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Also please add sync instructions as movie annotations http://tasvideos.org/EmulatorResources/LibTAS.html#DocumentSyncRequirements You can upload the fixed movie to http://tasvideos.org/userfiles/my#uploadfile and post the link here.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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There was a long chain of events that led to the current situation. In Thread #14601: Movies labeled "glitched" that shouldn't be a few users agreed to go back and change all branch labels, including obsoleted movies, according to some new system they came up with, without getting a proper community consensus. That resulted in https://i.imgur.com/J0WfHmC.png https://i.imgur.com/fizlbWn.png and other funny branches that made the staff team interfere and have a proper discussion: Thread #15203: "glitched" label vs. "no x glitch" label. Staff agreement was to stop using blank branch as an indication of any%. But community still halved on how to handle branch labels, so I suggested a solution that didn't blindly follow either side, and didn't force the other side to accept what they hated. I suggested to rely on statistics, and to replace the "glitched" label with something more descriptive. Major skip glitch (it's when we invented the term too) is not present in most games, and it's not a regular in-game option, so it's a rare thing in general and it needs to be labeled. But there are games where most movies use such a technique, for example SM64. So we just highlight which branch has unique goals: [2062] N64 Super Mario 64 "70 stars, no Backwards Long Jump" by Jesus, Kyman, MICKEY_Vis11189, MoltovM, Nahoc, snark, sonicpacker, ToT, CeeSammerZ, coin2884, Eru, Goronem, Mokkori, Nekuran, Nothing693 & pasta in 42:58.52 stands out from all other SM64 branches by avoiding BLJ. Similar cases: [1937] Genesis Sonic the Hedgehog "no zips" by Aglar in 17:36.58 [2950] GBA Sonic Advance "Tails, no Ultraspindash" by GoddessMaria in 13:33.54 [4057] NES Mega Man 2 "zipless" by warmCabin in 27:16.17 Some people were still unhappy, but the final thing we could do to reduce annoyance was creating a flag to unambiguously signify what the site counts as any% under our tier class rules: http://tasvideos.org/FastestCompletion.html So we actually don't use blank label for anything special. It's only left blank if there's no unique goal in a movie compared to other branches. Which is why I suggested to call it a trunk. It makes sense because there can't be 2 current publications with blank branches for the same game: to be able to distinguish them from one another we need to label one of them, or both of them, depending on rarity of their goals. But when we applied the new system, we did not update labels for obsoleted movies initially. Not that leaving them wrong was the goal, we just didn't get around to doing that until some years later. So what's happening with Aria of Sorrow is obsoleted movies not being relabeled to match the new (as of 2014) system. Movies with major skip glitches should be labeled to tell the nature of the glitch they use (not the glitch name, just its main effect on gameplay). Probably it's just "warp glitch". To me it's common sense to assign explicit labels to things that are unique, and to things that choose common options (like player count). Of course that will result in branchless movies not having goals in common across different games, because different games allow different goals, and the result may look inconsistent. Now "inbounds" became a label because it was a unique feature of the branches that have it. Even if there are several such branches for some game, it's still only featured in minority of branches. In the case of AoS, most branches use zips, so we don't highlight that. One branch uses death warp glitch, and we highlight that by its gameplay effect. And 2 branches ban zipping entirely, so we also highlight that. I hope this explains some wonders. If there are ways to improve the current system considering those past problems we used to have, I'm interested! And it's absolutely true that the system that was introduced after this thread was created is absolute nightmare: http://tasvideos.org/PublisherGuidelines.html#Structure Just (IMO) not in terms of labeling glitches. That part I at least understand and can easily explain how to apply.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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You need some regex help, but I don't know regex.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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How big is it if you 7zip it?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Post subject: #tasvideos IRC logs
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Does anyone have those? Ideally going as far back as possible, and with minimal gaps. I wonder if people just wiped everything related to freenode,
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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An important question is: why does the goal make sense? I think it makes sense because it fully relies on in-game options (not just settings but modes). NG+ is one of them, character choice is another. If 2 movies that are entertaining and similar don't have the difference in those in-game options, I'm not ready to accept them to Moons. Rejection would indeed feel discouraging IMO. We can cancel it for now and then uncancel and rejudge when the rules are updated. And I'd still want to look at a rule draft before doing anything with this movie, because I need to understand what kind of direction we want to be going with movies like this. It's not only about save anchor, but also about character choice on top of that. Simon's rating is rather solid, even though feedback in the submission thread mentioned that it still looked repetitive, just short enough not to get bored. I think this movie looks crazier. Is there a way to play some other mode as Simon? What are people's opinions on obsoleting Simon? Personally I think, if we're going for Simon as a separate branch, he really needs to do something different to showcase why he's a great char. Ideally he would avoid this spam attack, so some tactics could be involved and the spirit of the original game could shine. Then it would make perfect sense to have him as a separate movie by regular Moons principles. Until then, I would obsolete Simon.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Go for it!
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Samsara wrote:
Correct. There's a bit more to talk about with AoS branching, but I'll bring that up in the relevant thread.
Should I wait with unobsoletion and rebranching then?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Samsara wrote:
[1478] GBA Castlevania: Aria of Sorrow by Kriole in 20:58.62 also avoids OoB glitches. I feel like if we revive all souls, this run should similarly be branched as "inbounds".
So only those 2 branches would be inbounds, and all the runs they obsolete?
Samsara wrote:
"warp glitch" should also be rebranched to GEG, but that's not relevant to the discussion.
Done!
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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It's a Moons-only branch so it needs to be different enough from existing ones. If it's not, it either obsoletes Simon or has to be rejected (feedback is really lacking so far, even tho the run is very well made).
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Samsara wrote:
They're all related, but different enough to warrant the usage of separate categories in my opinion. Both zipping and the death glitch allow you to go out of bounds, but death glitch allows for a lot more freedom in where you can go. Basically, loading certain "rooms" out of bounds will crash the game, which limits how powerful zipping is as you're always going through room transitions. Death glitch completely disables room transitions, allowing for essentially unimpeded map traversal, including through OoB areas that would otherwise crash the game since they're not being loaded. Death glitch and zipping are both used in the published "all souls" movie, where Kriole's movie avoids them completely, and the routes differ drastically between the two runs.
Sounds like we want to resurrect it as "all souls, inbounds", with that label, so it's clear that it's a special limitation? Are there other branches avoiding OOB? And how does the warp glitch compare to those 2 other glitches?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Movement is very different from [2455] GBA Castlevania: Harmony of Dissonance "Simon, Boss Rush, Hard" by Robert_Ordis in 07:51.27, but bosses are killed in a very similar way and die almost instantly, and that's basically all this mode has. While it's cool to showcase Simon, I don't know if these two movies are different enough to co-exist in the end. Will need much more feedback that there currently is!
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Fortranm wrote:
That being said, if ending sequence disruption is permitted for games where the ending doesn't even update the save file, shall [2725] SNES Final Fantasy VI by keylie & KadMony in 3:11:39.46 be moved to be branchless with the current branchless movie rebranched to be "glitchless" or something similar if applicable? This is assuming the ending sequence of FF6 on SNES isn't meant to have effects. I don't know enough about this game to tell if that's the case.
I don't know the game either, but the judgment for #4790: keylie & KadMony's SNES Final Fantasy VI "game end glitch" in 32:54.55 said the ending in GEG was fixed so it needs to obsolete "sketch glitch" which didn't have a proper ending. We need more details on why it is or isn't proper. And if it was fine all along, it looks like [2725] SNES Final Fantasy VI by keylie & KadMony in 3:11:39.46 should obsolete [549] SNES Final Fantasy VI by erokky in 4:05:52.87 which avoids one significant glitch but not another and is not rated well?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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If you randomly hack the save file and make the result mandatory for a movie sync, that sounds like simply submitting a video file with no explanation how to recreate it. Even if you can't get a certain save file directly from gameplay, there should be some description on how exactly to tweak it so it makes the movie sync. Game genie codes are just strings of text and can be preserved in a bunch of ways, for example directly put into submission description. Completely unrecreatable save files can't be pasted as text. And there's even little to verify whether it's worth accepting (by a team of game mods) because you don't even know what is there and what was changed.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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http://tasvideos.org/Guidelines.html#DoPossibleResearch Looks like the human record wasn't checked, because it uses Save & Quit to get back to the starting point and save a whole bunch of time on walking. Overall still slower due to human execution.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Is it still available anywhere?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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duuuuude5 wrote:
It allows for movies that break site rules but are still very entertaining, such as freeruns/glitch showcases, or also movies that start from a hacked, unverifiable save file or use game genie codes to create interesting or funny gameplay.
By unverifiable do you mean unreproducible? If you can't explain how you got that save and it just has to be preserved or the run would desync, that sounds like a bad thing to allow.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Fortranm wrote:
But what if the 2 versions end up obsoleting each other and there is no "active" NES movie left? It definitely will be messy to "label each arcade machine differently", but there are only so many that are based directly on a home console that is well-emulated enough so it will be far from doing it for each arcade engine. Moreover, as most of the games, at least in the case of VS. (and PlayChoice-10), are directly based on games from the corresponding home console, it is much more likely for one who looks for movies of those games to check the home console movie list page first.
How many of those games are actually identical between Arcade and NES?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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jlun2 wrote:
I agree, but at the same time I really hope this doesn't lead to some games basically with no full game TAS and only individual level ones (with perfect RNG that would otherwise not be possible if full run due to luck manip time loss).
I think having a lot of IL submissions makes a full run more probable, and better, compared to having ILs banned.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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"no clips" sounds very good, but I still need to watch the current 2 movies. The current pub would be a weak Moon until a "no clips" submission happens and obsoletes it. Crash41596 what do you think?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Posted!
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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jlun2 wrote:
Maybe make a new category for communities of that game to judge themselves? Most of the games have very little community, so this problem would be concentrated on a relatively small number of franchises. If one game community wants to accept a flood of meme runs while another doesn't, probably just let them decide.
Agreed. If it's just a platform for community content, let that community handle it.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Arcade machines have a lot of variations and some of them are similar to home consoles, but labeling each arcade machine differently will result in complete mess IMO. Having all VS games as Arcade makes the most sense to me, and then they can be linked from the NES version runs.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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This is clearer indeed, and I don't have enough gaming outlook to recall games where the main menu has tweaks to the same global mode. I'm afraid there may be, and since we're switching from hard rule based approach to guideline based, it's better to have some helpful list of things defining the spirit of our rule: things that make a mode make sense to be its own branch regardless. Things to look for when we're not exactly sure. Things that make it obvious it's a separate mode. Known example is when a mode is a separate level set.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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arkiandruski wrote:
In short. I don't believe Dragon Gate Glitch by itself is enough to warrant a new branch, but Dragon Gate Glitch plus the skips mentioned in the previous paragraph would be.
Is there a way to unite them under some common name? Major skip glitch has to be a single technique that skips a lot, rather than many different ones that skip a bit.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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