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Odongdong:
Music moves were in NES warped toads. I'd wish that feature to become a TAS visiting card, a trend.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Okay, I built it myself, and have 2 nitpicks:
Some DLLs are still outside dll folder, also backdrop checkbox and user color aren't remembered on debugger exit.
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zeromus wrote:
feos wrote:
I couldn't find a backdrop color change menu for SNES. It's a critical feature for sprites and maps comunities as they have to hack savestates.
look harder. in the graphics debugger dialog. after r3505
Last build from EmuCR at any operation with backdrop color:
http://pastebin.com/rgNWkr70
Also gamedb folder didn't exist.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Are you going to improve the movie?
EDIT: Watched now. I was pretty disappopinted that you didn't redo level 2 and the tunnel. But though the former still looks okay, the tunnel race looks just empty. Also you didn't do any "music moves". Entertainment: 6.5.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Last message to me from Zlomus was from 1.10.2012. Also, he isn't working on bug submitted here, once he gave that link, he started investigating the Reset bug (which was very unlikely to reproduce really, due to code specifics). I'll write him on YT, but I guess he was meaning the movie I linked, as it was fixed by me to contain 1 more frame. And I keep suggesting adding MESHUGGAH. I'll ask him about that too.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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sack_bot wrote:
it means the tas that would of hapend if it wasn't for THAT glich
And what does THAT mean??
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I couldn't find a backdrop color change menu for SNES. It's a critical feature for sprites and maps comunities as they have to hack savestates.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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FractalFusion wrote:
This run is the NES Battletoads TAS that never was.
What does it mean?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Archive.org already seeds all our torrents, correct me if it doesn't. Or only new ones?
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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AnS wrote:
feos wrote:
We would anyway have to draw them somewhere, I suggest it to be level border.
That's still rather arbitrary way to draw a line. Can you explain why skipping a whole level is different category from skipping the whole game?
I try to set my opinion basing on what actually happens on the site. Most of the runs we have already have rather obvious solutions on whether they are Glitched or Primary. But when we have those cross-goal obsoletions, things may happen far not the way the author would intend. And to avoid disappointments, we HAVE to set the barrier. So, I recalled the situations in the Glitched runs we have and tried to work out AT LEAST something certain.
I'd be glad to see other suggestions.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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So you say that the Glitched branch must become Primary for the runs that have the former? In this case any side branch should just avoid the "banned" glitch, automatically showing more of the game, than they would normally, if the glitch wasn't be improved to skip to the end.
But I'm against situations that actually kill a gameplay branch. It's like rejecting Aglar's "no zips" run for using things that LOOK like zips. Instead of being rejected it was accepted with a note: "next time avoid ANY zip-like tricks". That still keeps the well optimized run public. But some impressive TASes were obsoleted with a note: "if you want to improve this run by its real category, make sure to avoid X" - which reduces the awesomeness of the site content, that looks unreasonable to me (reasonable would be obsoleting one awesome GLITCHED run by another less awesome but faster GLITCHED run).
Also, removing one ambiguity (same glitch obsoletes same glitch) we introduce another, even worse:
MUGG wrote:
What comes to my mind now is what should a new any% run look like. It would need to forgo all the glitches related to pausing & quitting*?
__________
* By pausing & quitting at the correct time, you can take one item to another level.
This can be used with Mushrooms, Fireflowers, Carrots, Starmans, 1-ups, bubbles, checkpoint bells, goal bells, pipes (either direction; using a downward pipe leads to the famous pipe glitch as we know it). The previous movie used the pipe glitch to skip levels and used a checkpoint bell in moon zone 1 to skip some of moon zone 2.
Since apparently the pipe glitch is banned for other categories, what about all the other related glitches?
Banning the trick with the bubble would kill the other out of bounds glitch (bubble glitch in conjunction with object-loading glitch). It would probably not be used anyway.
The author loses the idea of what he is allowed to do to keep the fastest gameplay run valid. ANY TRICK might appear to cause game end. If it was used in a gameplay-based run in many places for some LITTLE benefit, banning it would result in this: You need to JUST REMOVE the new-banned trick to restore the category. Now as we now that ANYTHING can appear to cause game end, it may kill the interest in actually TASing anything. Because you are never sure what would become game breaking in future.
Here we get a situation, when while no gameplay improvements are found, the Prmary category misses at all. No one would redo a run just to avoid ONE trick, not succeeding in improving the very run. Finding a gameplay improvement motivates people to redo runs. Not discovering that the old trick is banned.
And still we need a rule when the skipped part is considered TOO MUCH for a Primary category. Megaman might skip literally EVERY level from the beginning. Would it still remain Primary? Or a judge must set it to Glitched and propose NOT SKIPPING levels for a Primary branch? Then it wouldn't differ too much from some of the OBSOLETED runs (besides subpixel optimisation).
So I think the "same glitch" clarification has too many pitfalls for actual TASers, while the opposite has lesser pitfalls for judges. And if we don't need creating pitfalls for our players, we must discuss everything related to that problem.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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creaothceann wrote:
Maybe as a mouseover text?
Genius! I doubt anyone would want 2-byte numbers in hex editor, so this must be enough.
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We just reached the borders of the glitched category with some runs (the decision was to erase them at all for some SPECIFFIC situations, that killed the "fastest gameplay" branches). And because these borders weren't at all defined, the site lost its main category for several games. We would anyway have to draw them somewhere, I suggest it to be level border.
About suboptimality. Low glitch like "no zips" may be a goal very well. No one sais "avoiding zips is at all suboptimal", because there already is a run that USES zips. The same with Default category. In the glitched run author may use something to reach the most possible effect with some glitch, but in the "fastest gameplay" run he could use the same glitch UNDER the goal borders. It'd be very easy to set the goal properly when you have FINE branch borders.
Just read what happened to SML2. Even the author lost the idea of what's now allowed, because the stuation is much more complex, than just USES X/AVOIDS X.
Post #259158
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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trlky: You might be interested in discussing this topic.
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I didn't see the staff's ideas on the new site design/system/cource written anywhere, so I'll just post my own thoughts.
We have recently ran into several cases of weirdness, that was caused (how I see it) by the will to make the judgement of the TASes less vague. And the site admins went a certain path that seems a bit unwise to me. Though, it looked like a case that just must be inveastigated from the long-term goals perspective. What MAY that technical clarity cause in future? How dangerous is it?
I'm talking bout those obsoletions, where a certain game-breaking glitch, that cuts the most gameplay off the run, was enough reason to obsolete the full-gameplay run, that also happened to use the same glitch, it just wasn't known to cut that much back then. This looks rather reasonable and fair - from the technical viewpoint. The old usage of that glitch is considered suboptimal, thus the whole old run is suboptimal from that moment. This happened to several gameplay-based TASes, that were obsoleted by the Glitched branches.
A WISE obsoletion system is what represents the face of the site, and of the TASing as a form of art. Thus I suggest to keep the "fastest gameplay" goal totally inviolable for any game that actually has that branch.
This really rises a complicated question: how to judge cases where the same glitch that was used here and there, still not breaking the game, now breaks to the ending or something like that. I say: let the goal resolve everything! After all, we still don't have a clear definition on when the branch actually becomes Glitched. It was obvious in most cases, BUT not in all. And in some it may even make us kill our own site's awesomeness.
Let's keep one-level breaks as still the "gameplay-based" boundaries. RockMan is a perfect example, when the player is moving on the razor's edge between gameplay and glitched branches. Still it is a default branch, because it actually plays and beats the game. If the player breaks through MORE THAN ONE level at once or ALMOST ALL levels in similar fashion - it is a glitched branch. I can't recall any exact examles of that, most of the glitched runs either call the ending from the middle of the game, or screw the very game so much it all becomes a broken toy, that is still beaten sucessfully.
And we have to ignore the TYPE of the glitch used to break something. If one glitch allows to call the Level End or the Game End, it shall be allowed in both branches, because it is ONLY ONE of the aspects of the gameplay-based run, while it really becomes the heart of the glitched run. Such approach would never let us lose the TAS records face, always keeping the gameplay optimisation in the proper, easy-to-find place.
I'm also suggesting to unobsolete the runs like any% SML2 or 4:21 Chrono Trigger - their defailt branches can only be obsoleted by a better optimisation or better glitches usage, that won't still step over the gameplay goal. That concerns the fastest Battletoads as well, that WAS really a run that represents the TAS art via both aspects: gameplay optimisation and glitches.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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AnS wrote:
feos wrote:
TAS is about testing actual choices.
Indeed, it is about comparing actually accomplished choices. But until the choice is only in your mind, you cannot test it, because you lack the information and processing power to emulate it for certain.
You apply to reality the best choice you come up with in mind. If it does not provide the result you want, it's experience would anyway be considered, as after applying it you widen your mental outlook. After all, you wouldn't test DYING every frame in a game you need to win just for the sake of experiment. Because common sense tells you it's stupid without any tests.
The aspect that makes life more complicated is that you have to WAIT for second chances. However, it's not stupidly random by itself, so it implies you had enough time to analyse the new experience and change the actions to change the outcome.
What I really believe in, is that in future we could study the true ways to achieve things never supposed to happen in reality (free levitation and stuff). Once we have an idea of some "impossible" ability, and put enough effort to think it over from the very depth, it might move from "impossible" rank to just "very hard". After all, no one knows what is REALLY impossible, and what just seems impossble for now...
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Just discovered this game. And bumping the thread with no stuff from myself, but someone might be interested.
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DaTeL237 wrote:
You cannot predict every situation, so you cannot make the best choice in a TAS sense.
You don't know whether a lottery ticket is the winning one, you don't know whether you'll be happy with person X, etc. With TAS tools 'the right choice' amounts to the best outcome instead of some choice that incorporates all kinds of factors (risk)
I meant discovering the best way to "actually act" by deep analysis of possible further developments. When you can't DECIDE what option of behaviour to choose for some PRESENT problem. Just imagine them all and develop in mind until the result guessed by common sense is obvious. Even if the situation makes you say to yourself: "WTH, I don't even!" - keep developing it. This is how TASing works. TAS is about testing actual choices.
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You don't need tools to TAS your real life. Just learn the complete lesson from every imperfect situation you get into (may require several "tests" if you're not that good learner) and it will repeat to allow you to do all perfect next time.
Thinking over all the possible versions of potential behaviour (until it's obvious whether the path is good or bad) helps a lot too. In every tiny task I get, that's unknown to me, new in any way, I industriously ask myself, how to do that in the best way. The answer appears, as it does during regular game TASing.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Very good!
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
