display. Of course, those same screens happen to be ones where we're not doing anything fancy, so a messed up display isn't as big of an issue.
Thanks for the responses, and I'll be sure to post an improved script if we can make one.
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We might be able to get something that works. But I also don't want to cause any delays for something like this.
EDIT: I also see what you might have actually meant. I was thinking of something different. The bad camera on large overworld screens should be a bit easier to fix. But the ugly collision map on small maps is also a problem (at least IMO).
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feos wrote:
fmp wrote:
Try this
EDIT: may have mucked up the colors a bit, but whatever.
Doesn't seem to work correctly on the overworld.
Hooray! Another post for me. It "works" on the overworld, but the overworld collision is different, so we had to adjust it a little. I'm trying to get Pinkus to help improve it, but neither of use really understands the array enough (from what he said, I gathered). He literally just translated the disassembly to Lua, but he did it with a massive overlay in mind. Another part of the problem is I have to manually define what tiles to display for collision and colors.
I'm still looking for solutions and optimizations (so the encoding isn't a pain). This game is just a mess that's sort of annoying to work with.
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fmp wrote:
neo_omegon wrote:
I'm wondering if it might be faster.
Early Gold Sword/Silver arrows without flute (by Blank_42)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqXQ8l6J2Gk
But I enjoyed it a lot. Easy yes vote from me.
As I have an experience of tasing this game, I'm impressed by not only a variety of glitches, but also more optimized movements and small improved routes than I had made. (e.g. Eastern Palace to Sahasrahla's house)
And I'm really looking forward to Yuzuhara's new project and fmp's as well, if any.
Flute beat it out in testing overall.
Okay, this has been bugging me ever since this post, and I've been strongly doubting myself and my original testing.
So I decided to optimize it myself again, and was able to reach fat fairy 287 frames faster. That by itself sounds pretty bad, but then the problem with this route happens. The tree is a limiting obstacle on where we can place the mirror portal. The lowest Y pixel we can place it at ... blah blah blah explanations, has us exiting the pyramid with a Y coordinate of 07B0 or 07B1. And then you're just stuck. In RTA, this is corrected by re-entering the pyramid fairy, letting you exit slightly lower. Re-entering and exiting cost me about 350 frames (and this might increase with the extra stuff spawned by the fairy herself).
Sorry for the extra post, but I just had to get this off my chest, and it's relevant to the run's optimality.
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Try this
It only shows the collision minimap, scaling to the window and being shown in the game margin. Did some sloppy optimization as best I could, but it mostly runs at 15fps or so.
Thanks to Pinkus (helgefmi here) for having the initial collision code written and for helping me convert it here.
I'm not sure if we can capture lua dialogs to AVI, most likely not. Can this map be drawn on top of the game screen, with a little shade maybe? Or in extended bizhawk screen, with client.SetClientExtraPadding(int left, int top, int right, int bottom)?
I don't see why not. My question is what the exact demands are for the script. I have since improved it with a collision map, but it only works for the primary underworld. If enough people find it helpful, I can finish copying collision code for the overworld and layers and include a super map for the secondary underworld. Though, at this point, I'm wondering if the super map is still warranted.
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neo_omegon wrote:
I'm wondering if it might be faster.
Early Gold Sword/Silver arrows without flute (by Blank_42)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqXQ8l6J2Gk
But I enjoyed it a lot. Easy yes vote from me.
As I have an experience of tasing this game, I'm impressed by not only a variety of glitches, but also more optimized movements and small improved routes than I had made. (e.g. Eastern Palace to Sahasrahla's house)
And I'm really looking forward to Yuzuhara's new project and fmp's as well, if any.
Flute beat it out in testing overall.
My next actual submission is probably a long ways off, but should eventually be Klonoa: Empire of Dreams with EZGames.
My next TAS is already completed. There's a "Weird LTTP Marathon" late next month that will be hosted by Speedgaming. I have a short, not-fully-optimized run called "Delete Ganon" that I'll be commentating over.
(for the record, this also happens in feos's encode roughly 10 minutes in) Not sure if that can be fixed, though, as this was with the most recent version of the script. EDIT: Well isn't that fan-flipping-tastic. I now have BizHawk crash at complete random when trying to dump with the map script, resulting in the AVI dump being invalid. If this continues, I have two choices: Either I publish without an alternate encode with the map script, or I outright drop it. BTW, have I mentioned the Lua script makes the emulator run at 15 FPS? (okay, that's not fmp's fault) EDIT 2: Sorry, but I'm dropping it (until I can somehow get a full dump with the map script without the emulator crashing, and I have no idea what's causing the crash in the first place). Maybe someone else will have better luck.
