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Warp wrote:
feos wrote:
Did I say "hacking the ROM, using gamegenie codes, modify the emulator to work in a way that the console doesn't" is what "anything goes" means regarding Vault?
Then you should word your posts better. 'What if Vault keeps accepting "anything goes", including "preset RAM"' sounds a lot like you are arguing that "anything goes" literally means "anything goes", ie. you can do whatever you want, without limits.
Sorry for using adelikat's common term to describe Vault. After all, none of his forum posts contains this formula. However during plenty IRC conversations, he referred to this exact concept as the meaning of "anything goes" (which he equals to the meaning of "any" branch):
adelikat wrote:
Vault rules say the categories are any% and 100%. The definition of any% in this case is THE FASTEST POSSIBLE COMPLETION TIME. Unfortunately, I have allowed the site to blur that simple definition of any% by having a "glitched" category that is faster than a "any%" category in some cases. I completely disagree with this categorization though. any% should be the fastest movie, then we should have a better naming of movies that forgo major skips/glitches.
The vault absolutely prefers the faster movie, not a (more ambiguous) movie that fails to do a time saving glitch.
So yeah, "anything goes" means whatever goal choice is appliedly faster for a TAS.
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Making all encodes.
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If controller state is used just to roll the routine while idle, it will very well affect the result. In Battletoads it is so, and a run done for 1 plugged controller won't sync if you plug one more.
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Warp wrote:
"Anything goes" does not mean "you can do whatever you want", such as hacking the ROM, using gamegenie codes, modify the emulator to work in a way that the console doesn't, start from a savestate, and so on.
I don't think this is at all a question of tiers.
Did I say "hacking the ROM, using gamegenie codes, modify the emulator to work in a way that the console doesn't" is what "anything goes" means regarding Vault? If I did, quote me; if I didn't, what were you trying to say regarding my question: "how to categorize preset RAM runs"?
Radiant wrote:
if the vote in this thread is any indication, it does include allowing multiple valid hardware RAM states; and if I understand Feos correctly, that should imply that such movies are valid for (1) Vault tier if they're faster than any other run, and (2) Moon tier if people find them entertaining enough.
Right.
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Looks like people are not okay with merging 2 concepts into 1: they want "arbitrary RAM" runs be separate from "untouched RAM" ones. Which introduces a problem with categorization.
If some games allow to abuse RAM being uninitialized, there will be a wide range of results of that. Some runs may be improved by just several frames due to better luck abuse, some may be improved by minutes due to heavy glitching. Some of them are Moons content, which means only what people like will be done (acceptance wise and obsoletion wise), so not to worry too much, but others are in Vault, where it may become an issue: messing around with RAM gives kind of advantage over the runs that were not intending to do it, but would that mean they are obsolete?
Having a special tag is obvious, but what about tiers and obsoletions?
To me it looks a bit similar to "when to end the movie". It ended up putting all the responsibility on the author. So that tweaking the ending won't count as improvement. And thus, cutting out artistic choice won't obsolete the current movie where it was used.
What if Vault keeps accepting "anything goes", including "preset RAM", and for Moons it must be decided case by case? Because if someone dislikes the abused possibility, there might always be a movie with more strict goals in Moons, if it deserves it. If not, be my guest in Vault, where "anything goes" and we can't demand from movies to be of what we like. Speed by any cost.
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Are all improvements done or I should wait a bit more with accepting it?
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If no one moves in and posts how much this movie is similar to the 2P version, I'll accept this as a separate branch!
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Nach is the only way.
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Few have enough courage to wait for years until the absolutely bug-free versions come out. Only those deserve the great right to TAS them!
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Yes, as long as it's not "they obsolete each other to be both got rid of".
>_>
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Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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This submission highly needs more votes and posts! For now it doesn't look like acception...
Personally I'd need clues about why you took so much damage from the spiky ceiling.
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Outstanding. The return list glitching suprised me a lot Oo
The luck manipulation was stellar as usual. Amazing how such an unforgiving RNG can be manipulated so well.
I know it was unintentional, but major style points for glitching Viron's name to V ron. Much cooler XD
I was a proponent of a glitched run obsoleting the published movie. But that is when I thought it would be just glitching a few orbs into the inventory. This skips most of the game. As such, it deserves its own category.
Encoding in process.
However the ratings these 2 have got kind of proves the branches need merging.
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Alba wrote:
This is why I hardly visit this forum anymore, nor did I really get involved with it in the first place; everything becomes an arguement. Why can't people just chill out and discuss things without getting into an arguement over something they'll probably forget in a week?
Going over the edge helps to figure out the edge itself (between geeks and nerds :D). It's just some people learn the lesson, and some can only stagnate in repetition. It's a very interesting place too, when you need to find out something related, or enjoy the real results.
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It's okay, just requirements for hacks to be published are higher here. We can't TAS all hacks, only the best of them, placing them in Moons, and even sometimes obsoleting one hack run by another hack run if people feel like it.
And yeah, when voting for a hack TAS submission, not only the movie quality is being discussed, but the hack itself. Because it's not notable, it won't be accepted.
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Where a game has multiple difficulty levels, it is preferred to play on the hardest difficulty level (for more interesting gameplay) unless the only difference between difficulty levels is enemy/boss hit points, in which case the easiest difficulty levels are preferred in the interest of speed. If the difference in difficulty is inapplicable for your run, for example, you trigger the end game sequence right from the start, then selecting the hardest mode is unnecessary.
There also was #1654: Xipo's NES Ninja Gaiden 2 in 09:14.05 that was rejected despite of being faster.
Here, people didn't prefer the J version of the game, which is easier, even though the run itself is very well done. So I can't quite obsolete the current run by this one.
We can't publish this as a separate branch either, because the actual difference is hardly noticeable for a viewer. There is a movie tagged "hard mode", but it's not about difficulty, it's a second quest.
So I'll reject this submission and will hope the author goes on and improves the U version as well.
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I don't think that this hack carries something new in itself other than pure speed. Levels weren't designed to take maximum advantage of it anyway. Looks just like some fast forwarded Megaman TAS, but with less enemies. Voted No on entertainment and on the hack itself.
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18:57 Mothrayas hi feos, fi adelikat
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jlun2 wrote:
Well, there are 7 movies listed that uses the easiest difficulty. I wonder if any of those cases could be applied here in one way or another.
Yeah, none of them obsoletes the harder difficulty run which is exactly the matter here. If people prefer speed over all the rest (once they didn't), it will be accepted. If they prefer the difficulty (and the U version), I"ll have to reject it.
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Do you think you're done improving it and I can replace the submission file?
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Obtaining those dlls doesn't change anything.
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Looks like it's going to spawn a tight discussion about what gameplay features automatically make this run faster. It's just before, we only were speaking about dialogs or mid-room lag on that matter, since it's the cheapest way and must not be accounted as an improvement. Now, the run kind of deliberately picks the easier version and benefits by time. But does it match the tech level of the current movie? I mean, since the latter uses the harder difficulty, it showcases more tech value unless it misses some improvement possible in the U version.
I was in somewhat similar situation with this movie:
[1930] NES Zen: Intergalactic Ninja by feos in 11:34.21
The previous one used the medium difficulty, and if I switched to hard, my improvements would become uncountable, due to losses in different places. So I picked the same difficulty to know for sure what I improved and what I didn't improve.
However, this run was accepted as a tech and entertainment improvement over the predecessor:
[945] Genesis Gunstar Heroes "2 players" by arkiandruski in 35:28.92
despite of being slower in real time for using the hardest difficulty.
Warning: When making decisions, I try to collect as much data as possible before actually deciding. I try to abstract away and see the principles behind real world events and people's opinions. I try to generalize them and turn into something clear and reusable. I hate depending on unpredictable and having to make lottery guesses. Any problem can be solved by systems thinking and acting.
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Spikestuff wrote:
Hello, Dolan
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>_>
No idea why I did that. I guess I missed the title screen part.
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FRAME WAR
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