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naruko, you probably have BBCode disabled in your forum profile, or just in the above post. To make forum tags (like "quote") work, you need to enable it.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Personman wrote:
I would like to cast my vote for publishing the "shortest input" version of this run. That's always been more interesting to me than drawing a fairly arbitrary line about which point in time counts as reaching the ending. Watching an ending play out by itself also adds a unique and pleasant flavor, especially when the input endpoint is displayed in the encode.
The exact point when we consider the ending has occurred may indeed feel arbitrary. But if the basic ending routine doesn't change, every run that reaches it can be clearly and unambiguosly compared to another.
Another important aspect:
You can potentially delay the ending indefinitely with your shorter input. We wouldn't want t to watch a 10-second movie that makes the game end 10 hours later.
But you can't indefinitely speed it up in your ending-based movie. There's only so much you can do to end the game faster, and it gradually gets harder and harder to come up with new timesaves. You can't make it happen instantly.
And you can't indefinitely delay movie end to make the game end faster. After some point it becomes unnecessary.
So in terms of obsoletion criterion, ending-based movie is clear cut.
I think for this game, judging movie optimality by when the game ends is a better idea.
Jigwally, does this game have any kind of consistent in-game timer, even if it's just in memory and not displayed anywhere?
FractalFusion wrote:
Video (with music ON)
While the no-music version is not particularly enjoyable in terms of audio, I didn't feel like music improves the experience. It's hard to really hear it behind the constant sound effects, and it's not even that great imo.
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If we keep calling memory-corrupted full completion legitimate full completion, the full completion definition becomes moot with every newly discovered more powerful memory corruption technique, that would potentially gradually reduce the category to just hacking the full completion metric directly. So clarity of the goal blurs.
It may or may not remain entertaining. But I don't know accepted examples of hacking the main metric of a category to appear true in terms of formal statistics, but not intended in-game mechanics. Even for entertaining non-full-completion.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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If you're skilled in TASing and you enjoy working patiently, staying focused, and being helpful to others, you might be interested in becoming a TASVideos Judge!
Here's a post that talks about our requirements in details:
http://tasvideos.org/forum/t/21833
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
It very much resembles the memory manipulation for crystals in the original trilogy of the crash bandicoot games, which have a few tases with this kind of manipulation already.
Can you provide more details on this instead?
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ryse345 wrote:
feos cannot appear the name in super C because he has no contribution, no any frame is related with feos, could this player of thick face be cooperator?
That's a silly accusation and I already debunked it. Using Koh1fds's example movie, I figured out everything necessary to make that glitch work and implemented all the input for it. I changed Xipo's last level to make use of that glitch and made him the primary author in my submission. I also kindly explained how it works to Xipo. He improved it even further and never asked my name to be dropped. But then, after a few years, suddenly it became a crazy problem. Interestingly he never replied to the explanation I provided there. Welp.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Acumenium wrote:
Yo Venom, who's "we"?
ZakatosMyselfBrunoVisnadiNxCyKung KnutSamsara
This proves you're not reading the threads you try to bring controversy to. But to still keep things controversial, you're reading selectively. And then forgetting what it was.
Acumenium wrote:
And yes, "known minimum" is the definition of arbitrary.
Arbitrary:
- based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system.
Why?
We make these movies because they are entertaining to watch, and because we are curious how far a game can be pushed. The process of creating them is also a form of problem-solving and challenge to our intellect and ingenuity.
If a child receives a box containing an expensive toy as a birthday present, it's possible that he'll enjoy the box more than the toy. This is creativity. We're doing the same for these games. Instead of walking on the paths created for us, we create our own paths, our own legs and so on. And we're not listening to people who say "you can't do that!". Just like children.
Both "jumping with the shortest height possible whenever prompted to jump" and "jumping as few times as currently known to be possible" are both arbitrary goals. Actually, one may argue the former isn't, as it has a clear answer (especially if it is disallowing entering walls/etc.) whereas the latter does not, meaning it isn't an inherently personal whim or random choice but within a clearly defined system.
The same logic would apply to make "walkathon" not an arbitrary goal as it has a clearly defined goal.
Being obsessed with a single word won't help you make a point. Because, as Samsara explained already, "arbitrariness" is not even our primary criterion when accepting new branches.
Samsara wrote:
For new branches, we want minimal content overlap, i.e every published run of a game should be significantly different enough so that people never feel like they're watching the same run twice.
Acumenium wrote:
You cannot tell me with any seriousness that the wait-in-walls/ABC challenge had a serious poll where the people who voted thought it meant a poll for entertainment when it is a boring ten minutes of waiting inside the floor waiting for enemies to finally move
As with any entertainment based poll, the goal is to let people express their subjective feelings and tastes. If they like the run and they find it different enough from existing branches, it's published. That's all.
Acumenium wrote:
almost every comment is defending the run's right to be submitted rather than a single comment on the actual video.
It's true, most of the time the polls aren't actually understood by anyone voting.
Stop pretending you know what people think. Stop pretending your ignorance and selective reading prove that things you don't know about don't exist. Most of the posts I linked above talk exactly about whether or not the movie was entertaining. And the ratio of people entertained is about the same as in poll votes.
Acumenium wrote:
Why didn't the aforementioned SMB3 video get Moons, though? The Judges took it upon themselves to ignore the results of a poll that had the over 80% ratio that is supposed to mean Moons?
No. The question is where are you seeing 80% of anything in SMB3 GEG.
Acumenium wrote:
The poll needs to actually matter and be concise. Is it a "should this run be accepted" poll, or is it "was this entertaining"?
It was "should this run be accepted" in 2004-2012, and it's "was this entertaining" since 2012.
Acumenium wrote:
Why is the poll used as both?
Because some people subjectively like to use it as something it isn't. And there's no way to order them to only use it as one thing, because it's impossible to enforce, and we don't want to pretend that we can know their thoughts, in advance or after the fact. We assume good faith. The only thing we do not allow regarding polls is having multiple alt accounts to mess with statistics.
Acumenium wrote:
When the Judge randomly decides to ignore the results of a poll or to change what the poll means, why get annoyed when people are saying "Yes vote, should be submitted. Not entertaining"? They're the ones muddying the waters and complaining that it's muddy?
So far you're randomly hallucinating reality again, conveniently accusing others for things you didn't properly verify.
Acumenium wrote:
Yes, the wait-in-walls/ABC run was already accepted, but using the same logic that accepted it, this run should be, too.
This movie is an impressive technical achievement and while it wasn't unanimous, it entertained a large majority of the audience (75% approval, 8% disapproval).
This submission has 21% approval, 65% disapproval. There's no way to apply the same logic to both and end up accepting both based on that logic.
adelikat wrote:
While it is an atypical goal choice, it is one that has clearly defined rules.
Furthermore, the publication demonstrates many techniques that other publications do not offer, and distinguishes itself in gameplay from those other categories even for the general audience.
We now know that polls do not matter whatsoever for entertainment (comments for the wait-in-walls/ABC run weren't particularly positive, most just defending its right to be submitted) if the Judge does or doesn't like a video.
Stop blaming judges for your consistent ignorance. Most of ABC SMB posts are in favor of the movie.
And there's no such thing as "right to be submitted". It has never been a thing and I'm seeing that phrase for the first time in my life. You can submit absolutely anything that is technically possible to submit, but not everything will be accepted and published.
Acumenium wrote:
So the next question is, do past runs impact what future runs may be submitted? If so, objectively, this run needs to be accepted, as the polls not only do not matter but a run with a literally arbitrary, everchanging goal was accepted.
Oh, that's a new accusation. "Everchanging", huh? It has been "fewest jumps" from start to end, pretty consistently. And no, most of the audience didn't agree with your stance that ABC is arbitrary. Deal with it.
This is the last time I'm doing your reading homework. This is the last time I'm wasting time on deconstructing your nonsense accusations. Enough information has been provided. If you can't work with information, stop participating in discussion that require reading and being logical.
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brunovalads wrote:
I agree with all these facts, but I still vote yes because it's still the fastest completion of the game, so it's very Vaultable
I know it's vaultable, and it is fastest completion. Is this movie entertaining because of that?
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Gameplay gets old after a minute because it's so simplistic and never changes. Music is sad and slow. Graphics look like it's the same level for 7.5 minutes. Bosses instantly die from mere spam. Voted No.
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I don't know this franchise at all, so I watched this side by side with the original game. And I think gameplay quality is up to par with the original, even if there are no obvious new gimmicks. Different level layouts mean it's a different game/mode, so it's not a problem. Also there's no hack of this game this movie would have to compete with, so I don't see a problem with publishing a hack people support.
I watched it in the emulator with the green char colors and got confused, but the video with default palette has now been uploaded and I agree that it looks much better. I support replacing the movie file with the one that uses the default color scheme, because it syncs anyway.
In terms of personal entertainment, DKC just doesn't meet my tastes on how games sound and look, but I still see that this is a high quality hack. Subjectively voting Meh.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
The discussion was precisely about whether or not people got entertained by that other run, and about clarity of the goal. Most people were entertained, and most people considered the goal clear. Therefore it became a new Moon branch.
Acumenium wrote:
It had "Yes" votes because of who submitted it.
I already called you out on mindreading several times, you ignored it several times, and you're doing it once again. Stop it. Don't hallucinate reasons for people to give their votes on something. Collect actual data of what they say and how they explain it, and use that instead. Because you're assuming they're not honest, which means you're not honest yourself, or you're in denial of the reality you don't like.
Moreover, saying the audience is biased because people just personally like the authors completely disregards what happened in their previous submission.
Acumenium wrote:
The key difference is that Masterjun's SMB3 is not an arbitrary goal---the poll and thread were to determine Moons, which it, for whatever reason, got.
Stop hallucinating reality and presenting that as an undeniable proof that your uneducated opinion is the only one that's right. Start checking things you claim to be real. I called you out on that as well in the other thread and you decided to just move here with similar nonsense.
Acumenium wrote:
The SMB1 arbitrary jump amount got Moons due to votes because people saw HappyLee and SMB1. The actual thread no one commented on its interest factor---because there just isn't any, it's literally waiting in a floor for just over half of the run.
Should this run in this thread be accepted?
Yeah, if the arbitrary jump amount one was, and it was.
We've spent several pages explaining to you how it works and why "known minimum" is not "arbitrary number". You've lost that argument there and you're repeating the same nonsense once again in a different place. Stop it.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Warp wrote:
Although one could question why it's necessary. I think everybody understands that certain degree of civility and good manners is to be expected. I highly doubt that someone scours such rules pages with a fine tooth comb and if they don't find something explicitly forbidding "hate speech", they take it as sign that they can freely engage in it, but if they see the sentence there, they will abstain from doing it. Forbidding something in some rules page isn't really any sort of deterrent.
It's a bit like saying "murder is not allowed here". Well, duh. I think that's clear to anybody without having to explicitly state it.
It's not how this works. People who care read it and act within those rules. Those who don't, get reminded and warned. And if someone ignores explicit mod warnings, they get banned.
New freenode staff removing the part about hate speech from their rules is not the main and only reason for us to move away. It's a combination of factors that clearly shows the new trend. The part that convinced me something is very very wrong is this document linked in the OP: https://fuchsnet.ch/freenode-resign-letter.txt
Then I literally saw a certain IRC channel I've been in got hijacked and... canceled... for mentioning "libera.chat" in its topic. Similar to what DeHackEd describes. If we add "libera.chat" to the freenode version of #tasvideos, we will lose it too. Does that look like freedom of speech to you? Have you even read https://fuchsnet.ch/freenode-resign-letter.txt?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Warp wrote:
Where your principles start playing more of a role is if you are offering a public forum for people to express their opinions, but then silence opinions you personally don't like. The forum might be your personal property and you may have 100% the legal (and even moral) right to ban anybody you want for whatever reason you want, but your banning actions reveal your attitude towards other people's free speech. If two people, other than you, are having a conversation in your forum, the conversation is relatively civil, no insults and threats are being posted, no illegal material is being posted, do you intervene if the conversation is about topics you abhor? Do you have an attitude of "this is my forum, owned by me, I decide what topics are allowed", or do you have an attitude of "as long as the conversation remains civil and legal, I'm fine with the expression of any opinion, even if I personally don't like it." Do you defend their right to express their opinions, or do you want to restrict what is being discussed in your forum because you don't like certain topics?
I guess I have to repeat my question, because we do offer a public forum which has rules that are relevant to this discussion.
Warp wrote:
There is no "implicit endorsement of hate speech". They either endorse it or they don't. Show me where they endorse it and I'll agree with you. Removing some BS social justice language from some random policy page is not endorsement of anything.
TASVideos appears to have similar rules. Are they also "some BS social justice language"?
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Warp wrote:
There is no "implicit endorsement of hate speech". They either endorse it or they don't. Show me where they endorse it and I'll agree with you. Removing some BS social justice language from some random policy page is not endorsement of anything.
TASVideos appears to have similar rules. Are they also "some BS social justice language"?
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Why is it a valid branch and why should it obsolete?
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Acumenium wrote:
Super Mario Bros., like many NES games, likely has an ACE vulnerability in the form of a DPCM attack
Does it even have DPCM samples?
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So is TASVideoAgent being moved?
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Memory wrote:
However, this segment has an implicit assumption in it that menus etc. will not affect gameplay. This is frequently not true. While I see no issue with ignoring simple time differences between versions, if a movie is well optimized in terms of gameplay but has improvements in menuing, menuing should be seen as an improvement. Allowing one to freely delay the start of a game in order to manipulate RNG would be a bad precedent to set.
This segment should be edited at some point to reflect this.
We've had a staff talk and agreed that it should be updated:
http://tasvideos.org/diff.exe?page=MovieRules&rev=425&prev=424
If this movie was submitted alongside the current publication, we'd need to figure out which one improves more. A fair cutoff here is the movie length alone. And the only exception to judging it by movie length is when the ending actually occurs later. As long as the ending occurs sooner, it's also fair to improve menuing and whatnot.
If we don't allow that approach, then we implicitly allow menuing to be sloppy or delayed arbitrarily, as long as in-game time remains short. This really gets in the way of record keeping.
For Moons stuff it can be argued that a more complicated game deserves in-game improvements too, but even then, it's only if we can find those improvements.
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Zinfidel wrote:
- No memory cards (Slot A/B/SP1 all set to <Nothing>)
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Not participating is fine, I think it's just fair to keep you as a co-author, especially if no one is able beat your times.
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What's the right memory card setup for this run? Desyncs for me in the first level.
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But you saved a ton of time!
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HandsomeRudy wrote:
I guess it's my turn to fail now.
I discovered something that needs further investigation. Keep it delayed.
Wait this post used to link the new movie that I already used as a replacement, now it just says "keep it delayed". Is the work still being done?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Sonia wrote:
By the way, will it be possible to change the NeoGeo Bios [URL=https://imgur.com/Sb9qFoK]like in mame[/URL]? The default European one isn't good because some games are censored (example: Metal Slug having white blood). I know it's possible to change it if you mess around with dipswitches, but other Bioses are already uncensored by default (plus allowing the games to be played in different languages).
Implemented!
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
