Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11287
Location: RU
Vaultable max score requires the game to be completed according to our general rules, but this is a sports game so it has an additional requirement.
Mothrayas wrote:
The [sports] game must have a meaningful ending point with meaningful completion criteria.
If in order to progress and clear the game, there is no requirement to do well, or not even to not fail at each sport, then I do not consider that meaningful completion criteria.
In sports that depend on a variety of environments or situations, such as golf, completion can be defined by clearing every environment or situation in the game.
With this game, you don't need to clear anything, it doesn't matter how sloppily you play, you still get the same result all the time.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11287
Location: RU
Even if there's such an event, infinite gameplay loops are banned from vaultable max score. Which means you can have a proper max score run that just avoids such techniques.
http://tasvideos.org/MovieRules.html#MaximumPoints
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11287
Location: RU
I think IMDB's system is the best.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0111161/
Press the Rate This star to make the 10-star scale appear, you pick one whole star, done! It shows up as n.m, but you don't have to invent arbitrary meanings for fractional points! Just like with actual movies, you lump every factor together and rate the entire thing at once. Also just like with movies you'll know anything above 8 is worth taking a look.
I don't know why we should reinvent the wheel here and pretend we know the world better than those 2 million people who feel they understand this movie rating system.
adelikat wrote:
I just wanted to say that Radiant is very likely correct.
I wanted to learn how to examine the DB and actually check if this is how everything is, but never got around to it. Could someone with DB access figure this out?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11287
Location: RU
So true
[2:54 AM] Woops: I was lazy today
[2:54 AM] Woops: gonna fix it tomorrow
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11287
Location: RU
Since 5.0-11318, MMU must be explicitly enabled for TASes.
Go to Config -> Advanced and tick Enable MMU.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11287
Location: RU
MESHUGGAH wrote:
BizHawk 2.2.2 + NesHawk, no follow cursor, q binded to turbo
Holding the turbo button while focused on TAStudio decreases speed. The easiest way to test this is loading up a slow (in performance on your computer) core and trying to hold turbo button while you focused BizHawk and then the same with TAStudio focused.
I already have 40fps, turbo on TAStudio 22fps, turbo on BizHawk 40fps.
(This isn't the "mouse over TAStudio slowing stuff".)
Should be fixed in interim.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11287
Location: RU
Memory wrote:
First one can be done real time in the same time quite easily. The second is a bit more complex since you have to build up enough speed to get a jump and then end on the other ramp but it's not too hard to get a similar time.
Honestly it doesn't sound like a major problem overall. For a game with no ending, treating each level as its own mode is incredibly iffy. I think playing all the content in this case is saner than excluding a single event.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11287
Location: RU
I'm totally for 2P!
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11287
Location: RU
LooneyTunerIan wrote:
Graphics Debugger will not show up when I load a SNES Game.
Works for me. What core?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11287
Location: RU
You mean the old posts I made don't explain why we prefer clarity (of regular full completion) to ambiguity (of max score)?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11287
Location: RU
FatRatKnight wrote:
A "soft maximum" score is also unclear about whether the top was reached. So, why the phobia of a score metric? Generally the whole idea I was pushing in this thread is to allow for the possibility of obsoleting another TAS by a higher score. I can answer one facet of the mentioned phobia already -- How to handle the possibility of some new-discovered "Endless Scoring" technique that break the "Soft Maximum" environment?
We spent a ton of time and effort on brainstorming and the best solution is implemented in the current rules. Any technique that leads to infinite gameplay loop delaying completion indefinitely and scoring indefinitely, is banned, no matter when it's found.
The ambiguity phobia was explained to the best of my ability on this page:
http://tasvideos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=19596&start=25
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11287
Location: RU
Memory wrote:
"Worse" performance ends the first level slower. The goal of the first level is to rack up as much points as possible within 10 passes across the center of the half pipe. This movie ends this level as quickly as possible by making small jumps that don't earn much score. It's possible to bail enough times that you end the level but don't gain any score, but this is slower. The second level is completed seemingly as poorly as it is allowed (minimal height on the jump and then ends the level by jumping off their board on the other side.
How trivial is it to finish those 2 levels ASAP?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11287
Location: RU
I think it should be about maximum clarity of the definition. "Max score where there is no known score limit" is unclear by definition, and that max score can always be beaten. Completing "all X" is clear, non-arbitrary, easily verifiable, and so on and so forth.
If we know there is a total of 100% items in Super Metroid and one gets all 100% of them, it has non-arbitrary fullness to it. But if there's no known limit to possible score, the score you'd be getting would be unpredictable, not proven unbeatable, and in the end it'd be some arbitrary number. Just like the final movie time.
In a situation where we can clearly and predictably define fullness, we prefer that. When we can't, we allow max score that doesn't have a known limit. We can't allow "unpredictably high score" on exactly the same rights as any other full completion goal. There's arguably more relative fullness in $1.3 million than in $1 million, both giving you the best ending, but there's no absolute fullness in either if you simply count by score alone, because there may be a way to get higher score.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11287
Location: RU
Sounds like a mere playaround to me.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11287
Location: RU
FatRatKnight wrote:
I disagree.
Well, okay. We have an ending available based on having sufficient score. That I don't disagree with. As far as targeting best endings go, we're going for fastest completion of reaching this score threshold then the ending. We're no longer measuring this goal as a score metric, we're measuring it as a time metric, as targeting the ending means it's impossible to obsolete it with a longer time, but higher score.
I have a personal disagreement that a score threshold ending takes priority as "full completion" over maximum score.
The Best ending goal doesn't have to be related to scoring, it's just one of the standard full completion categories we've always allowed for Vault as long as it actually represents some fullness. It does in this case, so there's an acceptable full completion definition already. Which means we don't have to go for max score to have a vaultable full completion publication.
If you disagree with that then you also disagree with
There is no other way to define full completion for the game, because there is no way to collect or complete "all X" for any given criterion, aside from fastest completion.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11287
Location: RU
WarHippy wrote:
Here's a link to more info about the game. Apparently there is a Best Ending at $1,000,000+. Not sure if that would disqualify it for max score.
At 5:53 in the encode it looks like he shoots a health canister which means he can't get the secret bonus at the end of the level.
Best ending is a good variation of full completion, and in this case it happens to be score oriented as well. Playing further would make the goal arbitrary indeed.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11287
Location: RU
Radiant wrote:
simillarian wrote:
Lester waits until you are on his side of the pool to drop down and ends up behind you when you get the jousting pole on the 5th pass. The only way I found I can change his position that drastically is by stopping at the lip and waiting for him to catch up, which would make my 5 passes take longer.
Sure, but the movie rules allow you (in fact, encourage you) to use a higher difficulty level even if it's slower. Higher difficulties are usually slower but may lead to more entertaining runs.
There's a difference between being just slower yet harder, and showcasing more impressive prowess with this harder difficulty. If it's just more of the same content, higher difficulty doesn't make much sense.
Memory wrote:
So this game essentially composes of multiple events. Performing poorly in some events like the first two allow you to end them quicker. In a couple of others, completing them quickly is considered performing them well. However, no matter how well you perform, the game doesn't appear to treat it any differently. You always move on to the next round. If you lose in the final jousting event, the only difference is that the word lose appears and you get less score. You then reappear in the skate shop same as usual. According to the movie rules:
Where applicable, the movie must reach an ending screen that positively signifies a game is finished successfully. Reaching a game-over screen is not considered beating the game. If a game shows the same ending screen regardless of success or failure, reaching it is not considered successful completion.
Is this completion?
You could say this movie completes all new content according to endless games rules, but is this completion if the game does not care about how well you do in the slightest?
Individual events (Downhill and Jam) certainly can be considered non-trivial in that they have a clear goal: complete as quickly as possible. Compete all does not have such a clear goal.
How poor does performance have to be to end those 2 first levels ASAP? How much faster does it end them compared to this movie? Regarding the last level, I'd argue that the game is indicating that you failed to complete it.
In general, if all levels are optional and some of them are too trivial to fastest-complete, they can be excluded from an any% movie that just plays the levels sensible to speedrun. This comes from the fact that having all levels as optional makes them all kinda separate modes, and those can have individual branches, yet we prefer to have an all-in-one movie for those. And some modes don't make sense in a speedrun, so they wouldn't become branches, therefore they wouldn't make sense in an all-in-one movie either.
Then there can be a branch that tries to maximize the overall score as long as there's no other way to define competitive full completion for this game, so that might play "complete all".
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11287
Location: RU
RationalMonkey wrote:
Is there somewhere I can file a bug report / feature request? Auto-adjust Input according to Lag does not work. That would be very convenient.
There's a ticket already, with no one to implement it.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11287
Location: RU
I don't have time to read and understand what was improved but I watched it in hawk and it looked quite nice. Yes vote.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11287
Location: RU
Awesome stuff!
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11287
Location: RU
So, if they can't enjoy TASes, it makes little sense to target them with our youtube content.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Experienced Forum User, Published Author, Site Admin, Skilled player
(1238)
Joined: 4/17/2010
Posts: 11287
Location: RU
Nach wrote:
most young children probably won't understand them
That's what I think. If a child understands TASing, that child knows how to access the actual site beyond youtube and how to pull off ACE in SNES games.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
